Returning to the train again

thomasj · 25-01-2015 6:33pm #1

I have been taking the 39A since network direct began and its been working okay for me up to the last 2 weeks.

However, after taking it since the start of january, im coming to the realisation that, if I am going to get into work on time, I'm going to have to take the train again.

Don't get me wrong, the bus service on the 39/a route has improved grately since the last time we had bad traffic on these levels on an ongoing basis. It would be a case that if you missed the last 39a, you'd been relying on the 39 and could be on it for up to an hour and a half, and there was no guarantee that you would get in before 10.

Motorist organisations came our during the week saying traffic in the city was returning to levels not seen since the Celtic tiger era. And from personal experience, I would agree on my route alone areas such as navan road, cabra road, prussia street, manor street and the quays have been nightmares over the last couple of weeks .

While services on the 39/a have improved grately, the times taken to get to the city from hartstown are gone over the hour with these traffic hotspots causing delays of 5-10 minutes each.

I can't see how the planned BRT will work given its planned on taking in these areas. Given the built up areas they're in, there doesn't seem to be scope for developing the road infrastructure in these areas.

Its a pity, the 39A for me has worked for a considerable time but once traffic levels started to increase again, it becomes obvious why the rail network has the advantage in this area.

When I got the 39A, I had to get off at the quays and a 10 minute walk to my office. I'll be able to get the 14/15 outside Connolly now and lwill leave me across from my office now so it makes sense for me to get the train.

monument · 25-01-2015 6:58pm

thomasj wrote: »

Motorist organisations came our during the week saying traffic in the city was returning to levels not seen since the Celtic tiger era.

For private traffic there will have to be an acceptance that capacity in Dublin City is only going one way -- down. Even with Luas Cross City alone (post construction), there will be road capacity taken away that is never coming back.*

Capacity has to be given over to modes which are more effective at carrying more people -- ie walking, cycling, buses, trams, and BRT.

* = never, as in the foreseeable future.

thomasj wrote: »

And from personal experience, I would agree on my route alone areas such as navan road, cabra road, prussia street, manor street and the quays have been nightmares over the last couple of weeks .

Dublin's road network is operating so close to capacity that something small like a small increase in traffic, a collision or road works in one area, will have an affect on half the city or more.

thomasj wrote: »

navan road, cabra road, prussia street, manor street and the quays.... I can't see how the planned BRT will work given its planned on taking in these areas. Given the built up areas they're in, there doesn't seem to be scope for developing the road infrastructure in these areas.

There's no technical issues with reallocation of both road space and priority.

Where the most radical reallocation is required, ie closer to the city centre, policy already calls for such.

thomasj wrote: »

Its a pity, the 39A for me has worked for a considerable time but once traffic levels started to increase again, it becomes obvious why the rail network has the advantage in this area.

That's exactly what BRT aims to address.

thomasj · 25-01-2015 7:31pm

monument wrote: »

For private traffic there will have to be an acceptance that capacity in Dublin City is only going one way -- down. Even with Luas Cross City alone (post construction), there will be road capacity taken away that is never coming back.*

Capacity has to be given over to modes which are more effective at carrying more people -- ie walking, cycling, buses, trams, and BRT.

* = never, as in the foreseeable future.

Dublin's road network is operating so close to capacity that something small like a small increase in traffic, a collision or road works in one area, will have an affect on half the city or more.

There's no technical issues with reallocation of both road space and priority.

Where the most radical reallocation is required, ie closer to the city centre, policy already calls for such.

That's exactly what BRT aims to address.

That's hopefully what BRT will address , but in the short term, the current situation is not working and I need to find another way of getting to work.

Its true that there has been an increase in traffic levels on the N3 that has increased journey levels. The accident on the M50 junction at the start of the month brought the route to its knees for a couple of hours.

The road network is at tipping point but there's still more and more cars being added to the congestion . how do you stop it?

AlekSmart · 25-01-2015 10:07pm

monument wrote: »

For private traffic there will have to be an acceptance that capacity in Dublin City is only going one way -- down..

There's no technical issues with reallocation of both road space and priority.

Where the most radical reallocation is required, ie closer to the city centre, policy already calls for such.

That's exactly what BRT aims to address.

Policy is all well and good,but the abject reality is that within the Canal Cordon,where,as Monument outlines,the most radical attentions is required,Dublin City Council is COMPLETELY in thrall to the Multi-Storey Car Park Industry and it's ad-hoc representative voice.

There can be all of the Policies one requires,but as long as DCC are forced to put "Access to Car Parking will be maintained" at the top of every Traffic Management initiative then NO progress is possible.

Buy them out,compensate them,nationalize them...but get their commercial grieviance off the table before it finally destroys the last chances for a living Capital City that Dublin has !

schemingbohemia · 26-01-2015 11:51am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Policy is all well and good,but the abject reality is that within the Canal Cordon,where,as Monument outlines,the most radical attentions is required,Dublin City Council is COMPLETELY in thrall to the Multi-Storey Car Park Industry and it's ad-hoc representative voice.

There can be all of the Policies one requires,but as long as DCC are forced to put "Access to Car Parking will be maintained" at the top of every Traffic Management initiative then NO progress is possible.

Buy them out,compensate them,nationalize them...but get their commercial grieviance off the table before it finally destroys the last chances for a living Capital City that Dublin has !

How much do you think it would cost to buy out the Multi-Storey car parks? I would guess it would run into the 100's of millions. That's simply not going to happen.

A referendum on property rights (and the extreme interpretation of them as decided by the Supreme Court over the years) would be required to make it affordable and that's not going to happen either.

bk · 26-01-2015 2:46pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

How much do you think it would cost to buy out the Multi-Storey car parks? I would guess it would run into the 100's of millions. That's simply not going to happen.

