Prime time homecare scandal

High energy · 14-12-2010 12:07am #1

Did anyone watch this tonight?

Horrific stuff. Carers adminstering medication, forcing food into their mouths, abusing them, humiliating them in the toilet, no qualifications or experience carers being thrown in with the "worst" elderly people, etc. The screams of that old woman being abused will haunt me for a while.

The shocking stuff is, these companies are getting €150 million / year from the taxpayer and are completely unregulated. You or me can go to the companies registration office and startup a company tomorrow hiring unqualified, unexperienced, not garda vetted carers - refusing to pay them, and pocketing millions of taxpayers money.

It's typical Irish beurocracy. React to problems as they arise rather than put in systems to prevent them occuring.

tony1kenobi · 14-12-2010 12:09am

Why don't you start a company taking care of old folk in a really nice way instead of pissing and moaning on the internet?

High energy · 14-12-2010 12:11am

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Why don't you start a company taking care of old folk in a really nice way instead of pissing and moaning on the internet?

Because I have no experience or qualifications in healthcare, am in a different career area, and would be hopeless at caring for anyone, especially the elderly.

I suppose prime time should have started a company taking care of the elderly too instead of exposing the abuse to the public :rolleyes:

spank_inferno · 14-12-2010 12:13am

Solution to elderly care = Soylent Green

mmmmm.... thats good grandma!

CreepingDeath · 14-12-2010 12:15am

spank_inferno wrote: »

Solution to elderly care = Soylent Green

Nah, a Logans run variation would be better.

Only allow people to live for 5 years after they retire.
That'll cut down on the pension funding problem.

Boom__Boom · 14-12-2010 12:16am

Once again an utter disgrace and the HSE is at the heart of it.

Fingers crossed the next government tells everyone with a desk job in the HSE to do one.

Has anyone ever been fired from the HSE for anything?

Aine Brady the minister responsible doesnt feel the area needs regulation. Fingers crossed for that statement alone will get her turfed out on her ear at the next election.

Kate Hartigan displaying utter contempt for people with her attitude on The Frontline.

steddyeddy · 14-12-2010 12:19am

Not from the hse, the carer involved was sacked.

GSV · 14-12-2010 12:20am

spank_inferno wrote: »

Solution to elderly care = Soylent Green

mmmmm.... thats good grandma!

Don't be ridiculous! Old people would taste like sh*te.
Young cheerleaders would taste the best and have a much better texture.

Newaglish · 14-12-2010 12:21am

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Why don't you start a company taking care of old folk in a really nice way instead of pissing and moaning on the internet?

Worst post of the... ever.

Banking crisis? Why don't you bailout the banks?
Poor hospitals? Why don't you set up your own hospital?
Inefficient public service? Why don't you start your own country?
Paedo priests? Why don't you start your own religion?

Seriously, don't you see how nonsensical that is?

Boom__Boom · 14-12-2010 12:22am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not from the hse, the carer involved was sacked.

Yeah but what I mean is that the HSE set up a system where they are handing over millions of euro a year to a bunch of evil uncaring companies without any sort of regulation/oversight ?

Surely this sort of stupid incompetence should result in people being fired from the HSE?

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 12:25am

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Why don't you start a company taking care of old folk in a really nice way instead of pissing and moaning on the internet?

God forbid you ever have to depend on these sickening vultures, it was appalling stuff not that you seem particularly interested in care of the eldery.

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 12:30am

Sickening, disgusting, outrageous are but a few words that come to mind. I can not believe after all the scandals in the health care system this disgraceful behavior is being permitted. More shocking than the treatment endured by some residents was the disgusting attitude of the owners of Clontarf home care, whom i have already emailed.

Jesus Christ will the HSE ever learn, heads should role on this but of course they wont.

****ing Vultures, i watch an earlier program on the treatment of Holocaust victims after liberation on RTE 2 earlier, to my mind there wasn't much of a difference.

dr ro · 14-12-2010 12:38am

Maybe harney will set up a centre of excellence for elder care. Probably.

PCPhoto · 14-12-2010 12:40am

Leas Cross was highlighted in 2005 .... elderly people were being abused and not treated properly in care.

