Which is worse for your skin ?

starling · 04-06-2013 3:05pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Pay attention.

Do try to actually pay attention to the facts. The poster you're referring to has exhibited much of the same ignorance I was talking about, by claiming that if you live in Ireland, the point is moot.
Skin cancer is so common in ireland because people mistakenly think that there is not "enough sun" to be a problem.
Non-melanoma skin cancer may not be fatal, but that doesn't mean I want to get it. Removal of tumours will leave a scar. On your face. The several people in my family who have had skin cancer would have preferred to have understood the risks and avoided this outcome.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

What facts? 'Stay out of the sun, you'll get cancer, dur!'

No, the facts I've posted. The facts about sun damage, skin aging and skin cancer. The facts you can easily check for youself. That would be facts now, not random ignorant conjectures like "Ireland is likely to be full of people who are Vitamin D deficient,dur."

--Kaiser-- · 04-06-2013 3:25pm

starling wrote: »

Do try to actually pay attention to the facts. The poster you're referring to has exhibited much of the same ignorance I was talking about, by claiming that if you live in Ireland, the point is moot.
Skin cancer is so common in ireland because people mistakenly think that there is not "enough sun" to be a problem.

The poster I was referring to was the one I was replying to, then you come along and claim that no one made a statement, one which I had directly quoted. Clearly you didn't read the post which you replied to. The mind boggles.

Non-melanoma skin cancer may not be fatal, but that doesn't mean I want to get it. Removal of tumours will leave a scar. On your face. The several people in my family who have had skin cancer would have preferred to have understood the risks and avoided this outcome.

Ah, so you have a personal reasons yo your posts. Explains a lot.

No, the facts I've posted. The facts about sun damage, skin aging and skin cancer. The facts you can easily check for youself. That would be facts now, not random ignorant conjectures like "Ireland is likely to be full of people who are Vitamin D deficient,dur."

You seem to be confusing the words 'facts' and 'statements'.

Here's the study I referred to, sample, 94% of GAA players were vitamin D deficient during winter and 74% of athletes deficient in vitamin D after winter. It is reasonable to ascertain from these statistics that the average Irish person (likely to be indoors more than athletes) is vitamin D deficient.

How about a quote from the Food Safety Authority?

Q. Why has this report been published?

The recent re-emergence of rickets (a severe form of vitamin D deficiency causing deformity of the bones) amongst infants in Ireland indicated the widespread low levels of vitamin D in the Irish population. A working group was established to investigate the problem in infants and to publish recommendations based on their findings.

Q. Why has vitamin D deficiency become a problem in Ireland?

Vitamin D deficiency was thought to have been eradicated in Ireland after the Second World War, due to better nutrition. However, over 20 cases of rickets in infants and toddlers have been reported at two Dublin hospitals in the last four to five years. Further evidence is emerging that there is widespread low levels of vitamin D in the general population in Ireland. There are several factors which have contributed to this.

Vitamin D is mainly produced in the body by exposure of the skin to sunlight. However, because of Ireland’s northerly latitude, in the months between November and March there is inadequate quality and quantity of sunlight to enable sufficient production of vitamin D by the body (the current recommended dietary daily amount of vitamin D is 5 µg). Even on sunny days in the winter, the sun’s rays are of the wrong type for the production of vitamin D. In addition, with more people working indoors and using sunscreen when outside, vitamin D from sunlight exposure has decreased.
.......
Dietary sources of vitamin D are not consumed in sufficient quantities to counter the lack of sunlight exposure

Of course, because this doesn't fit in with your beliefs, I'm probably making this up

stretchdoe · 04-06-2013 4:06pm

Why is everyone blaming it on the sunshine and the good times?
What about the boogie?

Legs.Eleven · 04-06-2013 4:14pm

Walking around the city today and the amount of people in this city smoking in the sun!! Ahhh!! Didn't I feel smug slathered my factor 50 and the fact that I've given up the fags over 3 years now! Oh yes indeed.

af_thefragile · 04-06-2013 4:57pm

Sun definitely!

starling · 04-06-2013 6:11pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Ah, so you have a personal reasons yo your posts. Explains a lot.

You've caught me - I am horribly, horribly biased against skin cancer.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You seem to be confusing the words 'facts' and 'statements'.

Here's the study I referred to, sample, 94% of GAA players were vitamin D deficient during winter and 74% of athletes deficient in vitamin D after winter. It is reasonable to ascertain from these statistics that the average Irish person (likely to be indoors more than athletes) is vitamin D deficient.

