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No 6 Nations for Argentina.

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  • 30-11-2007 8:36pm
    #1
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭


    Its official, the Argentinians not allowed into the six nations. Told by the IRB to make their play to SANZAR for entry to the tri-nations, which will mean 2010 at the very earliest before they get into a decent competition. Can't help thinking a great opportunity has been missed for the game globally...a crying shame.


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    #2
    EdgarAllenPoo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭EdgarAllenPoo


    It's a disgrace that they haven't been allowed in. They won't get near the tri nations. It's basically protectionism by the home nations. With the Argies in it increases the chances of teams like Scotland and Italy doing worse and worse and despite the extra financial gain from the extra games they could conceivably lose support by losing more and more matches.


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    #3
    Carroller16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Carroller16


    no 7 nations for argentina ... i think u mean :)


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    #4
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    GDM wrote: »
    It's a disgrace that they haven't been allowed in. They won't get near the tri nations. It's basically protectionism by the home nations. With the Argies in it increases the chances of teams like Scotland and Italy doing worse and worse and despite the extra financial gain from the extra games they could conceivably lose support by losing more and more matches.

    More like ourselves and France.......


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    #5
    il gatto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    The rugby world has traditionally been split by the equator. If the 6N should open to another team it should be by investing in someone like Romania or Georgia. Argentinian rugby is amature and proud and don't want to create professional teams. Because their players play club rugby in Europe doesn't mean we're obliged to accept Argentina in the 6N. The 6N is a short, concise competition. That's it's attraction for many. Any expansion should be given the closest scrutiny before consideration.
    They deserve some form of regular, competitive rugby at international level, but I think the 6N is not it. That leaves the 3N. Surely a more natural comp to take part in.


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    #6
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    il gatto wrote: »
    The rugby world has traditionally been split by the equator. If the 6N should open to another team it should be by investing in someone like Romania or Georgia. Argentinian rugby is amature and proud and don't want to create professional teams. Because their players play club rugby in Europe doesn't mean we're obliged to accept Argentina in the 6N. The 6N is a short, concise competition. That's it's attraction for many. Any expansion should be given the closest scrutiny before consideration.
    They deserve some form of regular, competitive rugby at international level, but I think the 6N is not it. That leaves the 3N. Surely a more natural comp to take part in.

    Would agree, the tri-nations is in my opinion, and not to put too fine a point on it, sh*te. It's half the competition the six nations is in terms of passion and edge, although admittedly the rugby may at times be prettier.

    I think the Pumas would be a brilliant and timely addition to a tournament desperately in need of a shot in the arm. Just hope the UAR can get the professional structures in place and that the SANZAR shower can be persuaded to give up a slice of that sweet SH rugby pie. Just seems a shame that a top tier rugby nation will have to spend at least another 5 years in the international wilderness. Need to do all we can to keep the momentum up. Lions tour must be an option...

    As for Georgia, Romania nice idea but the game in those countries is light years away from accession to the 6 nations.


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    #7
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #8
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yeah, just been having a wee read round, and think you might be right, here's hoping....


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    #9
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #10
    armour87
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭armour87


    The Argies had the best back line I've seen in ages during the world cup...

    Those forwards were a pack of animlas 2...

    Let them in for the viewers sake...

    Not if we had 2 travel 2 argentina though!


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    #11
    Mweelrea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭Mweelrea


    personaly whilst i was rooting for them in the world cup after we flopped out, i feel that they should be allowed play in the tri nations but not in the six nations. the tri nations is a southern hemi-sphere compition ideal for the south americans, however the six nations is a european tournament and sadly they're not european.
    oh and had they got in i don't think it would be just scotland and italy that would suffer after all we're not much better than them!:rolleyes:


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    #12
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    While I think that Argentina deserve a slot in a top competition,it would have a negative impact on the developement of the game in the Americas.If you look at the performances by the USA and Canada,there's clearly a huge amount of potential there,not to forget Uruaguay(?).A competition that would incorporate them would be a better long term goal than simply pushing Argentina into the Tri-nations.
    A professional league made up of teams from these countries, a la the Super 14, would do wonders to improve and promote the game.If the IRB are serious about expanding the game they need to crack the North American market and this would be a great way to do it.


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    #13
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    armour87 wrote: »
    The Argies had the best back line I've seen in ages during the world cup...

    Wha-a-at????

    They had one back with a bit of pace, namely the full back Corleto.

    They have a useful sniping scrum half in Pichot and a fly half with a siege gun boot in Hernandez. They rarely passed it beyond him- with one exception, the semi final against South Africa where they got stuffed, playing an unfamiliar game that they weren't (and aren't) up to and gifting the Boks several tries.

    The team they most resemble is Munster. Massive commitment, a steam roller pack, great team spirit and a ruthless focus on doing the simple things well, decrying anything more fancy dan than that as "Lady Boy" rugby.

    Fair play to them. THey deserve all they got. But don't go around saying they had a superior back line to everybody else. That's the kind of delusion that got people like Anthony Horgan on to the Irish team.


