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gym owner advice

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  • 18-12-2011 10:51pm
    #1
    Stillweak
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭


    Im hoping some of you can give me some advice. Im looking into starting a small gym. So if you have any experience in this field I would really appreciate your help.
    If you think you can help, please pm me and i will ask you some specific questions.
    Or you can just write in this thread.
    Need to know about how much square footage to rent, what equipment, fees, insurance. Any thing else you think might help!
    Thanks in advance
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Stillweak wrote: »
    Im hoping some of you can give me some advice. Im looking into starting a small gym. So if you have any experience in this field I would really appreciate your help.
    If you think you can help, please pm me and i will ask you some specific questions.
    Or you can just write in this thread.
    Need to know about how much square footage to rent, what equipment, fees, insurance. Any thing else you think might help!
    Thanks in advance

    First big obvious one is - do you have any experience in the field? What has you qualified to start and run a gym?


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    #3
    Stillweak
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Stillweak


    Hi James
    I was hoping you would get on to me, but with some advice, as I always enjoy reading your opinions.
    I am a qualified personal trainer but I would also like to have specialist coaches on board too as I'm not capable of taking all the classes that I would like to have. Don't worry if I can actually get this up and running I will do it properly. If I can't get the right people on board I would not go ahead.
    So any ideas for me?


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    #4
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    CF? Are you thinking of a Crossfit gym?

    I've done quite a bit of research on this so if I can help let me know, since it seems apparent I know you?!

    100sq ft per client is the number I hear quoted frequently for CF stuff, tho you can certainly operate on smaller.

    Any advice at this points pretty pointless without more deets. Like will it be open membership ala BHAF? Class based ala CF/SDSC? PT ala Edge etc?

    Things to consider off the top of my head;
    Rent
    Rates
    Power
    Insurance (building, personal, public)
    Service charge
    Water rates
    Fire cert if applicable
    Equipment
    Flooring
    Fit out
    Toilet/office costs
    Phone/net
    Marketing/website/promo

    The cost and relevance of that stuff swings wildly based off what you wanna do, so if you don't have a really clear concrete plan you need to get one of those first.


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    #5
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Put access at the top of the list IMO. Parking or somewhere with really good transport links.


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    #6
    Stillweak
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Stillweak


    Fire cert. I never thought of stuff like that so there probably more hidden costs and problems I will find out about.
    No it's not crossfit. When I said small gym I really did mean small.
    Will pm you a couple of thoughts if that's ok.
    Yeah access is so important. Will keep that in mind.
    Thanks for replys. Keep em coming guys!


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    #7
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,913 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Find an area that's poorly served, maybe somewhere that only has a poorly equipped community centre.

    Equip your gym properly:
    Squat racks
    Plenty of BBs
    Heavy DBs

    They don't have to cost the earth as long as there is no shortage.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #8
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Hey,

    Don't do it,

    Barry


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    #9
    Stillweak
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Stillweak


    Barry.Oglesby wrote: »
    Hey,

    Don't do it,

    Barry

    Ok. As an owner of a training facility can you add anything else.
    What did people tell you when you started out.


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    #10
    GoneFR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭GoneFR


    Stillweak wrote: »
    Im hoping some of you can give me some advice. Im looking into starting a small gym. So if you have any experience in this field I would really appreciate your help.
    If you think you can help, please pm me and i will ask you some specific questions.
    Or you can just write in this thread.
    Need to know about how much square footage to rent, what equipment, fees, insurance. Any thing else you think might help!
    Thanks in advance

    Stillweak the only advice I can offer (as I've never ran a gym) is that I'd be careful who's advice you seek/listen to on here as the only thing some people have ran is their mouth. No amount of "research" is substitute for actual experience.


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    #11
    Da Za
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Da Za


    GoneFR wrote: »
    Stillweak the only advice I can offer (as I've never ran a gym) is that I'd be careful who's advice you seek/listen to on here as the only thing some people have ran is their mouth. No amount of "research" is substitute for actual experience.

    GoneFr,

    You clearly don't know whom posts here. Maybe you should "research" that.


