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SpaceX's Grasshopper VTVL takes a 40 meter hop

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    The Future of Humanity with Elon Musk (Podcast interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson)


    Read most of it here and here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Jaysus, that's a snazzy soundcloud link!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    I was wondering what this Pad Abort Test was when seen it mentioned a few weeks back, testing of SpaceXs Crew Dragon Craft, meant for taking people to the ISS in 2017.
    The test on Wednesday is called a ‘pad abort test’, and will be taking place from Space Launch Complex 40 at the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.

    It involves the manned vehicle launching to safety from a simulated emergency on the launch pad.

    For example, if the rocket carrying the spacecraft was in danger of exploding for some unknown reason, Dragon would have to launch its crew to safety.

    For a spacecraft to be deemed safe for humans to travel in, it must be able to pass this test.

    Unmanned for Todays Launch, except for the Dummy with Sensors.

    2857089C00000578-3068674-For_the_purposes_of_this_test_the_flight_will_be_unmanned_save_f-a-14_1430871679532.jpg

    2857087600000578-3068674-SpaceX_is_under_contract_with_Nasa_to_start_ferrying_astronauts_-a-23_1430871679991.jpg

    More Info and Pics.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69




    it worked :D

    the action starts at about 15m 40s


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    Mostly worked. They did fall short of the distance and the whole sequence was shortened by a few seconds. Some people are talking about one of the super dracos shuting down early. Or it could be just higher than expected winds during the flight phase. In any case, as far as tests go this one was excellent. They should have all the data and the hardware is still in tact for analysis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    I think it was the engines, at 12 seconds someone says "slightly below nominial" but still a success IMO

    the next test will be harder, an abort at maxQ


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Jaysus, turn your speakers down before playing that!!

    She GOES doesn't she!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    I did a rough calculation and i think it got up to 700kph??
    Maybe way off though. Still, phenomenal acceleration and it would be some buzz to be in it for the test!

    Apparently it was 555kph. The sound delay threw me...hehe..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    shedweller wrote: »
    I did a rough calculation and i think it got up to 700kph??
    Maybe way off though. Still, phenomenal acceleration and it would be some buzz to be in it for the test!

    Apparently it was 555kph. The sound delay threw me...hehe..
    = 3.7Gssssssssssssss.

    http://www.wired.com/2015/05/many-gs-feel-spacex-capsule-abort/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Why does it take the "service module" along with the command module, only to jettison it almost immediately?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Why does it take the "service module" along with the command module, only to jettison it almost immediately?

    I think the fins on the trunk might help keep it stable while the rockets fire


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I think the fins on the trunk might help keep it stable while the rockets fire
    NASA's Orion capsule has the escape rockets located out front for the same reason.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    shedweller wrote: »
    NASA's Orion capsule has the escape rockets located out front for the same reason.

    I'm not sure if thats the main reason

    they may want to jettison the escape system like the appollo missions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Ah yeah, no doubt theres many reasons for it. But it does help with stability.
    The spacex launch abort looked well cool all the same. I love a good rocket staging / fairing separation meself! Were there any cameras on board?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Actually, you make a good point re jettisoning the escape system.
    The dragon doesnt jettison its escape system and carries it with it for evermore. Thats a fair bit of mass to be hauling around. That said, it doesnt have to be remade for every launch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    shedweller wrote: »
    Actually, you make a good point re jettisoning the escape system.
    The dragon doesnt jettison its escape system and carries it with it for evermore. Thats a fair bit of mass to be hauling around. That said, it doesnt have to be remade for every launch.

    yeah but they get to just it to land back on earth or the Moon, Mars ect

    good and bad points to both systems IMO


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




    5.20 talk of spacey stuff begins.

    Interviewer is a "tricky" one. Not much space stuff in it, I just like his interviews.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69




    love the music, perfect choice :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Elon Musk’s Hyperloop is actually being built in California next year
    Agreements have been secured for a five-mile, $100 million test track in California.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    I'm not a fan. I love that NASA is working on new technologies and new stuff, but it just seems way more expensive than alternatives. You're talking about spending $20 billion on a booster to put 150,000kg in orbit. Meanwhile, SpaceX intends to put 53,000kg into space for $100 million per booster. You could buy three of SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy rockets for $300 million, then spend $1 billion to assemble whatever heavy thing you wanted to put in space, and keep the other $8 billion

    yep, lets hope that thats what happens once the Falcon heavy starts flying

    also Musk never said he wants to be the first Martian, he just wants to retire on Mars


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    THE WHY AND HOW OF LANDING ROCKETS
    Some of you may have been following our recent attempts to vertically land the first stage of our Falcon 9 rocket back on Earth.

