A Golden Dawn in Greece

Invader_Zimmy · 11-05-2012 11:35pm #1

People in Greece are being fed up with their failed politicians that has lead the country to a collapse. Can Golden Dawn help clean up all the corruption?

According to the news i read half the police officers in Greece voted for Golden Dawn, therefore I think this party probably best represents Law & Order.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/one_every_two_police_officers_voted_golden_dawn/6853

I have great hopes for this party.

RubyRoss · 11-05-2012 11:42pm

So you're just waiting for a storm to brew about neo-Nazi parties?

Invader_Zimmy · 11-05-2012 11:54pm

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

K-9 · 12-05-2012 12:11am

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

To quote the article in your post:

"I am a fascist and a supporter of Golden Dawn. I will speak and do whatever I want."

Doesn't seem very patriotic to me.

wes · 12-05-2012 12:25am

Its really sad that far to many Europeans countries, can't quite shake extremists like Neo-Nazi groups. While main stream parties have a lot of faults, there a 1000 times superior to these nutty extremist groups.

golden lane · 12-05-2012 12:29am

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

as greece depended on eu handouts for so many years in the past.....

patriotism......is a very hungry belly.................

RichardAnd · 12-05-2012 1:45am

wes wrote: »

Its really sad that far to many Europeans countries, can't quite shake extremists like Neo-Nazi groups. While main stream parties have a lot of faults, there a 1000 times superior to these nutty extremist groups.

Extremists go hand in hand with economic upheaval. People all across Europe are loosing faith in what might be known as "traditional" political groups as they see them as being part of a failed system, a view not without merit. Thus, it's not surprising that extremist parties are gaining ground.

nursextreme · 12-05-2012 5:20am

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

Okay! Will try and keep an opened mind on the Golden Dawn Party! What do you think they stand for apart from "Patriotism" which is a very loose term which could do with defining in terms of this particular context.
If there was an Irish version of the party - What would the offer the voters by way of manifesto, policies etc. Who would they appeal to apart from "Patriots" of course :rolleyes:
50% of Greek Police officers voted for Golden Dawn in the recent election, could you honestly see that happening with an Irish version of the party.

nursextreme · 12-05-2012 5:26am

RichardAnd wrote: »

Extremists go hand in hand with economic upheaval. People all across Europe are loosing faith in what might be known as "traditional" political groups as they see them as being part of a failed system, a view not without merit. Thus, it's not surprising that extremist parties are gaining ground.

Agreed, but we need a sensible alternative to the traditional political parties as opposed to a number of extremist parties with no really viable agenda. What that sensible alternative is we can only dream of considering our electorate.

fianna saor · 12-05-2012 5:46am

im not so sure, if a nationalist party that were well organised and put proper policies in place and not these clowns that masquerade as the above would do fairly well in elections in the current climate

Sierra Oscar · 12-05-2012 12:24pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

We do not have to confide in journalists in order recognise the bruteish and thuggish manner in which the Golden Dawn operate. There is plenty of source material to demonstrate this outside the realm of journalism.

Their hard core supporters are nothing but a pack of thugs.

HamletOrHecuba · 12-05-2012 12:46pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

Mate the Popular Orthodox Party are simply patriots with the interests of Hellenic civilization in mind- the Golden Dawn are actually neo-Nazies though they have dropped the twisted neo-paganism of that defined so much of their past of late.

Ellis Dee · 12-05-2012 12:52pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

People in Greece are being fed up with their failed politicians that has lead the country to a collapse. Can Golden Dawn help clean up all the corruption?

According to the news i read half the police officers in Greece voted for Golden Dawn, therefore I think this party probably best represents Law & Order.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/one_every_two_police_officers_voted_golden_dawn/6853

I have great hopes for this party.