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    #12
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Da Za wrote: »
    GoneFr,

    You clearly don't know whom posts here. Maybe you should "research" that.

    He does.


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    #13
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Stillweak wrote: »
    Ok. As an owner of a training facility can you add anything else.
    What did people tell you when you started out.

    People told me everything from "GO FOR IT!" to "DON'T GO FOR IT!" and everything in between.

    I don't mean to be patronising but if you're looking on the internet for business advice I think that's a fairly good indicator that you shouldn't be doing it, at leat not right now.


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    #14
    Chi Force
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Chi Force


    Da Za wrote: »
    GoneFr,

    You clearly don't know whom posts here. Maybe you should "research" that.

    Yes, he does.


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    #15
    GoneFR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭GoneFR


    Da Za wrote: »
    GoneFr,

    You clearly don't know whom posts here. Maybe you should "research" that.


    Ah here petal I was just giving constructive advise based on my own "research" like the rest. I'll try avoid such wanton outbursts of reality from now on.


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    #16
    Stillweak
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Stillweak


    I don't mean to be patronising but if you're looking on the internet for business advice I think that's a fairly good indicator that you shouldn't be doing it, at leat not right now.[/Quote]

    I'm looking a lot of places for all sorts of advice. I don't take it all but the more things you hear both good and bad, the more you learn.
    There are people here I respect and they might just be worth listening to.
    After all the years running your gym, is that all you'd say to me.


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    #17
    Da Za
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Da Za


    GoneFR wrote: »
    Ah here petal I was just giving constructive advise based on my own "research" like the rest. I'll try avoid such wanton outbursts of reality from now on.

    I'm no ones petal. My bad for not knowing.


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    #18
    GoneFR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭GoneFR


    Da Za wrote: »
    I'm no ones petal. My bad for not knowing.

    Ah sure it's all a learning curve, why else are we here.


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    #19
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Stillweak wrote: »
    I'm looking a lot of places for all sorts of advice. I don't take it all but the more things you hear both good and bad, the more you learn.
    There are people here I respect and they might just be worth listening to.
    After all the years running your gym, is that all you'd say to me.
    Well sort of yeah. I've made every mistake known to mankind so I really wouldn't be the one to ask... or does that make me the one to ask I don't know.

    Anyway I'm doing fairly well now but it's only after several trial and error runs. This is the worst recession in almost 100 years, and it's showing no signs of getting better. A gym's main target market is 18-40 year olds. Tens of thousands of them have emigrated and about another 400,000 of them are out of work, and those that are still here and employed are reticent about handing over money.

    I'm not saying it can't work, just that it's unlikely to now of all times. I'm making it work albeit in a very specific, niche market in which I am, for the most part, respected and have a good name.


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    #20
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Barry.Oglesby wrote: »
    A gym's main target market is 18-40 year olds.

    Just want to add there's a studio in my local gym. My 6 year old does her fit kids class once a week there. They also run ballet classes, various martial arts classes, thai bo, zumba etc.

    The classes are run by external customers. Might be an idea to include some kind of studio you could rent out by the hour OP.


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    #21
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    squod wrote: »
    Just want to add there's a studio in my local gym. My 6 year old does her fit kids class once a week there. They also run ballet classes, various martial arts classes, thai bo, zumba etc.

    The classes are run by external customers. Might be an idea to include some kind of studio you could rent out by the hour OP.
    Well I don't mean to be the naysayer again... but

    I have a beautiful facility- clean, warm in the winter, cool grafittied walls, dressing rooms, showers- it's brand new, built almost from scratch from a redeveloped building. I'm very proud of it. 6 months ago I advertised for a Yoga or Pilates instructor to come in and teach, or for basically anyone who would be interested in renting the place per hour (I don't use every hour in my place). Amount of calls I got- 10. Amount that developed into meetings- 2. Amount of people who took me up- 0.

    The feedback I got was that in a regular (read Ben Dunne or large membership gym) they would have hundreds of people walking through regularly looking to pick up a new hobby or class, whereas in my place they would need to build. So it was worth it to them to get paid far less and to bide their time waiting for a space to clear in a gym.