2010 ... and the only difference is that there are more places/companies with employees who mistreat and abuse the elderly in their care.

The HSE - like everything else run by the unions/Government .... is reactive instead of proactive .... the people that have the power to make the changes are too high up and no interaction with the "on the floor" day to day running of the place.

Bring in accountability everywhere - sack the bosses of the HSE, introduce regulation (independent) and fund the regulation from the wages of the sacked HSE middle-management......the entire country needs an overhaul ...... from political system to judicial system ...to health system etc ..... but the glaringly obvious problems are missed by those who can change things.

Novella · 14-12-2010 12:42am

Shit, I meant to watch this. I'll catch it on rte player tomorrow, hopefully.

Anyway, what springs to mind for me is that a few months ago, I had a job interview in a nursing home. I have no qualifications in the area of nursing, or even being a carer, but the job was advertised as a 'someone to spend time with the elderly'. I figured it'd be things like keeping 'em company, reading, playing cards etc., so I applied 'cause I adore older people.

The interview was a quick chat, no questions and then the man conducting it told me I'd be shown how to use equipment to lift patients and said I'd have to wash them, assist them with going to the bathroom...

I thought, "Uh-oh, this sounds totally outta league". It turned out that many of the 'nurses' working in the nursing home weren't qualified at all, and had just walked in off the street as I had done. I was completely shocked. I'm not saying that the care was sub-standard, but considering the price paid to have these people in a home, one would expect that at the very least, the nurses had been through college and had more training than a 2 hour course on their first day.

I dunno, it's not good enough imo. The dreary atmosphere in those places actually makes me shudder, and I know it can't be all happy happy but leaving people of 80+ years of age sitting in a room by themselves for hours on end is total crap. They deserve the best care and attention. Some of the going on's actually break my heart, and I know that I'd be more than devastated if I ever found out that a relative of mine had been treated in that way.

Seloth · 14-12-2010 12:45am

My mother is a Geriatric nurse and allot of times these care assistants are foreign with very little qualification or care for the job.Not to be racist on the subject but the majority of times its cause by these care assistance.One night for instance a Nigerian woman came in,her nails quite long and curled,all done claiming she cannot do any work as her nails were just done,and on many occasions if she had them done up she was told not to do work as the nails would hurt the patient.

On other occasions they would throw the patient or move them in such a way which would hurt them,having no comprehension that such movements are bad for frail bodies.

Not saying all of these foreign care assistants are the problem,but they are a good percentage.

brianthebard · 14-12-2010 12:45am

High energy wrote: »

It's typical Irish beurocracy. React to problems as they arise rather than put in systems to prevent them occuring.

Agree wtih everything you said except the above point - surely it was a lack of bureaucracy that allowed this to happen? Regardless the Irish state is rapidly being revealed as a complete sham, incapable of working for the basic needs of the people in the country, hidden until recent years by a slew of cash.

kowloon · 14-12-2010 12:47am

dr ro wrote: »

Maybe harney will set up a centre of excellence for elder care. Probably.

I think she'd prefer the soylent green solution. :pac:......

easyeason3 · 14-12-2010 1:27am

How much does it roughly cost to put someone in one of these homes a week?

admiralofthefleet · 14-12-2010 4:58am

there is so much i could say here about the level of care my late grandmother recieved in the months leading up to her death, but ill only get extremely angry typing it

enda1 · 14-12-2010 10:29am

easyeason3 wrote: »

How much does it roughly cost to put someone in one of these homes a week?

I think its around 500 a week!

(Open to correction here)

Son Of A Vidic · 14-12-2010 11:10am

enda1 wrote: »

I think its around 500 a week!

(Open to correction here)

That's a conservative estimate, that price is more like 2005/06 pricing. I'm not sure what the average is now. But no doubt, considering we live in the 'Republic of Sh1t hole', the price has undoubtedly inflated.

dolphin city · 14-12-2010 11:18am

I still get surprised that people get surprised when they see things like this come on the tv - when are people going to face up to the fact that we have been living in an extremely corrupt situation for decades. The elderly people in nursing homes were being ROBBED every month for thirty years by the government - when it was exposed the government had the cheek to say that they would only get a portion of what was robbed from them back.

do you honestly think that people in their big job in the hse worries about what is going on, on the ground.

