Renua’s radical plan to abolish loads of taxes and the TV licence

5W30 · 05-10-2015 7:20pm #1

http://www.thejournal.ie/renua-flat-tax-2368262-oct2015/

Elsewhere, Renua says it would abolish motor tax with a direct levy on fuel at source, adding 3 cent to the price of a litre of petrol and 4 cent to the price of a litre of diesel.

What do you all think of this? The fuel levy is quite good as long as they don't decide to double it during the next budget!

This could mean a return of the big engined motors :eek:

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 7:26pm

Heard some motoring organisation spokesman on the radio saying it might be nearer 20c per litre!

That's 90.92c per gallon.

Assuming an average mileage of 15000 p.a. and an average of 35mpg that means 428.57 gallons per annum, and an average motor tax on fuel bill yielding €398.65.

That's a raw deal for people who buy new cars, and a bonanza for drivers of low mileage big engined cars.

ShaunieVW · 05-10-2015 7:26pm

Ill be off to England to find a 540i e39!

5W30 · 05-10-2015 7:32pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Heard some motoring organisation spokesman on the radio saying it might be nearer 20c per litre!

That's 90.92c per gallon.

Assuming an average mileage of 15000 p.a. and an average of 35mpg that means 428.57 gallons per annum, and an average motor tax on fuel bill yielding €398.65.

That's a raw deal for people who buy new cars, and a bonanza for drivers of low mileage big engined cars.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/renua-proposes-plan-to-scrap-motor-tax-357500.html

This would add 3c to the price of a litre of petrol and 4c to diesel.

Not sure where you heard it but multiple news sources are saying it's 3c and 4c.

25000 km at 1.25c a litre of diesel, using 7l/100km is 1750 litres which means it costs €2187.50. It would have cost €2117.50 otherwise at current rates.

Comes out to €70 on tax for the year. Not bad considering my tax rate on the Focus is €280! :cool:

It would work out a lot better for pre-2008 diesels and just big engined petrols in general that would only be used on weekends.

MTBD · 05-10-2015 7:32pm

Unless they start ring fencing the funds gathered from taxation on cars/fuel it will all be a bit pointless. Some nice roads to drive on would be a good start.

I'd love to know how much driving on the disgracefully rough and bumpy roads of Cork costs me in repairs. Tracking, wheel balancing and repairs, suspension components, bulbs etc. Everything getting the life shaken out of it on a daily basis has to have a very significant effect on longevity.

That said I would love it if big engined cars stop being penalised so disproportionately.

Voodoomelon · 05-10-2015 7:49pm

3 or 4c, have these goons even done the maths on this? More like 25c-30c a litre increase if this was any way realistic. And i'd be all for it.

5W30 · 05-10-2015 7:51pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

3 or 4c, have these goons even done the maths on this? More like 25c-30c a litre increase if this was any way realistic. And i'd be all for it.

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 7:54pm

5W30 wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/renua-proposes-plan-to-scrap-motor-tax-357500.html

Not sure where you heard it but multiple news sources are saying it's 3c and 4c.

25000 km at 1.25c a litre of diesel, using 7l/100km is 1750 litres which means it costs €2187.50. It would have cost €2117.50 otherwise at current rates.

Comes out to €70 on tax for the year. Not bad considering my tax rate on the Focus is €280! :cool:

It would work out a lot better for pre-2008 diesels and just big engined petrols in general that would only be used on weekends.

A tax yield of €70 p.a. is exactly why it won't happen.

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 7:57pm

Will the new TV license tax be dependent on how much TV you watch?

5W30 · 05-10-2015 7:58pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A tax yield of €70 p.a. is exactly why it won't happen.

Even if it was 20c a litre it would still be good though. One less sticker on the windshield

bazz26 · 05-10-2015 7:59pm

Renua!

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 8:03pm

5W30 wrote: »

Even if it was 20c a litre it would still be good though. One less sticker on the windshield

It'd be bad for owners who've paid out big vat/vrt for new cars. New car sales would slow, and the overall tax yield from the sector might reduce.

p.s. Interestingly the guy on the radio said 40% of the total road tax yield was spent on costs!

Voodoomelon · 05-10-2015 8:04pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Renua!

No more taxes...for that man.

jimgoose · 05-10-2015 8:17pm

About bloody time.

Big Nasty · 05-10-2015 8:20pm

Would I like to see this happening? Of course.

Can I see it happening? Unfortunately not.

