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Government Capital Spending on Roads: 2016-2022

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Apparently the long awaited Capital Investment Programme is to be announced on Wednesday. Fingers crossed the M20 makes the grade!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Apparently the long awaited Capital Investment Programme is to be announced on Wednesday. Fingers crossed the M20 makes the grade!
    now pushed back to next week
    http://www.newstalk.com/Long-awaited-capital-investment-plan-wont-be-published-until-next-week


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    Apparently the long awaited Capital Investment Programme is to be announced on Wednesday. Fingers crossed the M20 makes the grade!

    I'd be surprised if it did.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ren2k7 wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if it did.
    The whole M20 won't be.

    Some part of it will have to be, it was needed yesterday.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Anyone reckon they can call what will be on the list?

    Something major from Cork will have to be, ideally 2+ schemes from scratched new segmented M20, N25/N40 Dunkettle interchange, M28, N22 Macroom/Ballyvourney bypass, N25 Midleton-Youghal. I don't think the N71 will be tackled from Halfway-Cork.

    It's likely something on the N5 will be included, either Westport-Castlebar or Longford-x. It's a pity they wouldnt' upgrade the N4 beyond Longford and spur off the N5 near Carrick-on-Shannon/Boyle.

    The M7 widening/J9A is another scheme that was needed yesterday and has to be on the list.

    Also plenty of rumours that the 3 schemes from the last PPP programme (M11 Enniscorthy, N25 New Ross and N6 Galway)

    Others:
    N4/N15/N17 scheme or something in the Sligo area.
    N2 Slane bypass
    N21/N69 Adare bypass/Foynes road improvement scheme
    Minor national secondary schemes (N56, N86 etc.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Well the M28 and M21/N69 are from EU funding, so I can't see how they won't be included.

    We're also expecting the M11 Enniscorthy, N6 Galway bypass and N25 New Ross bypass to be re-announced conveniently in time for the next election even though they were part of the last roads programme included.

    For Cork, Sponge Bob mentioned the Dunkettle Interchange, Cork will have to get something else, hopefully given the recent noises in the Daily Mail the 'something else' will be movement on the M20. I'd also add the Macroom/Ballyvourney bypass to that, it will be a fairly decent road if that is done, it will never justify a motorway like the N20 would but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a decent road to Tralee and Killarney. I would say longer term there should be a motorway as far as the Macroom bypass, but we'll worry about that at another time, doing Macroom and Ballyvourney would be higher up my priority list given how badly congested Macroom can get (not to mention how dangerous those bends coming into Ballyvourney can be).

    As the crowd up in Mayo are complaining that Enda is 'doing nothing' for the county you can be sure Mayo will get something (Enda certainly will not want to be coming second to Michael Ring or anyone else), Westport-Turlough has been mentioned plus Ballaghdereen-Longford, I wouldn't be surprised if both of them got the go ahead, I think once those schemes are done the N5 could be considered to be 'done' as the likes of Charlestown, Swinford and Ballaghdereen have already been bypassed.

    Widening schemes for the M7 and M11 near Dublin have been mentioned, but it would be far, far better if money was spent educating motorists on the importance of keeping in the leftmost lane unless overtaking, given Irish motorists' complete and utter inability to drive correctly on three lane carriageways. It's almost as if people deliberately do it wrongly at this stage, if you drive on the correct (leftmost) lane on the N7 you basically have the road to yourself!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I predict Cork to get Dunkettle Interchange and that will be that.

    N28 will also get announced but that won't be funded by government.

    N20 will get a few million maybe for planning or such. It will be pathetic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    marno21 wrote: »
    The whole M20 won't be.

    Some part of it will have to be, it was needed yesterday.

    It might be broken up into more than two schemes and build it out in a piecemeal fashion. Which actually would be better than waiting another 10 years for it to get the go ahead. Most motorway routes in Ireland have been completed in a drip-drip manner anyway so it wouldn't be anything new.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭kub


    I predict Cork to get Dunkettle Interchange and that will be that.

    N28 will also get announced but that won't be funded by government.

    N20 will get a few million maybe for planning or such. It will be pathetic.

    I agree with that, the wonderful electorate will listen as the Dunkettle scheme is announced, shortly followed up by the N28, but they will probably not know that the EU is actually footing the bill for the latter and has been announced already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    kub wrote: »
    I agree with that, the wonderful electorate will listen as the Dunkettle scheme is announced, shortly followed up by the N28, but they will probably not know that the EU is actually footing the bill for the latter and has been announced already.
    well, to be honest if they just announced the new stuff, then the first question is whether the old stuff is still going ahead, so maybe no harm to mention the old stuff is still going ahead.

