Landlord wants to kick us out after signing a four year lease

Dub. · 28-01-2015 4:05am #1

Posting this for my wonderful neighbour.

Landlord is kicking a family out of their home

Hi, some advice appreciated. Signed a new four year RAS agreement with the landlord after the previous four year deal had run out. There has been damp in my kids room for a few months. The new four year RAS agreement however gave me a bit of confidence to deal with the problem, i thought, and i asked him to deal with the damp in the kids bedroom.

Result? He has had some lad paint the wall with chemicals, though the damp has returned already. And now he has sent me an eviction notice, claiming he needs my home as his son wants to move in.

I feel he is just punishing me and my kids for complaining about the damp.

Can i appeal against this eviction? It seems so unfair after my family have made this place our home for so long.

TireeTerror · 28-01-2015 4:09am

If the landlord requires the home to sell or for immediate family members he has the right to evict you.

It is his house and if he wants it back, then you should be accepting of that. Look on the bright side, if its damp and he has not properly fixed it, then why would you want your children sleeping in a damp room? Get out and find somewhere even better!

DaraDali · 28-01-2015 4:10am

At least you don't have to move out for I think 112 days.

Calhoun · 28-01-2015 4:11am

TireeTerror wrote: »

If the landlord requires the home to sell or for immediate family members he has the right to evict you.

It is his house and if he wants it back, then you should be accepting of that. Look on the bright side, if its damp and he has not properly fixed it, then why would you want your children sleeping in a damp room? Get out and find somewhere even better!

Contract law might disagree with you there, I am not sure what conditions are attached to the ras lease but if it's anything like a fixed term her cannot.

Would advise you contact threshold for advice.

foggy_lad · 28-01-2015 4:12am

Op get onto the RAS coordinator in your local council and arrange a meeting to see what they might havenbavailable for your family! Do this asap!

Dub. · 28-01-2015 4:29am

TireeTerror wrote: »

If the landlord requires the home to sell or for immediate family members he has the right to evict you.

It is his house and if he wants it back, then you should be accepting of that. Look on the bright side, if its damp and he has not properly fixed it, then why would you want your children sleeping in a damp room? Get out and find somewhere even better!

This is my home. It is my house. Me and my kids have been living here for years.

Dub. · 28-01-2015 4:33am

foggy_lad wrote: »

Op get onto the RAS coordinator in your local council and arrange a meeting to see what they might havenbavailable for your family! Do this asap!

They have told me to ignore the landlord as it will take at least a year for him to evict us.?

cerastes · 28-01-2015 4:40am

Dub. wrote: »

This is my home. It is my house. Me and my kids have been living here foears.

Its your home but its his house. Its a legitimate reason to want it back, maybe its genuine.still being told to ignore the landlord is foolish advice,to what extent do you intend to follow this?

Dub. · 28-01-2015 4:52am

cerastes wrote: »

Its your home but its his house. Its a legitimate reason to want it back, maybe its genuine.still being told to ignore the landlord is foolish advice,to what extent do you intend to follow this?

You may have missed the point of the thread. I signed a four year RAS agreement with my landlord in December, in January i asked him to deal with the damp in my kids bedroom, a week later he has cancelled the four year agreement because he says his son needs to move into my kids home.

Do you really think that sounds genuine?

cerastes · 28-01-2015 5:01am

Dub. wrote: »

You may have missed the point of the thread. I signed a four year RAS agreement with my landlord in December, in January i asked him to deal with the damp in my kids bedroom, a week later he has cancelled the four year agreement because he says his son needs to move into my kids home.

Do you really think that sounds genuine?

It may be genuine,maybe he knows or doesn't think the problem will be resolved,wants to fix it but getting someone in to do it while a tenant is there may not be realistic? I don't know the circumstance of a RAS lease but getting back a property for your own use or a family member is a legitimate reason, its hard to dispute it unless you can prove afterwards that this did not occur or if the property was advertised, then you may have a case. From your situation I can see this isn't a convenient event to face, has there been any other problems?
As for leases, normally first 6 months is when you can give someone notice anyway,regardless of any prior 4 years or more, having said that so it would seem unusual to sign a lease and then want to end it, maybe it is genuine and the damp thing is just a coincidence? Why don't you ask him?, unless there's conditions to that in RAS leases, but my understanding is each one is specific to the circumstance??
I suggest you don't ignore the landlord,that will only confirm or create problems, in the least they can't force you out and you need time to find a replacement place,you may have a chip to bargain with.