How about a quote from the Food Safety Authority?

Of course, because this doesn't fit in with your beliefs, I'm probably making this up

There's no need to get insulting here. I will happily accept facts from the FSA and it is true that babies and toddlers are much more likely to be either kept out of the sun or covered in sunscreen by their parents than they were years ago when people didn't realise the risks of sun exposure on children's skin.

However that does not negate the fact that a vast number of people in Ireland don't fully realise the risks when it comes to sun damage. Again, I'm not just talking about cancer here. The thread is more about the effect of the sun on the skin's appearance in general, compared with the effects of smoking and drinking.

I stand by my assertion that educating people about skin damage from the sun is not "scaremongering" in any form. If you don't want to use sun protection that is entirely your right. However lots of people, especially women, would rather protect their skin from both premature wrinkles, other signs of aging, and skin cancer. The benefits of using sun protection outweight the risk of not getting enough Vitamin D, since it can be supplemented if someone tests as being deficient.

Remmy · 04-06-2013 6:29pm

So is it possible to go from the typical Irish complexion to a nice glow (not brown) without paying for it going into later life?

Fizzlesque · 04-06-2013 6:57pm

The sun, I reckon.

My sister is 5 years younger than me, and people always think I'm the younger sister. We both smoke (though, I do regularly quit, was never an all-day smoker and didn't start as young as my sister did) but she has spent a lot more time in the sun than I have, quite a lot more time. She's not great at cleaning and moisturising her skin either, while I am quite diligent in that respect, so that may play a part too. All those things considered, I suspect the sun is more damaging.

starling · 04-06-2013 7:23pm

Remmy wrote: »

So is it possible to go from the typical Irish complexion to a nice glow (not brown) without paying for it going into later life?

Well unfortunately Remmy if the sun changes the colour of your skin, that is your skin being damaged and trying to protect itself from more damage:(
So any tanning is going to have an effect when you get older. It's up to you how much extra aging you're willing to accept for a bit of colour now, and to be fair, the whole fear of wrinkles etc is a bit much IMHO....a fair amount of it comes from women's fear of looking "old" because we are told that "old" means "unattractive".
That's not necessarily true; I know some blokes who say, for example, that if a woman has a few smile lines they automatically find her more attractive because it shows that she laughs a lot. OTOH if someone has a lot of frown lines, it kind of suggests they frown a lot, though we're not talking about an exact science or anything here

If you really want colour, but want to avoid damage as much as possible, i'm afraid the only truly safe tan is fake tan, just like the only truly 100% safe sex is no sex.
And just like abstinence, fake tan is not a lot of fun and not everyone wants to go with that option:)
My own personal opinion is that I cba painting my whole freaking body for other people, I don't care if I glow in the dark:pac: Pale is not automatically unattractive, paleness used to be highly valued in ladies, so it's one of those "standards" that changes. Just like how society changes its views on what body size and shape are best. So how much a person wants to strive for whatever ideal of beauty, is up to them, an it's fine until they take it to extremes COUGHPatriciaKrentzilCOUGH

starling · 04-06-2013 7:26pm

Fizzlesque wrote: »

The sun, I reckon.

My sister is 5 years younger than me, and people always think I'm the younger sister. We both smoke (though, I do regularly quit, was never an all-day smoker and didn't start as young as my sister did) but she has spent a lot more time in the sun than I have, quite a lot more time. She's not great at cleaning and moisturising her skin either, while I am quite diligent in that respect, so that may play a part too. All those things considered, I suspect the sun is more damaging.

I reckon your care of your skin as opposed to your sister's treatment of hers is definitely standing to you there. Especially if she regularly falls asleep with makeup on :eek:

Fizzlesque · 04-06-2013 8:32pm

starling wrote: »

I reckon your care of your skin as opposed to your sister's treatment of hers is definitely standing to you there. Especially if she regularly falls asleep with makeup on :eek:

Ah, I should add, she doesn't always wear make-up, and to be fair to her, she does take care of her skin, just not as diligently as my pretty-much-always approach. I'm the person my friends come to at the end of all night parties with requests for face cleaning products, which, if I've traveled to get to the party, and will be staying overnight, I'll probably have with me. Little mini bottles from Boots, filled with the kind of things that makes your face feel great after you've danced yourself silly for hours. I thoroughly enjoy that clean face feeling at the end of the day.

A simple pleasure that always works wonders for me. And others too, I've inadvertently noticed over many years.

thiarfearr · 04-06-2013 8:56pm

pirelli wrote: »

Genetics you say

The sun may be unpleasant for our skin if not dangerous but think of the legacy we pass on to our children.We are making their skin genetically better by staying in the sun.

