Hard left

mariaalice wrote: »

Genuine question what do the hard left in Irish politics want too happen

I know all the usual stereotype of tax the rich etc but that's just a stereotype and there has to be more to it that that, or are they just a collection of protesters with no real policies.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1410#

i suppose id just be very afraid of what a leftist/socalist government would do to rural ireland id imagine that they would not rest until they had the place like the surface of the moon! what would there views be on the future of the irish food industry for instance?

on the point of public sector pay cuts, yes it wasnt nice but we all had to ake some cuts . imo it was far less than the private sector. its just the fact that we had many very good years in this country and were on the road to recovery again, people would actually be not that badly off only for the millstone of huge mortgages around there necks.
I think the irish government really need to start building council houses again, there were people who got mortgages and bought houses who shouldnt have been let buy cars in the last boom.

There's no perfect country in the world, never has been, and never will be. But I think that the best examples of capitalist societies which are also fair, are Scandinavian societies. Sweden and Finland consistently have good growth, employment levels and GDP figures. At the same time they have some of the best education, health and welfare systems in the world. The only way this can be funded is through high taxes, something which the 'far-left' in this country would protest day and night over if it was implemented. Rather than implementing these crazy 'millionaire's tax', which only serves to deter entrepreneurship and hard work, a general rise in taxes is the only clear way we can ensure services in the country are improved and a better balance is struck in society. SF and the rest like to think that lowering taxes and raising spending is sustainable, maybe if any of them could use a calculator they would have a reasonable argument.

Joshua J wrote: »

If you find yourself diametrically opposed to the far-left doesn't that make you a fascist?.



Sums up a lot of folk in this thread (and others). You do realise that because you are far right you are also an extremist?. Food for thought.

worth remembering that certain facists were called National "socialism"

BoatMad wrote: »

worth remembering that certain facists were called National "socialism"

I can call a duck a cat. Doesn't change the fact it's still a duck.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Interesting - I've never heard of Fís Nua before, and their policies are extremely interesting; they present a number of very sensible policies (a ton that I advocate myself), for resolving the economic crisis, and preventing future ones - and even taking into consideration, issues with future climate change.

Do people take issue with many of that parties policies?

Their health policies leave alot to be desired:

We would immediately remove fluoride from our main water supply ■ We would seek to overturn the EU ban on the use of herbal medicines and home remedies .

:rolleyes:

Joshua J wrote: »

I can call a duck a cat. Doesn't change the fact it's still a duck.

A reading of history might show you they were part duck part cat.

mariaalice wrote: »

Genuine question what do the hard left in Irish politics want too happen

I know all the usual stereotype of tax the rich etc but that's just a stereotype and there has to be more to it that that, or are they just a collection of protesters with no real policies.

I want to see primarily the end of hierarchy and fundamental overhaul of the monetary system. I also want a political system which answers directly to the electorate and not to vested interests.

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Are you doubting the Magic Money Tree School of Economics?

Yes , I have a few concerns, just a few, however at the moment my hard disk has about 200 Gb left and my list of concerns, document wont save

BoatMad wrote: »

Id like world peace too, aint going to happen, in the meantime answer this

1. How do you fund a state that cannot raise enough taxes to meet day to day spending

Monetary reform, as I said. The current monetary system is a joke and is in my view the ultimate root cause of the worldwide economic BS over the last few years. It was a meltdown waiting to happen, and as long as we run entire economies based on non-existant currency, it will continue to happen. again. And again.

2. How do you balance the citizens demand for free healthcare against the costs of providing it, in a country with a small population
2a. How do you fund third level universities to a standard of world class education system, yet people will not pay for fees.
3. How do you stimulate the economy so that young people can get meaningful employment and not as skivvies in cafes bars.

after that stuff lets tackle the simple tasks of reforming the monetary systems, eradicating world hunger and covering ireland with a roof

You seem to miss my point that points 2, 2a and 3 are themselves part of the broader issue of a completely defunct and unfit for purpose monetary system.
Answer me this: If our physical and educational resources haven't changed with regard to healthcare provision since 2008, why should it be harder to provide?

mariaalice wrote: »

(1) How exactly would you achieve this

End the system of debt based monetary circulation, particularly the fractional reserve system and the system of money generation by loan interest, which ensures that at any given time more money is owed back to banks than is actually owned privately by citizens. The current system is completely moronic, and in my view the only reason it still exists is because not enough people realize how it works fundamentally - no money comes into existence without debt already attached to it, and because of interest, that debt is already more than the amount of money which has just been created. This is quite frankly insane. Couple that with the fractional reserve system and you'll realize that the entire monetary system we have is literally built on a foundation of sand. It makes absolutely no sense, and as I say in my view we only use it because most people fairly assume that something so universal is built on sound mathematical principles. It isn't. It just takes a colossal f*ckup like 2008 to expose this before the game of musical chairs resumes.

what about my right to own property privately and to acquire wealth.

