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Occupy Movement right about global recession (see MOD WARNING Post #14)
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Yes it's amusing the level posters go trying to 'pooh pooh' Occupy
I mean it clearly offends, as much as posters try to disclaim that, as the level of sneering against the whole movement (and it's not just against ODS) usually revolves around arguments over petty issues, that deliberately ignore the primary generalized goals of the group, and instead focuses on specific issues from fractious parts of Occupy, which are specifically what the movement overall has avoided taking on as core policy.
The arguments always rely upon treating Occupy as a group with homogeneous policies, and fallaciously generalizing one parts policies onto the entire group, when their policies are not homogeneous but deliberately generalized and non-specific.
Again, it's really an attack on protesting itself, or on the very idea of trying to tackle income inequality, as that is one of the only base defining goals of the protest movement (and that is its power, as that goal will stay standing, where individual policies may not, giving the movement longevity to resurge later, even when support wanes now).
Came across this article on the topic earlier (some good and very relevant discussion in comments)
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/10/bank-of-englands-anthony-haldane-deems-occupy-a-success.html0 -
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No, the problem is that they resemble incoherent rabble. "Generalized and non-specific policies" = "no policies". How can they claim credit for something as a movement when they didn't call for something as a movement. It'd be a bit like the GAA claiming they were right about the recession because Paddy from Ballybog expressed an opinion down the pub after a match that there wasn't enough regulation.KyussBishop wrote: »Yes it's amusing the level posters go trying to 'pooh pooh' Occupy I mean it clearly offends, as much as posters try to disclaim that, as the level of sneering against the whole movement (and it's not just against ODS) usually revolves around arguments over petty issues, that deliberately ignore the primary generalized goals of the group, and instead focuses on specific issues from fractious parts of Occupy, which are specifically what the movement overall has avoided taking on as core policy.
The arguments always rely upon treating Occupy as a group with homogeneous policies, and fallaciously generalizing one parts policies onto the entire group, when their policies are not homogeneous but deliberately generalized and non-specific.
Or here's another example. I (Yore) think that Ireland needs a new childrens hospital. I await my medal in a few years when (if) there's one built. Perhaps boards.ie can now claim the credit for causing it to happen and making the government realise it was needed.KyussBishop wrote: »Again, it's really an attack on protesting itself, or on the very idea of trying to tackle income inequality, as that is one of the only base defining goals of the protest movement (and that is its power, as that goal will stay standing, where individual policies may not, giving the movement longevity to resurge later, even when support wanes now).
No. See earlier posts. They don't give a shite about real income inequality. They're just very rich people who want more of what the very very rich people have.
It's not a "movement" for Christ's sake. It's just rabble. If they can't agree on a policy, how would they ever implement a change? Because they wouldn't be able to agree how to do it. If one gets his way, sure all the others will start attacking him then.
It's just protest for the sake of protest. Or another word for it - tantrumKyussBishop wrote: »Came across this article on the topic earlier (some good and very relevant discussion in comments)
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/10/bank-of-englands-anthony-haldane-deems-occupy-a-success.html
Sorry, I didn't bother clicking on the link. If you are relying on a website called "nakedcapitalism" and referencing discussions in the comments, then I'm not expecting a balanced discussion. You might as well be directing me to stormfront website to read some "interesting discussions" on people from Africa.0 -
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KyussBishop wrote: »Yes it's amusing the level posters go trying to 'pooh pooh' Occupy I mean it clearly offends, as much as posters try to disclaim that, as the level of sneering against the whole movement (and it's not just against ODS) usually revolves around arguments over petty issues, that deliberately ignore the primary generalized goals of the group, and instead focuses on specific issues from fractious parts of Occupy, which are specifically what the movement overall has avoided taking on as core policy.
You have claimed you aren't familiar with Occupy so why are you commenting?
Their "primary generalized" (whatever that is) goals have changed and fluctuated depending on what stage they were at, where they were located and which direction the wind was blowing.
A random group of protesters united by grievances with everything under the sun.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
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This post had been deleted.
Link to his speech here:
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/speeches/2012/616.aspx
He's very unequivocal about the contribution Occupy made. The bit you consider ludicrous is just the start of what he said.
Have been looking up a few of his other speeches he's been saying the same things about the need for reform and the dangers of the current setup for a while now in front of many different audiences. That he's "going rogue" lying or something doesn't stand up to the evidence. Will post more about it later.0
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