Lots of people had great hopes for this fellow as well:

Media in several European countries outside Greece have published articles describing how Golden Dawn self-appointed vigilante groups have been stopping foreigner-looking people in parts of Athens and other places in Greece, demanding ID and in general intimidating them. That is clearly against Greek law. How would you like it if similar loutish thugs started stopping and searching people in the streets of Dublin? And what right have they to usurp the powers of the police, who answer to democratically elected political masters?:rolleyes:

They also use the Nazi salute - in a country that fought valiantly to try and stop the invading Germans and suffered terribly under them.:eek::eek:

Golden Dawn and their soul-bretheren in many other European countries are purely and simply scum (sorry, Black Swan, I'll rephrase that to "not such nice people":)), who hate democracy and freedom, but most of whom are just too bestially thick to understand that the kind of demagogues egging them on would have no more respect for civil rights and freedoms than Hitler and the Nazis did. They are just like the stupid Haudegen and silly bullies who thought a leader who condemned any hint of decency had all the answers. Millions of them then became torturers and murderers, and ended up losing their lives before their country wised up and returned to democracy.:) To paraphrase Winston Churchill, democracy often sucks, but not quite as much as the alternatives.:D

Here in Finland we have a similar lot of xenophobic, anti-multicultural fools - the so-called True Finns - who think foreigners are to blame for all their problems. One of them recently called for immigrants to be required to wear an identifying armband. When it was pointed out that such calls are illegal under hate laws in Finland, the explanation was that it was "meant as a joke".

I'm not laughing, and neither is anyone else.:(:(

Least of all our Jewish citizens:

Invader_Zimmy · 12-05-2012 1:03pm

These "thugs" as you call it are only protecting their homes against criminal elements in society. You still have the right to protect your home. For example there offices have been firebombed by leftist terrorists, off course they have to use violence to protect themselves.

20Cent · 12-05-2012 1:06pm

The popularity of this group is very disturbing, financial hardship causes people to look for someone to blame. Video below showing a Golden Dawn press conference, starts with a skinhead character ordering everyone to stand up to show "respect". They are clearly nazi's even look at their symbol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4AXJx3IzdY

Bannasidhe · 12-05-2012 1:17pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

These "thugs" as you call it are only protecting their homes against criminal elements in society. You still have the right to protect your home. For example there offices have been firebombed by leftist terrorists, off course they have to use violence to protect themselves.

Of course the fact that they see immigrants as 'criminal elements' is beside the point. They are self-appointed vigilantes placing themselves above the law - that in itself is criminal.

We have seen all of this before - the last time we had a global recession of current proportions there was an increase in extremest political parties on the Right and the Left.

Let's ask our EU partners Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain and Portugal, France, Poland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium etc how life under Fascism turned out for them shall we?

thecommietommy · 12-05-2012 1:28pm

nursextreme wrote: »

Okay! Will try and keep an opened mind on the Golden Dawn Party! What do you think they stand for apart from "Patriotism" which is a very loose term which could do with defining in terms of this particular context.
If there was an Irish version of the party - What would the offer the voters by way of manifesto, policies etc. Who would they appeal to apart from "Patriots" of course :rolleyes:
50% of Greek Police officers voted for Golden Dawn in the recent election, could you honestly see that happening with an Irish version of the party.

Some people would say that's Sinn Fein

Though somehow I don't see 50% of the Guards voting SF !!!!

RichieC · 12-05-2012 5:20pm

Oh great news for Greece, one out of every two police officers is a neo nazi.. :rolleyes:

rejoice!

Ellis Dee · 12-05-2012 6:40pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

These "thugs" as you call it are only protecting their homes against criminal elements in society. You still have the right to protect your home. For example there offices have been firebombed by leftist terrorists, off course they have to use violence to protect themselves.

OK, I get it. Someone (who is unknown, because no one has been arrested for it) firebombs the office of an organisation to which you belong and that makes it OK to intimidate and perhaps beat up someone who looks like, say, a Pakistani or an Arab or just plain foreign, based entirely on your assumption that the person you victimise is guilty by association. Thank you for helping me understand.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

woodoo · 12-05-2012 8:31pm

RichieC wrote: »

Oh great news for Greece, one out of every two police officers is a neo nazi.. :rolleyes:

If that is true then people need to be finding out why and not just sweeping it under the carpet. It is not good enough to just label them fascists. That is far too high a percentage to be ignored.

jank · 13-05-2012 7:51am

One thing I always find curious is that these neo-nazi groups are rightly critised however, members of the communist party in Greece or anywhere really don't get the same treatment from the press or international media. They are both two sides of the same coin imo. One side gets a free pass because "they mean well".

books4sale · 13-05-2012 8:17am

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

People in Greece are being fed up with their failed politicians that has lead the country to a collapse. Can Golden Dawn help clean up all the corruption?