    In a similar vein, if you have an amount of projects already in the pipeline eating up your budget for capital expenditure and you announce only the new stuff which is maybe relatively little, then it might not be aparant to someone with a passing interest that the small amount of new stuff is because cash has already been committed to that region previously.

    it is annoying when the same stuff gets announced again and again, but if politicans are elected on the basis of what they get (which in Ireland is nearly as important as being seen as being a sound head or from the right party), then you should expect to be reminded again and again what they are doing for their constituents.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,810 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    Apparently the long awaited Capital Investment Programme is to be announced on Wednesday. [...]

    Which one? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    joujoujou wrote: »
    Which one? ;)

    The coming one hopefully;).

    I see that the N25 New Ross bypass and M11 Enniscorthy bypass tenders are now good to go, so no doubt they will re-appear in the new announcement.

    I suspect we will see an official signing/photo op for both roads closer to the general election but may not actually see any physical construction of these roads until some time next year, like what happened with the M17/M18 last year when the ceremony was held before the locals but nothing happened until the start of this year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭Limerick74




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tomorrow's papers

    Mayo News - N5 funding confirmed https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQBjf0fVAAAeQdx.jpg

    Irish Examiner - Cork roads set for upgrade in €27bn plan - I can make out the words Dunkettle Interchange, Cork to Ringaskiddy and Macroom bypass in there - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQBi2SKWcAA89gI.jpg


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Bigger image here for the examiner. No M20 by the looks of it.

    http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ie.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭Nichard Dixon


    The Indo reports a " a €110m upgrade of the N7 Naas dual carriageway to allow traffic to freely flow from Cork, Waterford and Carlow to Belfast via Dublin". I imagine this reflects the poor quality of Irish journalism and they mean the M7 Naas bypass third lane project.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/27bn-spree-on-hospitals-roads-and-schools-31566455.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    What time is the actual speech at? Beyond believe if some part of the M20 won't go ahead.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Anyone have a full list of schemes in the programme? It's hardly just M7 & N22


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Anyone have a full list of schemes in the programme? It's hardly just M7 & N22

    The following are definitely in.

    M7 widening
    Macroom bypass
    Dunkettle Interchange improvement
    N28 dualling
    Foynes / Adare scheme
    New Ross bypass
    Enniscorthy bypass

    Nothing on M20 or N24 which is disappointing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Delighted the M28 and Macroom have made it, at last there will be a half decent road to Kerry from Cork! The only really bad bit left will be Macroom-Ballincollig.

    The M28 is great news as it was doubtful earlier on this summer if it was going to make it. Dunkettle is as we expected.

    I presume the Galway bypass will also be included in today's announcement.

    Mallow is getting a relief road as well, so that means Cork is getting Dunkettle (desperately needed), Macroom (finally), Ringaskiddy (also desperately needed) and a relief road for Mallow (which isn't really needed but is better than nothing I suppose).

    https://twitter.com/seansherlocktd/status/648825492922060800

    I am VERY disappointed that it looks like nothing is going to be done on the M20. Cork has done OK thus far, it could have been a lot worse, but equally it could have been a lot better, the road between the country's second and third cities is nowhere near good enough. Getting Adare bypassed is fantastic news as well, between this and Macroom Kerry has certainly done well for itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Axel Lamp


    Delighted the M28 and Macroom have made it, at last there will be a half decent road to Kerry from Cork! The only really bad bit left will be Macroom-Ballincollig.

    The M28 is great news as it was doubtful earlier on this summer if it was going to make it. Dunkettle is as we expected.

    I presume the Galway bypass will also be included in today's announcement.

    I am disappointed that there has been no mention of anything to do with the M20, but I shall wait for the full announcement before making any further comment. Cork has done OK thus far, it could have been a lot worse. Getting Adare bypassed is fantastic news as well, between this and Macroom Kerry has certainly done well for itself.

    Yes but they are drastically needed, so the plans are not an extravagance nor a 'present' for Kerry


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭yayamark


    Kerry has certainly done well for itself.


    Is there a road in Kerry getting an upgrade?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    yayamark wrote: »
    Is there a road in Kerry getting an upgrade?

    N86 if the locals would stop protesting.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    M7 widening & Sallins bypass
    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange
    N22 Ballyvourney / Macroom bypass
    N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin
    N5 Westport to Turlough
    N56 Dungloe to Glenties
    N56 Mountcharles to Inver
    N59 Moycullen bypass
    New bridge and approach roads in Sligo (Sligo western bypass?)