Where have I in any way insinuated that I oppose this? Private property rights are a fundamental core principle of mine, which is why for example I support the Palestinians over Israeli settlers.

(2) would the whole western world not have to change to achieve this.

Not necessarily, but ideally it would - which is why movements like Occupy are worldwide. I believe Guernsey is one economy which has gone solo in abolishing the debt based model of creation, and that seems to have worked out pretty well for them.

mariaalice wrote: »

Genuine question what do the hard left in Irish politics want too happen

I know all the usual stereotype of tax the rich etc but that's just a stereotype and there has to be more to it that that, or are they just a collection of protesters with no real policies.

To answer as a "hard leftist".

The "hard leftists" aim is to eliminate capitalism. That is, the system which contains inherently the production of surplus value, and of the consequent social class structure which forms to control and distribute that surplus. Within this system there is an inherent and perpetual class conflict between capital and labour.

It is within this context that the "hard-leftist" is placed.

While not having any sort of complete alternative to capitalism, the hard leftist is engaging in a process of change and conflict. The hard-leftist will take the side of labour in all struggles in order to bring forth the inherent (and often masked) social class conflict.

Through this process and conflict the hard leftist believes the alternative social system can emerge, that is, through the eventual elimination of the inherent class conflict and logic inherent within capitalism.

At the moment, the "hard left" are in a weak position. The WSM have barely if at all partaken in anti-water charge activities due to "internal restructuring". This despite all the claims of anarchist this and anarchist that. Anarchists are a weak force and have had little to do with anything at the moment.

thomur wrote: »

Eh, I think the government were voted in by the electorate.

Yep, and can be voted out the same way!

End the system of debt based monetary circulation, particularly the fractional reserve system and the system of money generation by loan interest, which ensures that at any given time more money is owed back to banks than is actually owned privately by citizens. The current system is completely moronic, and in my view the only reason it still exists is because not enough people realize how it works fundamentally - no money comes into existence without debt already attached to it, and because of interest, that debt is already more than the amount of money which has just been created. This is quite frankly insane. Couple that with the fractional reserve system and you'll realize that the entire monetary system we have is literally built on a foundation of sand.

What you are advocating, is a return to the gold standard. That system manifestly failed to handle downturns and was a key reason behind the 1929 crash.

The fractional reserve system is a key component in allowing fiscal authorities control the amount of money in the system. That system was use very effectively by the US , which shook off the effects on a banking crisis very quickly. IN Europe, the ECB is "half wedded" to a pseudo gold standard ( called the euro) by Germanys insistence in maintaining a rock solid currency. IN that respect the ECB could not effectively increase the money supply and bail out the euro financial system, instead that system had to , at Germanys insistence, cut and deflate its way out of trouble, That way isnt working well.!!!

The issue at question in Europe isdirectly because the idea of a fiat currency and flexibility in money supply was specifically designed out of the euro, just like the gold standard before it.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You're making quite a leap there, I never in any way said I supported a return to the gold standard or the Bretton Woods. I want a new system entirely.




Again, I have never claimed we did.

You can either have fixed value backed currencies or fiat ones. Unless you intend to start bartering your daughter for milk or something.

Our monetary system allows bubbles to develop in this manner and requires interest based borrowing. Without these factors, crashes wouldn't happen nearly as often and wouldn't cause nearly as much damage as they do.

No , see Canada, but the fact is that crashes are the way the system resolves problems.

Again, if we reformed the banking system from the bottom up, things like bank guarantees would be entirely unnecessary.

" what reforms" where in the world is this a working functioning system

I think to be fair, you're giving good answers but you're failing to understand that I'm not talking about surface reform, I'm talking about an overhaul that goes right down to the root of what a currency is, how it operates, how it is generated, and how it is governed. Not merely reforms which change how the current fundamentals behave - change of the fundamentals themselves.

which we in Ireland are going to bring in unilaterally ????

To give you an analogy, what you're describing is akin to replacing a damaged key on a piano, or tuning its strings, or polishing its surface. What I'm proposing is that we throw the piano away and give drums a try. Or guitars, or trumpets, or triangles, or whatever.

Make sense?

in a land populated by make believe characters, yes.

It a bit like saying, lets abandon wheels, and lets use a "new" and wonderful means of rolling goods around. the rest of us stand around wondering WTF is he smoking.