    All of those classes work in a large gym because they have a large passing trade and a captive audience. Just be wary.


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    #22
    daveyc21
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭daveyc21


    Hey Stillweak.

    Just a couple of things. Forget the costings people have listed etc. these are the easy part landlords are doing f-all and will do a lot to get units rented and if you are clever about it most of the stuff listed will be done already. If I were you I would look at two things first. What product can I offer that is unique and is there a market for this product.

    If you are just another personal trainer looking to open a pt studio I would say forget about it there is lots around and the market there is near saturation. If you feel you have something to offer that new and interesting go for it and be prepared to persevere to convince others that it is worth them spending their cash on. A lot of people say spending 50 quid a month on a gym is nothing but it was probably half a day of work for people who are on a tight budget and it could be spent elsewhere. The second key thing as people have mentioned is Location. You have one chance at getting this right and if you don't you will spend a lot of your time and money paying for the mistake.

    Get good quality equipment cant stress this enough. You will pay for it twice otherwise.

    Be prepared to not get paid for a lot longer than you anticipated

    Be pessimistic in all projections.

    Everything will be a lot more work than you thought.

    Take care of your members you work in the service industry and peoples expectations are certainly increasing and substandard anything is no longer tolerated.

    You can learn something from anyone.

    Look at free marketing as much as possible. Contra deals etc.

    You are going to be your company's biggest asset you are owner,trainer,marketeer etc. So make sure you are up to the task try and read up on as many areas as possible. There are plenty of top trainers with failed gyms because they weren't top businessmen too. If you cant fulfill these criteria get a partner.

    It can be done. We started less than a year ago from the ground up and have built a top class facility with some of the best athletes in the country training here as well as a thriving membership.

    Best of luck


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    #23
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

    All of those classes work in a large gym because they have a large passing trade and a captive audience. Just be wary.

    It's a shame Barry. It's very possible the OP will lose his shirt doing this.

    The gym I go to is tiny by comparison to Dunnes. Does get passing trade though and is well established. I wonder if he has a location in mind?


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    #24
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Quite a bit of information in this thread.


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    #25
    Barry.Oglesby
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    squod wrote: »
    It's a shame Barry. It's very possible the OP will lose his shirt doing this.

    The gym I go to is tiny by comparison to Dunnes. Does get passing trade though and is well established. I wonder if he has a location in mind?
    I don't know what he has in mind. The PT market is flooded, mainly with amateurs using their spare time to supplement their income from their job, or unemployed guys using their dole as a base salary and as such both can charge far less than a professional PT. It's difficult to get a foothold. The classes market seems to have remained successful but I think the likes of groupon are actually making people think of them as short term. Most people I speak to regarding the bulk buy sites say the following:
    1) They advertise and get their new business
    2) The company charges their commission
    3) The people arrive for the given time period (usually 6 weeks)
    4) The people leave after the given time period and go onto the next groupon/citydeal/boardsdeal

    The end result is that the person running the classes has devalued their class. They have deemed it worth €120 (or whatever figure) for 6 weeks but the new market says they must give it away for ~50% discount. Great for consumers, not so great for business owners. Because of the plethora of deal sites out there, there is quite literally a fitness deal to be had every, single, day. They have no reason to be loyal to you.


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    #26
    the drifter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭the drifter


    Right so...

    I've cleaned up the thread. I'm going to reopen it as there is some good info here from people with successful businesses and experience. I would ask that if you have a problem with a poster please take it up privately with them. If you have a problem with a post report it and let it be dealt with through the correct channels.

    I really dont want to turn this forum into ban city. but if people refuse to get along and play by the posting rules. Then ill let loose with infractions and the ban hammer


    Id also like to thank those who have the experience running there own place/ seriously looked into it for responding to the OP's questions.

    Yours with great bitterness and anger

    D


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    #27
    columok
    Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭columok


    I think I'd probably agree with Dave when it comes to location. Make sure there is a dearth of strength training in the area, a big population of sporty people, decent access to buses and fixed line public transport (DART or Luas) and this will help massively. Location is probably the least considered component in a new gym and the property market really allows you to find some great deals out there currently.