Its time for a change in government and policy - and by that I don't mean another "same oul, same oul" routing. I mean a sweeping change that will really put the wind up these corrupt country. At the moment we are living in a casino for the fat cats.

angelfire9 · 14-12-2010 11:21am

Full time nursing home care in a residential registered nursing home is upwards of €700 per week minimum depending on the dependancy of the client

PRIVATE Nursing homes in Ireland are well regulated these days & undergo HIQA inspections but they are VERY expensive
HIQA only started inspecting HSE operated homes in the last 12 months

There are still problems with regard to elder abuse in private homes but at least Garda Vetting & Fetac Level 5 are required for employment as a Care Assistant in 99.9% of private nursing homes
Garda Vetting should also be acquired for admin/housekeeping & catering staff

The Prime Time investigation was into the unregulated area of "caring" for the elderly in their own homes

I found it very distressing especially where the lady was being force fed

The companies featured seem to be totally focused on taking advantage of the HSE's inadequacies and the fact that alot of the elderly they are dealing with do not have relatives to speak for them

Very sad indication of how our society treats those that built this country in the 30's/40's/50's

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 11:28am

Seloth wrote: »

My mother is a Geriatric nurse and allot of times these care assistants are foreign with very little qualification or care for the job.Not to be racist on the subject but the majority of times its cause by these care assistance.One night for instance a Nigerian woman came in,her nails quite long and curled,all done claiming she cannot do any work as her nails were just done,and on many occasions if she had them done up she was told not to do work as the nails would hurt the patient.

On other occasions they would throw the patient or move them in such a way which would hurt them,having no comprehension that such movements are bad for frail bodies.

Not saying all of these foreign care assistants are the problem,but they are a good percentage.

I Do see your point but clearly there was Irish carers culpable and more to the point Irish owners/managers of this Horrid Home care companies who not only oversaw this disgraceful neglect but by all account encouraged it whilst profiteering from their actions. It was outrageous and these scumbags should be prosecuted. To top off this horrific mess the minister responsible stated she felt lack of regulation was not the problem? I am mad as hell, disgusting state of affairs and this on the back of nursing home scandals, will the HSE ever learn!

Cianos · 14-12-2010 11:29am

Seloth wrote: »

My mother is a Geriatric nurse and allot of times these care assistants are foreign with very little qualification or care for the job.Not to be racist on the subject but the majority of times its cause by these care assistance.One night for instance a Nigerian woman came in,her nails quite long and curled,all done claiming she cannot do any work as her nails were just done,and on many occasions if she had them done up she was told not to do work as the nails would hurt the patient.

On other occasions they would throw the patient or move them in such a way which would hurt them,having no comprehension that such movements are bad for frail bodies.

Not saying all of these foreign care assistants are the problem,but they are a good percentage.

"These foreigners" aren't the problem :rolleyes:. The problem is the lack of regulation and vetting of agencies and their employees - whether they happen to be foreign or not.

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 11:37am

Cianos wrote: »

"These foreigners" aren't the problem :rolleyes:. The problem is the lack of regulation and vetting of agencies and their employees - whether they happen to be foreign or not.

The real problem is these leeches running these companies, Jesus i wanted to &$% that?? (no i won't go there) from the Clontarf agency, i wonder when her time comes what will her thoughts be, absolutely shameful. I emailed this company last night and as anticipated no response forthcoming! at th very least this agencies contract should be canceled immediately.

BickNarry · 14-12-2010 11:54am

Seloth wrote: »

Not saying all of these foreign care assistants are the problem,but they are a good percentage.

Anecdotal evidence is not a valid basis for ''a good percentage".

Reminds me of that song ''they always try to blame it on the blacks,when its really those in power who will stab you in the back....''

We have a clear problem here in Ireland with the Carer profession. Those who provide care for family/friends/neighbours are often left without financial or social support while private run services are left to their own devices. Coming out with these statements about foreign nationals only distracts from the issue.