Dub. · 28-01-2015 5:04am

Can anyone tell me if i can appeal against this eviction? Both my kids have vitally important exams in May and this eviction is destroying whatever chances they have.

Dub. · 28-01-2015 5:14am

cerastes wrote: »

It may be genuine,maybe he knows or doesn't think the problem will be resolved,wants to fix it but getting someone in to do it while a tenant is there may not be realistic? I don't know the circumstance of a RAS lease but getting back a property for your own use or a family member is a legitimate reason, its hard to dispute it unless you can prove afterwards that this did not occur or if the property was advertised, then you may have a case. From your situation I can see this isn't a convenient event to face, has there been any other problems?
As for leases, normally first 6 months is when you can give someone notice anyway,regardless of any prior 4 years or more, having said that so it would seem unusual to sign a lease and then want to end it, maybe it is genuine and the damp thing is just a coincidence? Why don't you ask him?, unless there's conditions to that in RAS leases, but my understanding is each one is specific to the circumstance??
I suggest you don't ignore the landlord,that will only confirm or create problems, in the least they can't force you out and you need time to find a replacement place,you may have a chip to bargain with.

Just to be clear, my family have been living here for seven years, and we signed a new four year tenancy agreement last December 2014 . We received the eviction order this January after i complained about the damp in my kids bedroom.

percy212 · 28-01-2015 5:16am

Threshold gave you good advice. I would do what they say.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 5:24am

Dub. wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if i can appeal against this eviction? Both my kids have vitally important exams in May and this eviction is destroying whatever chances they have.

For a start,speak to your landlord,raise this with him,appeal (however unwilling or unhappy you think this might seem or feel about that) to his good nature, if that gets him to change his mind,good, if not don't burden your kids with any concern about it,or even mention it at this stage.don't do anything that might not make it possible to appeal to the landlords better nature.
I suggest you check your lease conditions but I still think even with a RAS lease if they really want it back they can.
He might be able to say his son is in the same situation, if he is insistent then look for places and keep a record of your searches, it might be possible to hold out till the exams are over or go as early as possible if there is a bargaining point in it for you,especially while there is goodwill.
That may not exist if you stay on and it happens his son really does need the place, I'd appeal/speak to the landlord first before appealing anywhere else.

Dub. · 28-01-2015 5:35am

percy212 wrote: »

Threshold gave you good advice. I would do what they say.

what advice have Threshold given me?

The only advice i have received is from the people at RAS, and they are telling me to ignore the landlord.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 6:07am

percy212 wrote: »

Threshold gave you good advice. I would do what they say.

They didn't advise him that,its bad advice anyway, he could hold out for his kids exams,but just being polite and civil while still maintaining contact, anything else will just get him bad will from the landlord and no bargaining power, appeal to the landlords better nature, if that doesn't work, just say youre looking but need to make sure the kids get their exams done, you may get something better anyway, maybe but I don't recommend ignoring anything or anyone. Eventually after that he may still expect the tenant to go or he may change his mind? But he probably won't forget if the tenant has been in anyway difficult.

zuber · 28-01-2015 6:41am

Dub. wrote: »

Can anyone tell me if i can appeal against this eviction? Both my kids have vitally important exams in May and this eviction is destroying whatever chances they have.

If the landlord legitimately requires the property for a family member- he is entitled to give you notice to quit.

The_Conductor · 28-01-2015 7:54am

OP- If you are on the RAS scheme- the landlord is probably getting below market rent to begin with. If the landlord does have a family member who needs accommodation- and a property that is being let at below market value- and a tenant who after a number of years suddenly starts making demands pretty much immediately after signing a new tenancy- is the landlord being unfair? Most people in the landlord's position- would view it as- they are subsidising a tenant, the tenant may have been a good tenant- but as soon as they got a new lease- they started acting up. That the landlord has a family member- who also needs accommodation- is just the icing on the cake.

If its at the end of a 4 year cycle, or provided for in RAS scheme terms- the landlord can end a tenancy without giving reason- if however a family member requires the property- they are entitled to serve requisite notice on the tenant, to vacate the tenancy.

Totally aside from anything else- look at the issue the tenant is complaining about- severe damp has suddenly appeared in one of the bedrooms. At a very minimum- this sounds like an issue has arisen that needs to be investigated and remedied. It does not sound like a minor job that could be tackled without a team having full access to the property. It could be a problem with the roof, with plumbing, with the walls, with the windows- who knows. It may have caused trouble elsewhere- before manifesting itself in the bedroom- there could be other problems hidden from view- who knows.

Who is to say how serious the problem is.