Burn blister, and peel for the future.

Genetics doesn't work that way though, unless you burn and blister so much that nobody will make babies with you and only the non-burned/blistered people breed

starling · 04-06-2013 9:28pm

Fizzlesque wrote: »

I'm the person my friends come to at the end of all night parties with requests for face cleaning products, which, if I've traveled to get to the party, and will be staying overnight, I'll probably have with me. Little mini bottles from Boots, filled with the kind of things that makes your face feel great after you've danced yourself silly for hours. I thoroughly enjoy that clean face feeling at the end of the day.

A simple pleasure that always works wonders for me. And others too, I've inadvertently noticed over many years.

I am exactly the same about that! When I was in college and there was always a chance of the "all back to mine" situation occurring on any given day, I used to save up the little sample sachets of cleanser etc you get, and keep a few in my bag at all times

Took me a long time to get out of that habit, cause even when I left college and went to work you never knew when that "one quick pint after work on Friday" was going to end with you rocking up home on Saturday afternoon :pac:

And the little bottles, I'm actually getting unnaturally excited. May or may not have a bit of an obsession with Muji. What? That's not weird is it :pac:

starlit · 04-06-2013 9:42pm

All three wrinkles skin dryness skin damage.

pharmaton · 04-06-2013 11:05pm

Have spent the last three days worshipping the sun and I'm turning goldeny brown even with a factor fifty on (just face and neck). I'm not generally the kind to sit in it but I had the last few days off so spent most of it outside. Few years ago though I got caught walking to and from work during a blazing summer and only ever used moisturisers with added spf, they're not worth a funk, learned my lesson and won't use anything less than 50 on my face.
My mother has amazing skin and people often comment on mine so many people say it's down to genetics but I think looking back on it, she was never the kind to sit out in it either. The sun is great, I don't think it's scaremongering to advise people wear protection if they are at risk of over exposure to it though. That's just being sensible.

(I'm using roc soleil protexion 50+ which is great as a daily skin moisturizer and good to wear under make up too)

--Kaiser-- · 05-06-2013 9:59am

starling wrote: »

Well unfortunately Remmy if the sun changes the colour of your skin, that is your skin being damaged and trying to protect itself from more damage:(

Do you ever exfoliate? Because that damages your skin! Bam bam baaaaaam!

Tanning is a natural process whereby your skin produces more melanin as sun exposure progresses, this means that you can be pale in winter and take advantage of sparse sun, while being tanned in summer and not absorb too much vitamin or burn your skin. Pretty clever evolutionary adaptation to seasonal sunlight if you ask me.

Note, I speak of tanning, no burning, it's possible to enjoy sunlight without burning (or tanning, for that matter). Exposure levels are different depending on your skin type, but if you have fairer skin then you need less sunlight than those with darker skin. (Again, clever human body we have).

A preview of an article asserting that moderate sun exposure attracts immune cells to the skin surface, thereby helping fight cancer.

Here's a study showing that melanoma is increasing for indoor workers but not outdoor workers and suggesting that reduced cutaneous vitamin D levels may be responsible for increase in melanoma.

Another showing that, despite getting 3-10 times the amount of sun exposure of indoor workers, outdoor workers get less melanoma.

Tanning may protect against melanoma.

Some other benefits of sun exposure, apart from vitamin D production.

Let me know if you want more 'facts'

Ush1 · 05-06-2013 10:07am

Why do people think dark wrinkly skin is bad? No evidence that it would have any more health implications and if you think it looks bad that's a personal thing. Wrinkly skin looks bad anyway, dark or pale.

It's like when morons say, "oh, what's that tattoo gonna look like when you're 80?" It's gonna look sh*te, like all parts of all 80 year olds.

Festy · 05-06-2013 10:46am

Ush1 wrote: »

Why do people think dark wrinkly skin is bad? No evidence that it would have any more health implications and if you think it looks bad that's a personal thing. Wrinkly skin looks bad anyway, dark or pale.

It's like when morons say, "oh, what's that tattoo gonna look like when you're 80?" It's gonna look sh*te, like all parts of all 80 year olds.

Generally because Irish people don't tend to take sun to well.

Ush1 · 05-06-2013 10:51am

Festy wrote: »

Generally because Irish people don't tend to take sun to well.

Well I would say the sun can and does have positive effects on your skin. Booze and smoke have zero good effects.

Which is worse for your skin ?

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