Question about rucks in matches

Flex · 05-12-2007 11:58am #1

Hi, I started back into rugby this year at my college and was wondering if anybody could help clear up some things regards aspects of playing that Im still a little unsure about. Rucks to be precise.

When youre going into a ruck I know you cant come in from the side and are supposed to bind with team mates already in it and so on. Things Im unsure of is, in a ruck can you just try to force your opposition back by focing them and pushing them back or do you have to go into it so you bind shoulder to shoulder with the opposition as the front row do in scrums? I was always under the impression that as long as you didnt fall to your knees you could go into a ruck and just try drive the others back even if you were below their shoulder level (ie, you go in and end up wrapping their waist and pushing them back)? And also, when is it past the point youre allowed to contest a ruck (ie, when the scrum half is waiting to pass to ball out? Sorry if the questions arnt very clear, its hard to explain.

Was recently in a match where I hada penalty called against me for 'diving in', although I had stayed on my feet, and later on I was going into a ruck and the ref warned me not to or Id have a penalty called against me (at that point none of our team was contesting it and their scrum half was waiting to pass the ball out).

Thanks

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 05-12-2007 12:00pm

If you can get below the opposition's shoulder level and drive, then they're not doing their job right and as far as i kow, you're in the right

Flex · 05-12-2007 12:10pm

Thanks for the reply. thats always been my understanding of it too. Any idea why he called me for 'diving in' and told me not to engage that ruck? I didnt ask him because if I had have he woulda just moved us back a further 10 yards for the penalty :rolleyes:

Another thing, I play openside flanker so I get to rucks before the rest of the forwarsd and am the first man there alot of times after a scrum, so I used to just try get over the ball and cover it with my upper body (without lying on it or anything) and prop myself up with my arms/forearms while leaving a gap between my legs for team mates to rake it out, regardless of whether or not it was a team mate or an opposition player who had the ball and was tackled. Is that ok, or is that illegal? Once again, sorry for not being clearer but its hard to explain

Amz · 05-12-2007 12:19pm

You run the risk there of being pulled over the man on the ground and giving away a penalty. Particularly if you've no support and the opponent is there as quick/quicker than you. Your best bet nearly is to clear over and drive back opposition.

(That's probably not a very good way of saying it)

Flex · 05-12-2007 12:41pm

Amz wrote: »

You run the risk there of being pulled over the man on the ground and giving away a penalty. Particularly if you've no support and the opponent is there as quick/quicker than you. Your best bet nearly is to clear over and drive back opposition.

(That's probably not a very good way of saying it)

I think I get what ya mean. We were playing GCD a few weeks ago and I rucked over their player and covered the ball the way I described above and just ended up having one of their guys grab the back of my jersey and throw me over.

You mean in ruck situations you should just simply try to force the first man there back and wait off til more team mates arrive to help hold it til the scrum half or whoever gets their to pass it out?

Downtime · 05-12-2007 12:45pm

You must arrive at a ruck from the hindmost foot and keep your shoulders above you knees and drive in an upward direction. If you stayed on your feet you should not have been called for 'diving in'.

An open contest can take place at the tackle but once a ruck is called you cannot use your hands but can drive the opposition off the ball. Referees will instruct you not to drive in if the ball is clearly won on one side to allow for a quicker game.

You can't 'play' the srum half unless you have driven through he centre of the ruck and he is part of the ruck on the otherside.

Flex · 05-12-2007 1:10pm

Downtime wrote: »

You must arrive at a ruck from the hindmost foot and keep your shoulders above you knees and drive in an upward direction. If you stayed on your feet you should not have been called for 'diving in'.

An open contest can take place at the tackle but once a ruck is called you cannot use your hands but can drive the opposition off the ball. Referees will instruct you not to drive in if the ball is clearly won on one side to allow for a quicker game.

You can't 'play' the srum half unless you have driven through he centre of the ruck and he is part of the ruck on the otherside.

Ah right, that explains why he told me not to contest the ruck. thanks alot!

Only the scrum half can play it out of a ruck (unless hes in it of course)?

Downtime · 05-12-2007 2:48pm

Scrum half defined as anyone in scrum halfs position.

Stev_o · 05-12-2007 6:16pm

Flex wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. thats always been my understanding of it too. Any idea why he called me for 'diving in' and told me not to engage that ruck? I didnt ask him because if I had have he woulda just moved us back a further 10 yards for the penalty :rolleyes:

Another thing, I play openside flanker so I get to rucks before the rest of the forwarsd and am the first man there alot of times after a scrum, so I used to just try get over the ball and cover it with my upper body (without lying on it or anything) and prop myself up with my arms/forearms while leaving a gap between my legs for team mates to rake it out, regardless of whether or not it was a team mate or an opposition player who had the ball and was tackled. Is that ok, or is that illegal? Once again, sorry for not being clearer but its hard to explain

Diagrams would come in handy for how im going to explain this but ill try explain.