    There was this attempt in January, followed by this one in April.

    But we’re not doing this just to produce cool videos. Our goal is to radically reduce the cost of accessing space by producing a fully and rapidly reusable rocket system.

    Think about it: We don’t throw away an airplane after a one-way trip from LA to New York. Each new plane costs about the same as one of our Falcon 9 rockets, but takes off and lands many times per day and is likely to conduct tens of thousands of flights over its lifetime. Yet when it comes to space travel, rockets fly only once—even though the rocket itself represents the majority of launch cost.

    The Space Shuttle was technically reusable, but its giant fuel tank was discarded after each launch, and its side boosters parachuted into corrosive salt water every flight, beginning a long and involved process of retrieval and reprocessing. This contributed to the system not being fully or rapidly reusable, which are key requirements in lowering the cost of spaceflight. So, what if we could mitigate those factors by landing rockets gently and precisely on land? Refurbishment time and cost would be dramatically reduced.

    Historically, most rockets have needed to use all of their available fuel in order to get their payload into space. SpaceX rockets were built from the beginning with reusability in mind—they have enough built-in fuel margin to deliver a Dragon to the space station and return the first-stage to Earth. That extra fuel is needed to reignite the engines a few times to slow the rocket down and ultimately land the first stage after it has sent the spacecraft on its way.

    In addition to extra fuel, we’ve added a few critical features to our Falcon 9 first stage for reusability’s sake. Our rocket has small, foldable heat-resistant wings called grid fins needed for steering the first-stage as it plummets from the edge of space through Earth’s atmosphere, cold-gas thrusters on the top of the first-stage that are used to flip the rocket around as it begins its journey back to Earth, and strong but lightweight carbon fiber landing legs that deploy as it approaches touchdown. All of these systems, while built and programmed by humans, are totally automated once the rocket is launched—and are reacting and adjusting their behavior based on incoming, real-time data.

    So, while the norm is for rockets to be thrown away or burned up after their job is done, SpaceX rockets are built not only to withstand reentry, but also to return to Earth’s surface for a controlled vertical landing.

    What have we learned from the most recent drone ship landing attempts?

    The first attempt to land on a drone ship in the Atlantic was in January, and while we came close, the first stage prematurely ran out of the hydraulic fluid that is used to steer the small fins that help control the rocket’s descent. The vehicle has now been equipped with much more of that critical fluid for steering purposes.

    Our second attempt was in April, and we were super close to sticking this landing. Check out this previously unreleased, longer video from our tracking camera. It shows the stage’s descent through the atmosphere, when the vehicle is traveling faster than the speed of sound, all the way to touchdown.



    That controlled descent was spectacular, but about 10 seconds before landing, a valve controlling the rocket’s engine power (thrust) temporarily stopped responding to commands as quickly as it should have. As a result, it throttled down a few seconds later than commanded, and—with the rocket weighing about 67,000 lbs and traveling nearly 200 mph at this point—a few seconds can be a very long time. With the throttle essentially stuck on “high” and the engine firing longer than it was supposed to, the vehicle temporarily lost control and was unable to recover in time for landing, eventually tipping over.

    Last-second tilt aside, the landing attempt happened pretty much exactly as planned. Shortly after stage separation (when the second stage leaves the first stage behind and goes on to carry Dragon to orbit), cold gas thrusters fired to flip the stage to reorient it for reentry. Then, three engines lit for a “boostback burn” that slows the rocket and brings it toward the landing site.