According to the news i read half the police officers in Greece voted for Golden Dawn, therefore I think this party probably best represents Law & Order.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/one_every_two_police_officers_voted_golden_dawn/6853

I have great hopes for this party.

Who are you?...>>>>>>with your three posts and a new account on May 2012.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-05-2012 9:42am

jank wrote: »

One thing I always find curious is that these neo-nazi groups are rightly critised however, members of the communist party in Greece or anywhere really don't get the same treatment from the press or international media. They are both two sides of the same coin imo. One side gets a free pass because "they mean well".

do communist groups go around beating up immigrants and killing people *before* they get into power?

i guess the neo nazis just try harder so they get more attention

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 11:00am

They also give food, clothes and shoes to poor people. What kind of "thug" would do that?

RubyRoss · 13-05-2012 4:58pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do communist groups go around beating up immigrants and killing people *before* they get into power?

i guess the neo nazis just try harder so they get more attention

Eitherway, it's sad that instead of parties calling for renewed democracit values, there is a push towards extreme fascist and communist positions. Mainstream politics is in a serious funk.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 5:07pm

RubyRoss wrote: »

Eitherway, it's sad that instead of parties calling for renewed democracit values, there is a push towards extreme fascist and communist positions. Mainstream politics is in a serious funk.

Mainstream politics caused the problems Greece are suffering from today, surely no reasonable person could believe that more mainstream politics will be the solution?

Nodin · 13-05-2012 5:10pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They also give food, clothes and shoes to poor people. What kind of "thug" would do that?

"thug" perhaps not, but charity is hardly exclusive to moderates.

dsmythy · 13-05-2012 6:26pm

Half of all police officers voting for Golden Dawn is disturbing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do communist groups go around beating up immigrants and killing people *before* they get into power?

i guess the neo nazis just try harder so they get more attention

Communists do equal opportunity mass murder. Doesn't matter the colour of your skin, one bullet in the head.

Benny_Cake · 13-05-2012 7:02pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They also give food, clothes and shoes to poor people. What kind of "thug" would do that?

Hate to invoke Godwin's Law but this cries out for it - the Nazi's carried out significant charity work on behalf of the poor too (Winter Aid). This doesn't change the fact that they were a bunch of thugs, and the same goes for Golden Dawn.

leincar · 13-05-2012 7:06pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

People in Greece are being fed up with their failed politicians that has lead the country to a collapse. Can Golden Dawn help clean up all the corruption?

According to the news i read half the police officers in Greece voted for Golden Dawn, therefore I think this party probably best represents Law & Order.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/one_every_two_police_officers_voted_golden_dawn/6853

I have great hopes for this party.

I have not read any other posts in this thread, and I don't want to wheather they are pro or anti Golden Dawn.

I however as a European who has lived in Israel, the U.K. and the U.S. before coming home to Ireland, and has a Jewish wife and daughters(5 of the little treasures) am absolutely disgusted that you could probably think that this bunch of the dregs of Greek humanity could possibly be an answer, not only to Greek but European problems.

Have you had a proper look at their manifesto?. They are a Greek version of the NSDAP of the mid 1920's Germany, and look what happened there.

They breed on hate and hate alone to promote themselves to an underclass of people who through their own fault, their parents fault, or lack of opportunity like the tone of the message. It will do nothing but bite them and draw blood on their collective arse's.

I don't care what your personal political beliefs are, but to think that Golden Dawn are the answer tells me a lot as to your personal intellect.