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    #14
    armour87
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭armour87


    OK OK maybe its this love affair I have with all things Argentinian but u forgot 2 mention Contempomi (I dont particularly like him but he played a big part too)

    As you said Hernandez and Pichot - Class acts, they at least were as good as anyone else in their position throughout the WC

    + A D4 man shouldnt be mentioning 'lady boy' rugby :p


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    #15
    il gatto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    While I think that Argentina deserve a slot in a top competition,it would have a negative impact on the developement of the game in the Americas.If you look at the performances by the USA and Canada,there's clearly a huge amount of potential there,not to forget Uruaguay(?).A competition that would incorporate them would be a better long term goal than simply pushing Argentina into the Tri-nations.
    A professional league made up of teams from these countries, a la the Super 14, would do wonders to improve and promote the game.If the IRB are serious about expanding the game they need to crack the North American market and this would be a great way to do it.

    Not a bad idea. Create an American version of the 6N. Argentina, Uraguay, Canada and the U.S.A. You need to create some sort of handicap system for the first decade though, or Argies would run away with it every year. I suppose it'll never happen though.


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    #16
    Mweelrea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭Mweelrea


    an americas rugby tournament would certinly be good!
    armour87 wrote: »
    OK OK maybe its this love affair I have with all things Argentinian but u forgot 2 mention Contempomi (I dont particularly like him but he played a big part too)

    How can you not like someone you've probably never met,
    at least give a reason so i can agree or disagree with you!:D


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    #17
    il gatto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭il gatto


    His forehead is too wide, perhaps? :D


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    #18
    MikeHoncho
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭MikeHoncho


    Has anyone in this thread apart from DaveIrl actually taken the time to read the article? There are big changes on the way for Argentina and it all looks very positive. They are going to start centrally contracting players in much the same way we do here. This could mean the likes of Contepomi could be headed back to Argentina in the next few years. This is so they are playing rugby in the southern hemisphere when the Tri nations comes around. It will be sad to see all the great Argentinian players slowly starting to leave the northern hemisphere clubs but Im sure that this is the absolute best course of action for world rugby. There are going to be alot of changes in other areas too so I suggest reading it.


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    #19
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    MikeHoncho wrote: »
    Has anyone in this thread apart from DaveIrl actually taken the time to read the article? There are big changes on the way for Argentina and it all looks very positive. They are going to start centrally contracting players in much the same way we do here. This could mean the likes of Contepomi could be headed back to Argentina in the next few years. This is so they are playing rugby in the southern hemisphere when the Tri nations comes around. It will be sad to see all the great Argentinian players slowly starting to leave the northern hemisphere clubs but Im sure that this is the absolute best course of action for world rugby. There are going to be alot of changes in other areas too so I suggest reading it.

    I agree. I am pleased that this plan puts the the onus squarely on the Argentinian RFU to finally embrace the professional era and implement a structure that will sustain and drive the growth of the game there. There seem to be an impression out there that problems in Argentinian rugby can be laid soley at the door of the IRB and the other established rugby nations, which is simply not true (Not that they are entirely blameless).


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    #20
    armour87
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭armour87


    Mweelrea wrote: »

    How can you not like someone you've probably never met,
    at least give a reason so i can agree or disagree with you!:D

    Its soccer 2.

    Since Maradona, Batistuta, Ortega, Claudio Lopez, Veron, Riquelme, Crespo and now Aguero and Messi I just cant help but love those sexy Argentinians


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    #21
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    MikeHoncho wrote: »
    Has anyone in this thread apart from DaveIrl actually taken the time to read the article?

    Um yes...may I refer you to my previous post...:D
    toomevara wrote:
    Yeah, just been having a wee read round, and think you might be right, here's hoping....


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    #22
    Mweelrea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭Mweelrea


    il gatto wrote: »
    His forehead is too wide, perhaps? :D

    Hmmmm i certinly wasn't expecting that but you may have a point lol:D


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    #23
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    If i might be so bold as to get us back on topic....Castagneide in Today's Guardian made an interesting point re: Argentina's involvement in the tri- nations. Essentially he argues that as most of the Argie top players are based in the NH, it'll be really difficult for them to get released for the tri-nations as the seasons, as we all know, don't gel, thus rendering the whole process futile....


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    #24
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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    #25
    toomevara
    Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    daveirl wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Yeah, I get that and I think, though don't quote me on it old Tomas did as well. But given the economic situation in Argentina and the huge gulf between the lifestyles players there and here experience, I think the UAR will have difficulty luring them back. Certainly hope they can though...Isn't it also the case that the UAR themselves are resolutely amateur and don't forsee the possibility of launching a truly professional game in Argentina...?


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    #26
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    toomevara wrote: »
    Yeah, I get that and I think, though don't quote me on it old Tomas did as well. But given the economic situation in Argentina and the huge gulf between the lifestyles players there and here experience, I think the UAR will have difficulty luring them back. Certainly hope they can though...Isn't it also the case that the UAR themselves are resolutely amateur and don't forsee the possibility of launching a truly professional game in Argentina...?

    I think the majority of the current team are in or close to their thirties so by and large most will probably not be around by the time they get to enter the tri-nations, so they will have time to blood (and retain) a new generation of players of to fill their professional sides anyway. You have a point though in that it is hard to see them being able to lure the likes of Hernandez back to play their rugby at home any time soon.

    Then again this would not be unique problem to Argentina I suppose, such is the money floating about in the NH club game even NZ and SA (probably soon to be followed by AUS) cannot hold on to large numbers of their player base.


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