    The engines then re-lit to slow the stage for reentry through Earth’s atmosphere, and grid fins (this time with much more hydraulic fluid) extended to steer the lift produced by the stage. Our atmosphere is like molasses to an object traveling at Mach 4, and the grid fins are essential for landing with precision. The final landing burn ignited, and together the grid fins, cold gas thrusters and steerable engines controlled the vehicle, keeping the stage within 15 meters of its target trajectory throughout the landing burn. The vehicle’s legs deployed just before it reached our drone ship, “Just Read the Instructions”, where the stage landed within 10 meters of the target, albeit a bit too hard to stay upright.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    cool video

    CRS 7 is due to launch on Sunday, and another landing attempt lucky number 7 maybe


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    Oh dear, that didn't go well at all. :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Hmmzis wrote: »
    Oh dear, that didn't go well at all. :mad:
    SpaceX just tweeted to announce that the craft did indeed “experience an anomaly on ascent.”

    screen-rocket.jpg?w=1472&h=756

    Thats one word for it, FS, they're all hopeless.


    I forget but ISS supplies are gonna be seriously low now, gonna have to bring some of them down now.

    SpaceX Rocket Explodes Moments After Launch
    SpaceX’s CRS-7 Mission Ends In Catastrophic Failure, Loss Of Vehicle
    SpaceX Falcon 9 Rocket Breaks Up After Launch With Space Station Cargo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭thecommander


    I forget but ISS supplies are gonna be seriously low now, gonna have to bring some of them down now.

    Progress supply flight on Friday. Only gets hairy if something happens that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Progress supply flight on Friday. Only gets hairy if something happens that.

    wayhey, they made it up.:rolleyes:


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/03/space-rockets-idUSL8N0ZJ1ED20150703


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    SpaceX's Rocket Crash Came at a Really Bad Time

    But an internal investigation would likely be just the first obstacle the company will face before it gets the final go-ahead to fly NASA astronauts to the ISS and launch military satellites. Coming back from a disaster like this is rarely as simple as performing an internal investigation and handing it over the relevant government authorities—there will be Congressional hearings and political grandstanding to overcome, as well.

    Before the crash, some members of Congress had already asked NASA to reconfigure its Space Launch System rocket, currently planned to go to a deep-space asteroid and to Mars, to be able to service the ISS because some lawmakers believe commercial companies can’t reliably get to the ISS. Navigating those politics won’t be easy, either.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    SpaceX's Rocket Crash Came at a Really Bad Time
    Before the crash, some members of Congress had already asked NASA to reconfigure its Space Launch System rocket, currently planned to go to a deep-space asteroid and to Mars, to be able to service the ISS
    :eek:
    http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2330/1
    SLS launched once a year will be six times as expensive as a Falcon 9 expendable launch and 15 times as expensive as a Falcon Heavy expendable launch.

    Yes in theory a 70 tonne launch could keep the ISS stocked up for ages. But it'll be a long time before it's ready to launch. And even longer for the 130 tonne version. And a failure would be very expensive and take ages for a replacement.

    Note:
    None of the new solid rocket booster casings for the SLS would be reused. At any rate, re-use via remanufacturing only saves about 20% of the cost of brand new solid booster segments. There also seems to be no effort to make the proposed advanced liquid fuel boosters reusable either.
    Unless reuse saves a lot more than that it's probably not worth the extra risks. They lost a shuttle by trying to save a small fraction on the cheapest part of the launch system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    NASA are a dopey shower.

    The spacex crash has cost them €110 million. They still have to pay SpaceX 80% of the cost for the failed launch and their was no insurance on the cargo. Same carry on with Orbital Sciences failure few months back.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-space-station-hearing-20150709-story.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    I don't think NASA or the DOD insure any of their launches, they are not a commercial company, it must work out cheaper in the long run

    also spaceX may be able to make up for the loss by sending a little more cargo on future CRS flights


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    So it was supposedly a failed strut/bolt that held one of the He bottles in place. Strut broke, He bottle broke loose pinching a manifold line in the process, release of He too much for relief valve, boom.

    Source - NSF coverage of the press conference.

    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37739.320

    Apparently those struts are among a few of the components in the F9 that are sourced from the outside.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    that sounds like an easy and quick fix

    hope they fly again soon


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    nokia69 wrote: »
    that sounds like an easy and quick fix

    hope they fly again soon
    And So Say We All!

    Oh, and outsourcing isn't the be all and end all it is currently portrayed as.
    Food for thought eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    shedweller wrote: »
    And So Say We All!

    Oh, and outsourcing isn't the be all and end all it is currently portrayed as.
    Food for thought eh?