Before you attack me as I'm sure you will try to, I also despise the hard left such as Sinn Fein and People before Profit as as usual politics of either end of the spectrum offer nothing except disharmony.

laoch na mona · 13-05-2012 7:11pm

fascism always works right:rolleyes:

seriously how hasn't this thread been closed

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 7:28pm

leincar wrote: »

I have not read any other posts in this thread, and I don't want to wheather they are pro or anti Golden Dawn.

I however as a European who has lived in Israel, the U.K. and the U.S. before coming home to Ireland, and has a Jewish wife and daughters(5 of the little treasures) am absolutely disgusted that you could probably think that this bunch of the dregs of Greek humanity could possibly be an answer, not only to Greek but European problems.

Have you had a proper look at their manifesto?. They are a Greek version of the NSDAP of the mid 1920's Germany, and look what happened there.

They breed on hate and hate alone to promote themselves to an underclass of people who through their own fault, their parents fault, or lack of opportunity like the tone of the message. It will do nothing but bite them and draw blood on their collective arse's.

I don't care what your personal political beliefs are, but to think that Golden Dawn are the answer tells me a lot as to your personal intellect.

Before you attack me as I'm sure you will try to, I also despise the hard left such as Sinn Fein and People before Profit as as usual politics of either end of the spectrum offer nothing except disharmony.

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

thebman · 13-05-2012 7:35pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

fascism always works right:rolleyes:

seriously how hasn't this thread been closed

Because it is important to let crazy people have their say so they don't believe most people think like them and they are just being oppressed by a minority in the society who they will brand the elite

Nodin · 13-05-2012 7:38pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

I'd imagine its the racism, anti-semitism, torch lit parades, a particular salute and the strange feeling of deja vu that bother him.

RichieC · 13-05-2012 7:50pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They protect their fellow citizens from dangers criminals and kick out the local drug dealers from their areas. Do you consider this to be a bad thing?

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-05-2012 7:53pm

RichieC wrote: »

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

turning libertarian on us?

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 7:56pm

RichieC wrote: »

Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither. - Ben Franklin.

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

I am pie · 13-05-2012 8:00pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

No, no it is not.

Fraudulent entry into currency union followed by global financial crisis combined with poor tax take and massive overspending are the root cause of the current greek problems.

golden lane · 13-05-2012 8:02pm

whoever the greek people vote for....it is their choice...............and theirs alone....

denying them that choice....will result in extremeism....

Ellis Dee · 13-05-2012 8:03pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

They also give food, clothes and shoes to poor people. What kind of "thug" would do that?

Look upon it as an investment. "Pump-priming", as it were. :)The Nazis in Germany did the same and it is common practice for all kinds of groups with really nasty agendas to practise "good deeds" and "charity" as part of their window dressing. The youngsters in the Hitlerjugend were really great at helping old ladies across busy streets. It was only later, as adults, that they were more likely to be shepherding Jews, Roma and other "Untermenschen" into the "showers".:rolleyes::rolleyes:.

When they get power their concern for the weak, vulnerable and underprivileged rapidly evaporates. Not to mention human rights or democratic freedoms.

If anyone is interested, today's Daily Torygraph (hardly a leftist rag by any stretch of the imagination) has an interesting article by Christopher Humphries about "Golden" Dawn:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/9260339/This-week-in-Athens-I-saw-my-first-Sieg-Heil.html

Nodin · 13-05-2012 8:11pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

News to me. You've a source for that, I trust?

femur61 · 13-05-2012 8:54pm

Sky News, and most other news sources the Greeks don't want to leave the Euro but they are dragging the whole Eurozone down. If they want money they have to play ball. They want to tear up the bailout agreement and still have the money and the euro. Makes no sense either they abide by agreement or don't and leave.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 8:56pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

It is wrong to label them Neo-nazis, they are simply patriots with the best interests of the Greek people in mind. Please do not fall for the lies that journalists are spreading about Golden Dawn.

mainstream journalism will always spread lies about parties that have different opinions other than the 'normal'. people who have anti immigration views are shunned even by those who agree but are too afraid to speak out

woodoo · 13-05-2012 9:00pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

If they have people in their country that shouldn't be there then send them home. The same should happen right throughout Europe. But i think these guys only want Greeks full stop. They don't even want legal migrants.