    Looking at Ironside I think the key things they've tapped into are:
    1) Big populace of young athletes with nowhere to train
    2) No nearby S&C facility
    3) Close to a DART & Buses
    4) Driveable from a lot of South Dublin
    5) A very reasonable price point

    This is before you even get into the vibe of the place and the presence of ECB.

    It would be worth learning from this. It hurts my face when people built 'top-notch facilities' in the middle of nowhere.


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    #28
    COH
    Registered Users Posts: 7,078 ✭✭✭COH


    The Strength Shop

    a question from a friend who wants to open his own gym...
    Hey big guy. Just had some quick questions for you about when you started up TSS.
    What was the size of the gym?
    Start up cost?
    Monthly cost?
    Average price per membership/session?
    Price for your equipment? (if not included in start up)
    Price for marketing?
    What you do for marketing besides youtube and your website?
    How you built your client base?
    and what were the biggest challenges that you faced opening and maintaining TSS?

    Thanks a bunch homie. Have a great Christmas and if I don't to you before, have a great New Year as well!

    - my place was different than usual, you will have to check specifics in your area and what is legal or not. I trained in a storage unit, not "legal". It was just under 1000 square feet for $462/month. Cheap as hell, no water or bathroom. just 4 walls and a roof. My start up costs were simply collecting small pieces of equipment over the course of a few years. I trained in another gym for a long time and I slowly brought my **** in there and used it, when I got my own place I already had a lot to start with, but then I splurged and got a few new things for the opening. It probably cost me around $5000 in equipment, but I could've done so with less than $3000 with smarter planning and realizing what I did and did not need. So i wasted a few grande... My only costs after that was rent, 462 a month, 3 clients paid that, the rest of my clients were profit. For a while I had lots of clients, I should have over 100 clients now, easily, but made a lot of business mistakes, including going to Poland, moving, etc, but I will get back up there. I would just get a bigger space when the time comes and that many people are coming through the doors, as well as an additional coach or two. Then you have to figure out what you're going to pay employees. I charged $100-$150 per month, but I recommend you go higher. An example would be 2 x week for 175, 3 x week for 225, unlimited for 250-275. Discount 10-20% per each additional family member, group discount, etc. DO NOT provide more than 3 options, people analyze and get confused then do not invest. Every 3 months invest 10-20% monthly earnings into some new equipment until you have sufficient training supplies. YOu do not need everything on opening day, make due with what you got. You can get more later. Nobody is coming to the gym for the equipment, because a bigger gym down the road will always have more ****, they are coming to your gym for you, that is the only thing the gym down the road does NOT have, YOU. Position yourself as the go to expert in your area for 1 or 2 things. There is a golf guy, a pole dancer gym, etc. Create your niche and dominate it. Do not be everything to everybody, you'll get watered down and diluted and you'll be ****. My members did my marketing, they brought in their friends and i rewarded them with free ****, have lots of friendly contests and t shirt give aways, etc, be creative. The most referrals wins a $50 gift card to a restaurant. In the process of giving away 5o bones, you gained 7 new clients, each paying you 200 a month. I initially built my base working in another gym and training their clients and walk ins. Then it grew from there. It is much harder to start on your own if you are not training anyone currently. I recommend you find some sort of public speaking engagement and teach and educate poeple, do not try to sell them. If you speak well and provide great info, give them your card or pamphlet and make a special offer. Even if they do not join, they will talk. This could be at a church function, join the local Business bureau, etc. The biggest challenge is getting people n the gym and staying highly motivated even when you are drained. You always have to be 100% or you will fail. Nobody wants to come to a dead zone, you need constant high energy. You need to be the bumpin club, nobody stays at the club that is dead and the music sucks and the drinks are expensive and the bartender is an ugly bitch. Be awesome, talk to everybody, make t shirts, walk the streets and drop flyers off to people if you have nowhere else to start. Be awesome, happy holidays.


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