Tbh if they put 10c per litre on fuel and changed the tax rates similar to the UK level I'd be happy enough.

Marty McFly · 05-10-2015 8:31pm

I'd be delighted if this system cane in.

As I say in the Volkswagen thread it is the fairest system to have in place and makes perfect sense.

Might also stop people purely buying cars based on there tax cost and stop the amount of uneccessary diesel cars.

Be a lot more big engined petrol cars on the road to

bigroad · 05-10-2015 8:33pm

This is only coming from RENUA so far ,but will it push pressure on the main parties to look at the motortax system.
All a bit up in the air at the moment.
I know I want my 600sel asap.

CIP4 · 05-10-2015 8:47pm

Surly to make the same as they are currently making on road they would need to put 30-40 cent per litre on the price never mind 20 cents. 3-4 cent sounds like they picked a random low number and did no calculations on it.

turbocab · 05-10-2015 9:49pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Heard some motoring organisation spokesman on the radio saying it might be nearer 20c per litre!

That's 90.92c per gallon.

Assuming an average mileage of 15000 p.a. and an average of 35mpg that means 428.57 gallons per annum, and an average motor tax on fuel bill yielding €398.65.

That's a raw deal for people who buy new cars, and a bonanza for drivers of low mileage big engined cars.

its fair actually,the more fuel you use the more you pay,the more you pollute as well,also evasion of tax is eliminated once and for all,no brainer really

Zubeneschamali · 05-10-2015 9:52pm

turbocab wrote: »

its fair actually,the more fuel you use the more you pay,the more you pollute as well,also evasion of tax is eliminated once and for all,no brainer really

So, never going to happen, then.

05-10-2015 9:54pm

And what when I live in Donegall?

NIMAN · 05-10-2015 9:54pm

You can promise anything under the sun when you know you will not be in power and have to implement it.

Like a lot of the crazy promises the lefties make.

emo72 · 05-10-2015 9:58pm

they'll have to close the border:pac:

bigroad · 05-10-2015 10:06pm

There is a few problems with this.
1. people that laid out big money for new cars from 08 till now for cheaper tax.
2.younger generation that were pushed out to far away places but still have to commute big miles to work.
3.People jumping over the boarder for cheaper fuel.
Other than that its a great idea.

robtri · 05-10-2015 10:16pm

bigroad wrote: »

There is a few problems with this.
1. people that laid out big money for new cars from 08 till now for cheaper tax.
2.younger generation that were pushed out to far away places but still have to commute big miles to work.
3.People jumping over the boarder for cheaper fuel.
Other than that its a great idea.

Bigger problem is that Renua havent a hope in hell of being in power.... so nothing to worry about

Leonard Hofstadter · 05-10-2015 10:17pm

Well the first thing to say about this is that I would very much welcome any effort to get rid of our utterly daft motor tax system, which is so unfair on anyone who wants a nice car or cannot afford a 08 or newer car. It's the worst system ever what we have at the moment. However, this is never going to happen, the greenies and the liberal media would have their knickers in a twist about how this would make 'gas guzzlers' more desirable, but more importantly, the numbers don't add up.

The big problem with this is that 3-4 cent a litre more is nowhere near enough to cover the cost of abolishing car tax, I think the true figure is closer to 20-30 cent a litre (though if 40% of car tax is on admin then this wouldn't be so high but you'd still have to pay to give those workers a decent redundancy and so on).

What would be more realistic is to make everyone (no matter how old or new the car is) pay the exact same amount of tax. Something like €350 a year for everyone, it's still a reasonable amount even if you've got a band A car as they're on €200 a year. That would stop the export of large capacity cars, which means more money for the Government. Hiking fuel up 20-30 cent a litre risks people crossing the border for fuel, so that's not wise from a revenue perspective. It would also make petrol far more desirable, which not only would be far better for our lungs, but far better for the Government's coffers.

Irish Steve · 05-10-2015 10:25pm

The Civil Servant unions will never let something like this happen, too many jobs that will no longer be needed.

Best thing that could happen, and even more so if they could also sort out TV licences, and merge the state service cards so that there's one card instead of 3 or 4 .

Then, if more of the form filling garbage was made available on line, rather than having to be sent on paper, and posted, which is costing mega bucks to no good effect..........

Imagine if the HSE, and OPW, and Irish Water were all the size they were supposed to be, rather than the size that is being imposed by the unions.