Vulnerable people should not be left in the care of those who are unqualified and/or unsuitable for the job. We need procedures and regulation based on research in the area.

Ash.J.Williams · 14-12-2010 12:06pm

Can anyone tell me the name of the kennels that the evil woman runs? i recognised the gate and fear a friend may have used her before?

Lorrs33 · 14-12-2010 12:12pm

I watched that documentary as part of my FETAC Level 5 Healthcare course and I took three pages worth of notes which just made me emotional. I was on the brink of tears by the end of it. When I finish my course I intend to be the nicest, most obliging carer Ireland has ever seen

steddyeddy · 14-12-2010 12:13pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Yeah but what I mean is that the HSE set up a system where they are handing over millions of euro a year to a bunch of evil uncaring companies without any sort of regulation/oversight ?

Surely this sort of stupid incompetence should result in people being fired from the HSE?

no because the hse are deflecting blame to the companies involved and in turn the companies involved are blaming their staff. What I want to know is that b!tch in the footage still in the country and has anyone got her address :S

jezko · 14-12-2010 12:14pm

Were Laws not broken then ? ...

Carers are required to have Fetac level 5 training, are required to be vetoed by the Cops...

The HSE staff signing the Contracts..Did they not ensure that there are x Number of patients so for 24/7 days a week you have enough Staff that are "already" trained/vetoed.. if not you get no Contract.. ...These HSE Staff failed to do their JOB correctly ... so Fire them ... Or at least Down Grade them to where thay can not put any lives in Danger ...

The owners of these Companies ..FINED and JAILED if they "bent" the rules and allowed lives to be put in risk...

Investigate by all means ... but this time have the cops do it.. Bring them to Court ... and afterwards NAME them.... Not just the managers ... the Executives.. The lot...

It's time to make examples and set standards ..
Most of all it's time to show the world we are worth saving from ourselves

Wicklowrider · 14-12-2010 3:34pm

Lorrs33 wrote: »

I watched that documentary as part of my FETAC Level 5 Healthcare course and I took three pages worth of notes which just made me emotional. I was on the brink of tears by the end of it. When I finish my course I intend to be the nicest, most obliging carer Ireland has ever seen

Great! Hope you have a satisfying experience and go far in your field.

And know there are a great many carers working here who give exceptional levels of commitment. My wife in the office of company providing home care and some of them are nothing short of saints. There are carers who will be taking their clients to their own home for Christmas dinner for example ( without pay I might add). There are carers who give their own time freely because the clients aren't getting enough attention through official channels. All carers at the company I am talking about are Garda vetted.
Now and again there are chancers but they are quickly dealt with.

BUT
this company are paying carers €15 an hour with double on Sundays and trying to compete with outfits paying minimum wage and no overtime.
Both the companies are paid the same budget per client by the HSE.

I'd say caring is something you either have a calling for or have not - if not leave the poor souls alone.

fontanalis · 14-12-2010 4:13pm

The very young used to be treated like animals, surely this should come as no surprise.

Glenster · 14-12-2010 4:16pm

I dont get what the big deal is.

AdMMM · 14-12-2010 4:23pm

Glenster wrote: »

I dont get what the big deal is.

Must...Resist...Urge...to...feed... troll......

Cookie_Monster · 14-12-2010 4:27pm

Friend of a friend got a job in one of those places. She left the same day after seeing what was going on.

My only question was why did she not report it.

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 4:37pm

Glenster wrote: »

I dont get what the big deal is.

Perhaps have an eldery relative looked after by one of these obscene companies, you might soon get waht the big deal is!

JerryHandbag · 14-12-2010 4:45pm

I've rarely been so outraged, angry and upset after watching a TV programme. That old woman who was visibly distressed reminded me so much of my late grandmother. It just makes my blood boil, but then why should we be surprised by anything in this country anymore? I'm sick to death of this half-arsed corner-cutting "ah sure it'll be grand, nobody will find out" attitude that these bastards have.