    Other schemes will be progressed subject to planning including:
    Shannon Crossing Bridge at Killaloe
    N6 Galway By-Pass,
    N72 Mallow Relief Road
    N21 Adare By-Pass
    N2 Slane By-Pass
    N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy road (EU funded)
    N69 Shannon to Foynes road (EU funded)
    Athy Southern Distributor Road
    Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road
    Phase 4 of Dingle Relief road
    Laytown to Bettystown Link road.

    Also included are the 3 PPPs, New Ross, Enniscorthy and Gort-Tuam

    In addition, Roads will be upgraded into Grange Castle Business Park in West Dublin to provide access for a number of global industries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    No N5 Turlough - Westport?


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    No N5 Turlough - Westport?
    Left that one out, included now


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,559 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    marno21 wrote: »
    N56 Dungloe to Glenties
    N56 Mountcharles to Inver

    Announced annually for about five and ten years respectively. Former has had ground investigation works etc completed (as well as an entire section completed!) and the latter has had the CPOs and demolition, possibly fencing done for ages.
    marno21 wrote: »
    In addition, Roads will be upgraded into Grange Castle Business Park in West Dublin to provide access for a number of global industries.

    The 'front' entrance is already a D2 with buslanes, and not heavily trafficked. They may be finally looking at fixing the awful R120 at the back


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    marno21 wrote: »
    M7 widening & Sallins bypass
    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange
    N22 Ballyvourney / Macroom bypass
    N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin
    N5 Westport to Turlough
    N56 Dungloe to Glenties
    N56 Mountcharles to Inver
    N59 Moycullen bypass
    New bridge and approach roads in Sligo (Sligo western bypass?)

    Other schemes will be progressed subject to planning including:
    Shannon Crossing Bridge at Killaloe
    N6 Galway By-Pass,
    N72 Mallow Relief Road
    N21 Adare By-Pass
    N2 Slane By-Pass
    N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy road (EU funded)
    N69 Shannon to Foynes road (EU funded)
    Athy Southern Distributor Road
    Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road
    Phase 4 of Dingle Relief road
    Laytown to Bettystown Link road.

    Also included are the 3 PPPs, New Ross, Enniscorthy and Gort-Tuam

    In addition, Roads will be upgraded into Grange Castle Business Park in West Dublin to provide access for a number of global industries.

    Is there a link to the full list? I can't find one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 799 ✭✭✭mydiscworld




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    Poor list. Apart from the obvious major cheat of listing the Gort-Tuam motorway, it's very hard to see the strategy in many of those projects.

    A truly strategic plan would have at least mentioned the M20 and N24.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,559 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    marno21 wrote: »
    New bridge and approach roads in Sligo (Sligo western bypass?)

    No. This is to be within the town, from the racecourse to IT Sligo roughly. It would take some traffic off the N4 I'd imagine but not enough to remove the need for the outer bypass.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    marno21 wrote: »
    M7 widening & Sallins bypass
    N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange
    N22 Ballyvourney / Macroom bypass
    N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin
    N5 Westport to Turlough
    N56 Dungloe to Glenties
    N56 Mountcharles to Inver
    N59 Moycullen bypass
    New bridge and approach roads in Sligo (Sligo western bypass?)

    Other schemes will be progressed subject to planning including:
    Shannon Crossing Bridge at Killaloe
    N6 Galway By-Pass,
    N72 Mallow Relief Road
    N21 Adare By-Pass
    N2 Slane By-Pass
    N28 Cork to Ringaskiddy road (EU funded)
    N69 Shannon to Foynes road (EU funded)
    Athy Southern Distributor Road
    Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road
    Phase 4 of Dingle Relief road
    Laytown to Bettystown Link road.

    Also included are the 3 PPPs, New Ross, Enniscorthy and Gort-Tuam

    In addition, Roads will be upgraded into Grange Castle Business Park in West Dublin to provide access for a number of global industries.

    Overall, it's not a great roads plan. A lot of schemes won't have their full value extracted because a connecting element is missing.

    Schemes confirmed:
    * M7 widening was always going to be included. Ideally this would include signage and education with regards to the 'keep left' rule which won't be followed.
    * Dunkettle was needed a long time ago, the sooner work starts on this the better.
    * Macroom/Ballyvourney is another overdue scheme, finally replacing the dangerous narrow S2 section as well as bypassing these two towns. Hopefully Macroom-N22 J3 is in the next programme.
    * N4 scheme replaces the worst section of the current N4. I presume this will be 2+2 to connect in with the current HQDC.
    * N5 Westport - Turlough, two major towns in a county connected, good to see.
    * The three secondary schemes won't be too expensive and will sort out incredibly dodgy sections of road in Donegal and a bottleneck in Galway.