Henry Ford III · 05-10-2015 10:31pm

In other news Turkeys don't vote for Christmas

Guy:Incognito · 05-10-2015 10:35pm

Abolish many taxes in order to streamline and collect from a small number of sources? Cant see how anything could go wrong. Sure any economist worth their salt will tell you of the folly of silly things like widening the tax base...............

Marty McFly · 05-10-2015 11:06pm

NIMAN wrote: »

You can promise anything under the sun when you know you will not be in power and have to implement it.

Like a lot of the crazy promises the lefties make.

They may not get power but it will certainly make a lot of people sit up and pay attention to them which is always a bonus for them. It certainly made them hit the headlines the tax system and TV licence are two things that grate on a lot of people if they can garner a few more votes from it for the next election it can help build momentum.

The old tax system and new system are incredibly flawed and a shambles really.

A much fairer better balanced system needs to be put in place, tax on fuel even at 15 to 20 cent is the best idea imo.

Give taxis and haulage companies access to green diesel and the rest of us on higher tax fuel.

NIMAN · 05-10-2015 11:18pm

Of course it will make people pay attention, if you make it sound like a magical world where abolishing road tax only adds 2c to a litre of fuel.

This would get anyone's attention, except that its nonsense, the figures don't make sense. Not even close.

beertons · 05-10-2015 11:26pm

Marty McFly wrote: »

Give taxis and haulage companies access to green diesel and the rest of us on higher tax fuel.

Or get rid of the silly green diesel, and give them increased tax credits based on what they spend on fuel.

Marty McFly · 05-10-2015 11:32pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course it will make people pay attention, if you make it sound like a magical world where abolishing road tax only adds 2c to a litre of fuel.

This would get anyone's attention, except that its nonsense, the figures don't make sense. Not even close.

Most people will realise that's a load of crap but even at 20 cent a litre I think most people would accept it.

Its a fair system and think you'd be suprised by how many people would be happy to loose another annual bill to worry about.

It could also be pushed by the greens to get people to use public transport and cycle to work so they could claim they once again saved the environment.

jimgoose · 05-10-2015 11:32pm

Marty McFly wrote: »

...Give taxis and haulage companies access to green diesel and the rest of us on higher tax fuel.

There's already separate tax rates for commercials. I say leave that as it is, and go one better by giving commercial operators the choice to stay on that or pay on their fuel, whichever is cheaper.

_Kaiser_ · 06-10-2015 12:31am

This thread /forum probably isn't representative given all the excitement about the notion of driving big engined petrol cars at the weekend or doing feck all mileage with no motor tax.

For many people who have been priced out of buying /renting somewhere close to work or where public transport is impractical or non-existent, and who spend a fortune on fuel as a result (plus the additional wear and tear costs and consumables) this would probably cost significantly more if the maths were done right by the party implementing it... Never going to happen!

Incidentally, what do ye think would happen to all those big engined cars btw? They'd shoot up in price of course reducing the "savings" rather significantly I'd imagine.

Marty McFly · 06-10-2015 12:38am

Yea imagine a system were the more you use the roads the more you pay to maintain them absolute lunacy at its finest.

The current system has pushed many a person into diesel wrongly you now have people driving diesel who do about ten miles a week you had people spending thousands on car loans to save a few hundred a year on tax.

Petrols would no doubt increase in value as demand would go up.

Zubeneschamali · 06-10-2015 12:40am

Sure - different tax regimes favour different cars. I bought a 2.0 diesel in January 2008, and the tax changes lamped thousands off the value of it within 6 months. Them's the breaks.

Our current system is beyond stupid. If we changed to something sensible, some people would gain and some would lose. But we'd end up with a sensible system, and that would be good.

PurvesGrundy · 06-10-2015 12:40am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Incidentally, what do ye think would happen to all those big engined cars btw? They'd shoot up in price of course reducing the "savings" rather significantly I'd imagine.

Nonsense.

The ones left (there aren't many......) just wouldn't be exported anymore and people would actually be able to 'sell' them.

You can't win sometimes with people. This proposed system would be by far the lesser of two evils, even taking into account the individuals who do a lot of driving or live close to borders etc.

Atlantic Dawn · 06-10-2015 1:35am

It's a basket case party, this in the only policy they have come out with that I agree on, everything else is away with the fairies.

Nichard Dixon · 06-10-2015 1:42am

This is bollox,the sums don't add up and if the right sums were applied then you'd have giant petrol stations in Jonesbrough shipping fuel by the tanker.