Basically if your first to arrive at the ruck you want to try and bridge [legally] by that i mean the player who's been tackled should be [or hopefully] be lying perpendicular to you when you arrive. At this point get squat down and hold on to his side of his body. Make sure you have a straight back and that your shoulders are pointing at around a 45 degree angle [basically facing the opposition] if they are facing the ground ull get pinged for illegal bridging]

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.teivovo.com/photos/welly7s2002/samoa_arg_ruck.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.teivovo.com/photos/welly7s2002.html&h=326&w=450&sz=70&hl=en&start=13&tbnid=egzhtSpOei_K2M:&tbnh=92&tbnw=127&prev=

As said its next to impossible to find a photo of someone bridging and this isnt one of them but look at the rucking players stance he has a low body position and his shoulders are down facing the opposition if he grabs the player infront of him side of his body he wouldnt be able to be pushed back

Hope that made some sort of sense :P

il gatto · 06-12-2007 7:05am

Flex wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. thats always been my understanding of it too. Any idea why he called me for 'diving in' and told me not to engage that ruck? I didnt ask him because if I had have he woulda just moved us back a further 10 yards for the penalty :rolleyes:

Another thing, I play openside flanker so I get to rucks before the rest of the forwarsd and am the first man there alot of times after a scrum, so I used to just try get over the ball and cover it with my upper body (without lying on it or anything) and prop myself up with my arms/forearms while leaving a gap between my legs for team mates to rake it out, regardless of whether or not it was a team mate or an opposition player who had the ball and was tackled. Is that ok, or is that illegal? Once again, sorry for not being clearer but its hard to explain

If you're the first man there from either side (as in the guy with the ball's team mates haven't arrived), as long as you stay on your feet, you should be allowed to play the ball (take it), and if the guy with the ball doesn't release, he should be penalised for not releasing.
I'm no oracle as far as the rules of the game go, but sometimes the level of refereeing at club level is shocking. I probably wouldn't do as good a job, but there are times when it's infuriating. Even in the World Cup, Leamy got pinged for trying to play the ball even though a ruck was not formed or called. It was in the Argentina match I think, so feck all difference, but the principal of the thing was annoying.

Eoin · 06-12-2007 2:48pm

Flex wrote: »

Another thing, I play openside flanker so I get to rucks before the rest of the forwarsd and am the first man there alot of times after a scrum, so I used to just try get over the ball and cover it with my upper body (without lying on it or anything) and prop myself up with my arms/forearms while leaving a gap between my legs for team mates to rake it out, regardless of whether or not it was a team mate or an opposition player who had the ball and was tackled. Is that ok, or is that illegal? Once again, sorry for not being clearer but its hard to explain

Isn't that called "bridging"? Which I thought was illegal, but can't find anything to back that up - but it could be covered by other laws I haven't checked.

Your head and shoulders must be above your hips if taking part in a ruck though, which may not be the case if you're bridging.

I think feeding the ball through your legs is called "squeeze ball", though is usually used when the tackled player is on all fours and feeding the ball through the legs. I remember this being mentioned during the last 6N, but not sure about its legality. I'd say unless the ball was immediately available, you could be penalised.

remus808 · 06-12-2007 4:49pm

eoin_s wrote: »

I think feeding the ball through your legs is called "squeeze ball", though is usually used when the tackled player is on all fours and feeding the ball through the legs. I remember this being mentioned during the last 6N, but not sure about its legality.

AFAIK it's still currently legal at professional level etc., but in U18 its penalized.. 'too dangerous' apparently..

Downtime · 06-12-2007 4:57pm

At ruck time you must be able to support your own body weight. If you are not you are therefore bridging or leeching and should be penalised.

Squeeze ball is illegal at underage. When playing the ball back through legs if must be done immediately and without delay. if it is slow and prevents release or opposition form getting at the ball it is considered not releasing and is penalisable.

On 8 November 2001, the International Rugby Board (IRB) issued the following Note on Interpretation of Law 15.6 (d) - the Tackled Player:

"Law 15.6(d) states: "A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except forward, providing this is done immediately."

In recent times players having been tackled or who go to ground have done so ensuring that the ball is underneath them, they then push the ball along the ground and through their legs (a practice known as squeeze ball).

On most occasions when players attempt to push the ball along the ground under their bodies they are not making the ball available immediately and they are in contravention of Law 14.1 and Law 15.6 (d). Players who attempt the action are liable to penalty unless the ball is immediately available."

Eoin · 06-12-2007 5:00pm

karmabass wrote: »

AFAIK it's still currently legal at professional level etc., but in U18 its penalized.. 'too dangerous' apparently..

I suppose your spine could be more at risk than if you were in a completely prone position - is that the reasoning behind it?

Stev_o · 06-12-2007 5:54pm

eoin_s wrote: »

I suppose your spine could be more at risk than if you were in a completely prone position - is that the reasoning behind it?

Pretty much its deemed too dangerous

Question about rucks in matches

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