    My main issue here is there is nothing major in this list. The last one had 5 motorway/HQDC schemes, and one major interchange. This has 1 widening, 1 interchange, 3 2+2 schemes and 3 secondary schemes. The second batch, 'subject to planning' has far more important schemes (N28, N6 Galway, Adare, Slane)

    Lack of other national primary schemes and N20/N24 schemes is very disappointing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,559 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The bulk (definitely the dearest part) of the N56 Dungloe-Glenties scheme actually started construction in June - wasn't aware of that.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    In the pdf but not on the DTTAS press release:

    The Government remains supportive of the commitment under the St Andrews Agreement to co-fund the construction of the A5 through Northern Ireland to Derry, which will improve access to Derry and North Donegal. The timeframe for this project is dependent on planning issues which are currently being addressed by the Northern Ireland authorities. Once planning, timing and costs associated with this major scheme are settled, consideration will be given to funding implications within the overall Government capital plan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭B17G


    No N5 Turlough - Westport?

    I'd rather they'd do the N5 from B'derreen to Stokestown first. Won't happen for quite a while I suspect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,529 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    B17G wrote: »
    I'd rather they'd do the N5 from B'derreen to Stokestown first. Won't happen for quite a while I suspect.

    they have to pick their way through the minefield of archaeology sites.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    B17G wrote: »
    I'd rather they'd do the N5 from B'derreen to Stokestown first. Won't happen for quite a while I suspect.
    Would be much better if the linked the end of the Ballaghaderreen bypass to an upgraded N4 between Boyle and Roosky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    The problem with any of those suggestions is that they're not in Enda or Michael Ring's constituency. In fairness the stats show that the N5 is busiest within Mayo, so there is a certain amount of (non-politically expedient) logic to doing this bit any way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Irish_rat


    The current government probably won't be in power to decide which projects go ahead so I would take it like a grain of salt.

    Its electioneering at its finest.

    Big money needs to be invested but they are filling their promises with schemes that are cheap, already in construction and a few that are PPP funded.

    Metro North, Dart Underground and the M20 are THE most critical projects right now and are all on the backburner yet again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Well at least Metro North is in planning (I know that's a very different thing to actually doing something about it), and DART Underground is being revised to save money (which I think is bonkers, but at least it's still being planned). There's diddly squat about the M20, maybe by the time I'm 40 (13 years away) the M20 will have seen the light of day, not that I'm getting my hopes up on it mind you.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Well at least Metro North is in planning (I know that's a very different thing to actually doing something about it), and DART Underground is being revised to save money (which I think is bonkers, but at least it's still being planned). There's diddly squat about the M20, maybe by the time I'm 40 (13 years away) the M20 will have seen the light of day, not that I'm getting my hopes up on it mind you.
    I'm 19 and I genuinely think my unborn children will be driving on the M20 before me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭B17G


    irishgeo wrote: »
    they have to pick their way through the minefield of archaeology sites.

    Isn't the preferred route to stay well north of the current N5 avoiding the Rathcroghan complex as much as possible? It would be north of Strokestown too.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    B17G wrote: »
    Isn't the preferred route to stay well north of the current N5 avoiding the Rathcroghan complex as much as possible? It would be north of Strokestown too.
    Yes but there's loads more ancient sites there too. Just a bit less.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Well at least Metro North is in planning (I know that's a very different thing to actually doing something about it), and DART Underground is being revised to save money (which I think is bonkers, but at least it's still being planned).
    I'm cautiously happy that they've dropped that silly Luas from Cabra idea and are back to underground Metro North.
    The money saving ideas for DU aren't too shabby, a truncated scheme from Heuston to Pearse would still fulfil the objective we're trying to achieve.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    Anyone know if the M7 widening & Sallins bypass includes the new motorway junction with the Naas - Sallins Road?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    B17G wrote: »
    I'd rather they'd do the N5 from B'derreen to Stokestown first. Won't happen for quite a while I suspect.

    It's in the wrong county! :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭confusticated


    Anyone know if the M7 widening & Sallins bypass includes the new motorway junction with the Naas - Sallins Road?

    I assume so, they got planning as one scheme.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,559 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Anyone know if the M7 widening & Sallins bypass includes the new motorway junction with the Naas - Sallins Road?

    No, that's never planned. There'll be a junction with the Sallins bypass, though, at Osberstown.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    spacetweek wrote: »
    a truncated scheme from Heuston to Pearse would still fulfil the objective we're trying to achieve.

    Isn't that the existing plan?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 799 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    At a glance none of these announced projects are shovel ready, or am I wrong?


This discussion has been closed.
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