The TV licence should be added to the property tax.

Atlantic Dawn · 06-10-2015 1:45am

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

This is bollox,the sums don't add up and if the right sums were applied then you'd have giant petrol stations in Jonesbrough shipping fuel by the tanker.

The TV licence should be added to the property tax.

If the difference was sub 20% there would be no benefit in travelling across the border unless you lived about 10 miles from the border. With the chance of the UK leaving the EU it does get a little interesting though, their currency will depreciate like a stone

NIMAN · 06-10-2015 2:20am

Marty McFly wrote: »

Most people will realise that's a load of crap but even at 20 cent a litre I think most people would accept it.

Its a fair system and think you'd be suprised by how many people would be happy to loose another annual bill to worry about.

It could also be pushed by the greens to get people to use public transport and cycle to work so they could claim they once again saved the environment.

The greens are long gone.

166man · 06-10-2015 2:26am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It'd be bad for owners who've paid out big vat/vrt for new cars. New car sales would slow, and the overall tax yield from the sector might reduce.

p.s. Interestingly the guy on the radio said 40% of the total road tax yield was spent on costs!

Why would new car sales slow? I don't think with an economy growing at 4% this year and predicted to grow higher next year would cause sales to slow significantly because fuel prices increased.

Having worked in the industry myself this whole "buying a new car to save on tax" argument doesn't have a strong grounding.

I think the people that were going to buy brand new cars will just continue to do so.

Nichard Dixon · 06-10-2015 3:39am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If the difference was sub 20% there would be no benefit in travelling across the border unless you lived about 10 miles from the border. With the chance of the UK leaving the EU it does get a little interesting though, their currency will depreciate like a stone

It creates a huge incentive to smuggle, there is no reason to deliberately create that.
Also some reg fee for cars would still exist and come the next downturn you'd have motor tax back.

Marty McFly · 06-10-2015 8:30am

NIMAN wrote: »

The greens are long gone.

I just meant it as a phrase for those that push environmental issues

bear1 · 06-10-2015 9:08am

It will never happen

I cant remember the last time the government did anything to help out every single motorist.
I also cant see massive engined cars being driven around as most of the country would still be used to small engines diesels.

jimgoose · 06-10-2015 9:19am

bear1 wrote: »

It will never happen I cant remember the last time the government did anything to help out every single motorist.
I also cant see massive engined cars being driven around as most of the country would still be used to small engines diesels.

Mini Cooper with supercharged 572-inch Chevy crate engine FTW. 1.6 on de logbook biy, m'kay luv ya buh-bye!

Streetwalker · 06-10-2015 9:22am

No thanks. I bought my car for the sole reason of the low road tax. If you want to drive a 2 litre fast car then pay for the privilege.

Thank god these clowns have zero chance of getting into power

Chris_Heilong · 06-10-2015 9:25am

350z will finally start making a bit of sense.

creedp · 06-10-2015 9:35am

Nichard Dixon wrote: »

It creates a huge incentive to smuggle, there is no reason to deliberately create that.
Also some reg fee for cars would still exist and come the next downturn you'd have motor tax back.

Motor tax was abolished once already .. yet its still there .. and will always be there in one from or another. Also there was an extra temporary duty put on fuel sometime back when fuel prices were falling - don't remember it ever being removed when fuel prices shot through the roof! Loading an extra 20c on a litre now will be quickly forgotten and in couple of years time it will be another 20c and so on.

Its all very well to say if you drive more you should pay more so load extra duty on fuel .. maybe reasonable for a person who lives on the motorway network with top class roads (although the tolls are supposed to paying for this benefit already) but what about if you live on areas serviced only by crumbling national/local roads? Should you pay the same for this privilege?

In my view there should be a annual motor tax charge but it should be fairer - this pre/post 08 lark is ridiculous. The argument that people bought new cars post 08 on the back of low motor tax and therefore it would be unfair to increase their tax now doesn't stand - taxes go up all the time - no one, including those driving around in shiny low tax/low vrt new smoky diesels, are exempt from this principle

bear1 · 06-10-2015 9:42am

jimgoose wrote: »

Mini Cooper with supercharged 572-inch Chevy crate engine FTW. 1.6 on de logbook biy, m'kay luv ya buh-bye!

I can beat that.. A fiat 126 with a supercharged maloo engine. 0.6 on de book dere laddy

Renua’s radical plan to abolish loads of taxes and the TV licence

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