    I think it all just depends on the cost, a simple strut/bolt is pretty cheap so making it yourself can't result in a big saving

    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-elon-musk-willed-spacex-into-making-the-cheapest-rockets-ever-created
    Vance relays a story from 2004, in which Musk asked Steve Davis, now SpaceX's director of advanced projects, to source an actuator that would help the second stage of the Falcon 1 rocket steer itself.

    "Naturally, [Davis] went out to find some suppliers who could make an electro-mechanical actuator for him. He got a quote back for $120,000," Vance wrote. "'Elon laughed,' Davis said. 'He said, 'That part is no more complicated than a garage door opener. Your budget is $5,000. Go make it work

    now thats a big saving


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    nokia69 wrote: »
    Now, when SpaceX says it can launch a military rocket for $90 million compared to ULA's $380 million, you just kind of nod your head and move on.
    ULA is a bad comparison. Atlas is using Russian engines and lots of pre existing tech and getting top dollar for it.

    Then again Orbital are taking the proverbial as Antares is pretty much a rebadged import.
    NASA chipped in $288 million for early development plus an additional $1.9 billion contract for eight resupply missions to be completed by 2016.

    Orbital’s approach to the ISS resupply problem was to design a rocket that would utilize existing, proven technology from a variety of subcontractors in order to minimize costs (this is in marked contrast to SpaceX, which builds many of its components for the Falcon 9 in-house in its own attempt to save money). Orbital assembles the Antares rocket and Cygnus spacecraft using hardware from manufacturers around the world: Cygnus is built in Italy, the Antares’ first stage was developed and is built in Ukraine, and the first stage engines (the AJ-26s) are upgraded-but-still-Soviet-era hardware supplied by California-based Aerojet Rocketdyne..


    BUT these comparisons are moot when you look at costs elsewhere


    Meanwhile in India

    ULA's $380 per launch is close to what India is spending overall on developing the GSLV Mk. 3 And their successful scaled back suborbital test of a capsule cost $24m


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    ULA is a bad comparison. Atlas is using Russian engines and lots of pre existing tech and getting top dollar for it.

    well kind of, but ULA are in direct competition with SpaceX for DOD and NASA launches

    ULA is a perfect example of what happens when there is no competition, without spaceX coming along they would never be developing a new rocket

    the next ULA rocket will be better and cheaper than the Atlas or Delta

    BUT these comparisons are moot when you look at costs elsewhere


    Meanwhile in India

    ULA's $380 per launch is close to what India is spending overall on developing the GSLV Mk. 3 And their successful scaled back suborbital test of a capsule cost $24m

    well AFAIK it cost spaceX about 200million to develop the falcon 1, falcon 9 and dragon, which is pretty impressive when you consider that spaceX have to pay
    their engineers California wages, also the long term price of a falcon 9R launch is less than 10million, will the Indians match that


    http://spacenews.com/guest-blog-new-sputnik/
    The Falcon 9 medium-lift booster (capable of launching 10 tons to orbit) and Dragon capsule (potentially capable of being upgraded to transport up to seven astronauts) were created on a combined budget on the order of $200 million. In 2009, SpaceX’s Elon Musk told the Augustine commission that he could develop a heavy-lift vehicle for $2.5 billion. The commission chose to ignore him, instead insisting that development of a heavy-lift vehicle would cost $36 billion - See more at: http://spacenews.com/guest-blog-new-sputnik/#sthash.KM6aGzS2.dpuf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-colonize-mars.html
    That’s why Elon Musk wants to put a million people on Mars.

    Why a million people? Because that’s Musk’s rough estimate for the minimum number of people it would take to create a completely self-sustaining population


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69






  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Elon Musk backs Nasa plan to send SpaceX capsule on sample return mission in 2020
    The 'Red Dragon' project was developed by a team at Nasa.

    It would grab samples collected by the space agency's 202 rover and return them to Earth.


    The sample-return effort would keep costs and complexity down by using SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket and a modified version of the company's robotic Dragon cargo capsule, the concept's developers say.

    Red Dragon is 'technically feasible with the use of these emerging commercial technologies, coupled with technologies that already exist,' Andy Gonzales, of NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California, said during a presentation with the space agency's Future In-Space Operations (FISO) working group.


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