Invader_Zimmy · 13-05-2012 9:03pm

Nodin wrote: »

News to me. You've a source for that, I trust?

As I said, immigration is causing a great burden to the Greek economy. http://www.economist.com/node/16847278 Here is more information how illegal immigration is destabilising Greece.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-05-2012 9:04pm

fianna saor wrote: »

mainstream journalism will always spread lies about parties that have different opinions other than the 'normal'. people who have anti immigration views are shunned even by those who agree but are too afraid to speak out

theres probably some truth in the second part of that.. but it's also true that a lot of what is dressed up as "anti immigration views" is just old fashioned racism.

leincar · 13-05-2012 9:26pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

fascism always works right:rolleyes:

seriously how hasn't this thread been closed

I have to disagree there. I dislike isms be they on the left wing or right wing. I definately don't do religious fundamentalisms of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish variety.

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Two people on this thread have posted or liked a post. On a lot of issues I would disagree with them yet on issues like this both Nodin and Wes would share my opinion despite our political differences.

You never shut people up because their politics and opinions differ with your own.

Benny_Cake · 13-05-2012 9:32pm

leincar wrote: »

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Indeed, before the election the Greek media largely ignored Golden Dawn as they felt they should avoid providing them with a platform. That didn't go so well, far better to exposed them for the boorish thugs that they are.

leincar · 13-05-2012 9:39pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

Your solution is to let millions of migrants come into the country and wreak havoc I suppose? This is what has happened in Greece.

Thats a downright falsehood. I have had reason to go to Greece a couple of times over the last Two years. I posted from Athens on this forum on a couple of occassions. A person who I had meetings with was under me by at least five pay grades if not more, he can retire at 52 despite the fact that he works for a private company.

I earn a seven figure salary after tax, if I retire at 52 it'll be by my own work and grind, and not a state saying so.

In a hotel I stayed in, the concierge could retire at 50 on approximately 37/40ths of his final salary(index linked). His retirement was based on the simple fact that he had spent his working life on his feet.

The above two examples were not caused by immigrants but pure and simple greed and collusion on behalf of both the Greek government and unions.

As for crime, it happenes everywhere. In the last week I posted that my car tyres had been slashed in Carlow town. Crap happens everywhere no matter the colour of your skin, the God you do or do not believe in or the smell of your faeces.

fianna saor · 13-05-2012 9:47pm

leincar wrote: »

I have to disagree there. I dislike isms be they on the left wing or right wing. I definately don't do religious fundamentalisms of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish variety.

However, by giving the people who support these isms a voice it shows up their pure and utter ignorance and the fact that they could all do with a bloody good kick in the arse.

Two people on this thread have posted or liked a post. On a lot of issues I would disagree with them yet on issues like this both Nodin and Wes would share my opinion despite our political differences.

You never shut people up because their politics and opinions differ with your own.

have to say thats the most sensible post from 'that side of the argument' lets say. many people here have different views to my own but i would never wish to shut them up because of that reason and vice versa. people who come to light with such views are usually classed as 'extremists, nutters, nazis, commis,etc' because their politics are radically different. ive often heard the phrase 'if history has taught us anything' in an argument against radical change, but the same could be said for mainstream politics lets say for example if history has taught us the likes of fianna fail has screwed this country but lets go ahead and vote the nearest thing to them into government.

Nodin · 13-05-2012 9:58pm

Invader_Zimmy wrote: »

As I said, immigration is causing a great burden to the Greek economy. http://www.economist.com/node/16847278 Here is more information how illegal immigration is destabilising Greece.

Of the 106,200 people detected trying to cross illegally into the European Union in 2009, almost three-quarters were stopped in Greece (see chart).

I'm not seeing "millions of migrants" wrecking Greece there, which is what you stated. Nor does anyone link the countries problems to that.

A Golden Dawn in Greece

Comments