How can the people running these companies sleep at night? Do they even give a ****? Just as long as they can still have their jeeps and 4 annual foreign holidays from saving money by employing people unfit for the job. Sometimes I just lose faith in humanity. :mad::(

Ste- · 14-12-2010 5:07pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Can anyone tell me the name of the kennels that the evil woman runs? i recognised the gate and fear a friend may have used her before?

Have used her before and the Other half recognized her.
Site below.
http://www.hilton5star.edicypages.com/en

Dempo1 · 14-12-2010 5:10pm

Ste- wrote: »

Have used her before and the Other half recognized her.
Site below.
http://www.hilton5star.edicypages.com/en

Am i reading this right? this disgusting individual runs a Dog Kennel? no disrespect to dogs, i love them but it seems to me this **** seems to be confusing HOME CARE REQUIREMENTS AS OPPOSED TO DOG KENNEL MANAGEMENT, in some cases patients seem to have been treated worse than animals!

pookie82 · 14-12-2010 5:40pm

I'm not a soppy person but I was very close to tears when I saw the old lady begging not to be left alone after being threatened that her carers would leave if she didn't take her medication. Not to mention the stories of people who were left alone in their beds all weekend because their carers didn't bother to show up. Absolutely repulsive stuff.

To anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal, you don't even need to think about your own elderly relatives...we'll all be old some day, and I can only imagine the horrors that must await us if we don't act now to regulate this area of care. That old lady in the footage was so helpless and vulnerable in the face of those bit*es.

Jesus Wept · 16-12-2010 2:26pm

dolphin city wrote: »

I still get surprised that people get surprised when they see things like this come on the tv - when are people going to face up to the fact that we have been living in an extremely corrupt situation for decades. The elderly people in nursing homes were being ROBBED every month for thirty years by the government - when it was exposed the government had the cheek to say that they would only get a portion of what was robbed from them back.

Can you elaborate on this?
What was it?

GSV · 16-12-2010 10:09pm

pookie82 wrote: »

To anyone who thinks this isn't a big deal, you don't even need to think about your own elderly relatives...we'll all be old some day, and I can only imagine the horrors that must await us if we don't act now to regulate this area of care. That old lady in the footage was so helpless and vulnerable in the face of those bit*es.

In fairness I think the response is more like "what did you expect?".
To my mind all this right wing crap comes from the PDs influence.
People were happy to vote them in. Mary Harney is still there for Christ's sake!
They believe in a small elite at the top of society, Michael McDowell said this explicity - so you have 2 tier health care.
They believe in an under class, hence - "low pay is better than no pay". This from a woman who's on hundred's of thousands of euros a year.

A fair society is an equal society. In a fair society the welfare of elderly people is a priority.
It's a simple equation but we don't seem to have the balls in this country to stand up to the type of gob****es that gain power again and again and...
It makes me sick. no pun intended.

brianthebard · 16-12-2010 10:38pm

GSV wrote: »

In fairness I think the response is more like "what did you expect?".
To my mind all this right wing crap comes from the PDs influence.
People were happy to vote them in.

Oh for god's sake, how many pd's were there ever in the govt at one time? Two elected in the last election I think, 4 the time before? A certain very small section of the people were happy to vote for them yes, but don't make out they are representative of the populace in any way.

GSV · 16-12-2010 11:00pm

Yeah I know, a tiny minority.
My point is about the amount of influence they had on government policy.
Who do you think came up with the idea of privatising a part of the heath care system
so that if you had the cash you could get preferential treatment, Berty Ahern or Mary Harney?

Berty Ahern wouldn't have had the balls or the brains for that matter.
It takes someone with a ****ty right wing agenda to come up with that brainwave.

Little Acorn · 19-12-2010 8:09pm

When I saw that woman being force fed, and not being allowed to do anything for herself because the carer kept saying "she's an old woman, she cannot do it" "she is too old, so I will do it" it reminded me of this poem.
The poem was found in the belongings of an old woman who died in a geriatric ward of a hospital:
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/jimhug/See_Me.html

This documentary made me a bit scared about growing old. I hope some positive new legislation arises from this documentary, although I'm not sure how likely that is.

Prime time homecare scandal

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