True, but much of that land is valuable, city center locations. Nothing stopping the government rezoning them as residential, commercial and retail. Quiet possible they would be able to make back most of that money by selling it on.

Some of the car park locations could make for quiet large shopping centers.

schemingbohemia · 26-01-2015 3:28pm

bk wrote: »

True, but much of that land is valuable, city center locations. Nothing stopping the government rezoning them as residential, commercial and retail. Quiet possible they would be able to make back most of that money by selling it on.

Some of the car park locations could make for quiet large shopping centers.

The Government can't rezone them, the local authority can. However, that rezoning would have an impact on property rights meaning compensation in the 100's of millions which is what I stated in the first place.

By the way, I'd love for it to be possible but unless the Constitution is changed or the Supreme Court change their minds, it's not going to happen.

bk · 26-01-2015 3:46pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

The Government can't rezone them, the local authority can. However, that rezoning would have an impact on property rights meaning compensation in the 100's of millions which is what I stated in the first place.

Perhaps the re-zoning could be done in conjunction with the owners of the car parks, to encourage them to redevelop them into retail, thus at no cost to the government or city council.

I'm sure for instance the owners of the Drury Street Car Park would be delighted to get the change to redevelop it into a shopping center given it's ideal location across from Stphens Green and the other new shops on that street just beside it.

And I'm sure Brown Thomas would be delighted to expand into the one behind it.

They wouldn't need to close every car parks, mostly just the three around Drury street and the Fleet street one.

The others are all off in more out of the way places at the periphery of the city center.

Really all we need is a change in thinking about city parking by the City Council.

schemingbohemia · 26-01-2015 4:32pm

bk wrote: »

Perhaps the re-zoning could be done in conjunction with the owners of the car parks, to encourage them to redevelop them into retail, thus at no cost to the government or city council.

I'm sure for instance the owners of the Drury Street Car Park would be delighted to get the change to redevelop it into a shopping center given it's ideal location across from Stphens Green and the other new shops on that street just beside it.

And I'm sure Brown Thomas would be delighted to expand into the one behind it.

They wouldn't need to close every car parks, mostly just the three around Drury street and the Fleet street one.

The others are all off in more out of the way places at the periphery of the city center.

Really all we need is a change in thinking about city parking by the City Council.

Sorry but this is just delusional.

Why would someone making tons of money from a building, having had minimal outlay and paying very little in the way of current expenditure (minimum pay staff, bit of electrical contracting, lighting) risk all that to enter the risky area of a shopping centre with all the hassles that entails?

They make money for basically nothing at present, why would anyone in their right mind risk that?

ArmaniJeanss · 26-01-2015 4:32pm

Why would the owners of multi-storey carparks be entitled to compensation for changes in the roads outside their premises? (i.e, being pedestrianized, made bus only, whatever).
Is it not the same as any other business, traffic flow changes are things that can happen and you just deal with it and adapt your business.

AlekSmart · 26-01-2015 10:01pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why would the owners of multi-storey carparks be entitled to compensation for changes in the roads outside their premises? (i.e, being pedestrianized, made bus only, whatever).
Is it not the same as any other business, traffic flow changes are things that can happen and you just deal with it and adapt your business.

Why...because the Supreme Court interpretation of the situation may well decide so....that's why !

The overriding power of the Supreme Court to interpret,any and all elements,of the Irish Constitution is often overlooked by many people.

From DCC's point of view,they have plenty of communication,official and otherwise,outlining the willingness of various entities to head for the Supreme Court in defence of what might be construed as an "attack" on the Constitutional Rights of these entities to freely engage in trade.

Contrary to what some may think,DCC does not have a bottomless pit of money to spend on such actions,given that a day in the Supreme Court would begin at c.€50,000 before any add-on's.

More worrying would be the possibility of losing such an action,thereby raising the issue of costs being awarded against them...

Far,Far easier then,to simply carry-on as we always have.....and safer too....Irish Administration values,and always has valued,the "Safe Pair Of Hands".....:)

Thankfully,Ireland had'nt got control of the Apollo programme....that Saturn V,would still be sitting on the ground awaiting a ruling from some court or other.....;)

As bk points out,the issue is relatively simple.....

Really,all we need is a change in thinking about city parking by the City Council.

Is long as the "Authorities" can continue to prevent it becoming an issue,then this "change in thinking" will never occur...."shur,why wouldja need that"....:D

schemingbohemia · 28-01-2015 11:28am

But what change in thinking Alek? Without a constitutional change and the real threat of huge compensation to the owners of the car-parks, what can be done? I'd love to see them all closed down, but I can't see a cheap way of doing so.

ArmaniJeanss · 28-01-2015 12:27pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Words

Cheers.
I'm still not convinced though that its such a slam dunk case and I'd love to see DCC take them on, though I understand the downside.

But to me it looks little different to the pitfalls of any other business - trading conditions change, the nature of passing traffic/footfall alters, businesses get bypassed by motorways.
What was once a prime location for what you currently sell may not always be so, and I don't see why just because you are selling parking spaces that it should automatically entitle you to compensation. If there are no longer passing private cars they can continue to rent space to bicycles, motorbikes, taxis and minibuses at whatever rate the market can sustain for such business.

beauf · 05-02-2015 1:49am

thomasj wrote: »

...but in the short term, the current situation is not working and I need to find another way of getting to work. ...

You have a solution.

Get the train and/or cycle. There's bike lockers at the train stations and Dublin Bikes everywhere in town. Or get a folding bike and do a combination. at least try it for one week and see how it works out.

if you post a rough A to B people will give you suggestions of route.

beauf · 05-02-2015 1:51am

Once you start using the train and bike, all issues of traffic, car parks disappear.

Returning to the train again

Comments