The OP can dig in their heels and refuse to move- overstaying their notice- and allow the landlord initiate eviction proceedings against them. Personally- I'd rather leave on my own terms- than go through the court process and get turfed out legally.

At this point- the OP needs to contact the council and advise that the RAS tenancy has been terminated and they require rehoming.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 8:31am

When was the lease signed OP?

yankinlk · 28-01-2015 8:36am

Dub. wrote: »

what advice have Threshold given me?

The only advice i have received is from the people at RAS, and they are telling me to ignore the landlord.

further evidence that no lanldlord should ever consider signing a RAS contract ever again.

yankinlk · 28-01-2015 8:37am

Dub. wrote: »

This is my home. It is my house. Me and my kids have been living here for years.

then why dont you spend some money and do up yer house.

maggiepip · 28-01-2015 8:48am

Dub. wrote: »

what advice have Threshold given me?

The only advice i have received is from the people at RAS, and they are telling me to ignore the landlord.

Cant believe RAS dished out that advice, if its true its disgraceful.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 8:53am

maggiepip wrote: »

Cant believe RAS dished out that advice, if its true its disgraceful.

Why is it disgraceful. If the OP has a fixed term lease the landlord cannot evict. Despite the incorrect information posted on this forum over and over and over again.

Graham · 28-01-2015 8:55am

OP, your neighbour needs to find the lease agreement and get professional advice. Without viewing the agreement, much of the advice you are getting is complete guesswork.

There may be circumstances under which requiring the house for a family member is NOT valid reason for terminating a tenancy.

yankinlk · 28-01-2015 8:56am

maggiepip wrote: »

Cant believe RAS dished out that advice, if its true its disgraceful.

RAS is not run centrally. its done ad hoc ... at each CC office. the quality of info given is not uniform. the rules applied are different, how they pay and how much they pay is different. im not surprised, just like the amateur landlords out there and the reluctant landlords, the ras employees are making it up as they go along.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 8:57am

drumswan wrote: »

Why is it disgraceful. If the OP has a fixed term lease the landlord cannot evict. Despite the incorrect information posted on this forum over and over and over again.

If you can use IF, then your post doesnt stand up on its own and is as likely Incorrect, OP needs to check their lease, see what it says.
If it isnt fixed term then there is little they can do.

Riverireland · 28-01-2015 9:00am

Dub. wrote: »

You may have missed the point of the thread. I signed a four year RAS agreement with my landlord in December, in January i asked him to deal with the damp in my kids bedroom, a week later he has cancelled the four year agreement because he says his son needs to move into my kids home.

Do you really think that sounds genuine?

I think you should fight this and I hope you get a good result. However, laws in Ireland are heavily Weighed in favour of the landlords. A private rented house probably shouldn't be looked at your children's home other than short to medium term. The only long term housing in this country you either buy or get from the council. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise and the best of luck in this situation.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:00am

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/rental_accommodation_scheme.html

Needing the property for a family member is not valid grounds for eviction under a fixed term lease. RAS tenancies are governed under the residential tenancies act 2004.

mada82 · 28-01-2015 9:00am

It's not your house. It's the landlords house.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:02am

cerastes wrote: »

If you can use IF, then your post doesnt stand up on its own and is as likely Incorrect, OP needs to check their lease, see what it says.
If it isnt fixed term then there is little they can do.

Try reading the op.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 9:03am

drumswan wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/rental_accommodation_scheme.html

Needing the property for a family member is not valid grounds for eviction under a fixed term lease. RAS tenancies are governed under the residential tenancies act 2004.

We dont know that, you keep bringing it up though. Under the RTA 2004, a landlord can ask for the property back for sale or family or own use, the OP needs to check their lease, you harping on about a fixed term lease till its confirmed doesnt add anything.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:09am

cerastes wrote: »

We dont know that, you keep bringing it up though. Under the RTA 2004, a landlord can ask for the property back for sale or family or own use, the OP needs to check their lease, you harping on about a fixed term lease till its confirmed doesnt add anything.

If we don't know it why are you saying that the landlord can evict?

Graham · 28-01-2015 9:09am

mada82 wrote: »

It's not your house. It's the landlords house.

When a landlord rents out a house he willingly foregoes some of the rights he may have previously had and accepts certain obligations.

A tenant may not own the house but it is still his/her home until the end of a valid notice period in accordance with the RTA and any additional rights granted under a fixed term lease.

Duiske · 28-01-2015 9:09am

yankinlk wrote: »

further evidence that no lanldlord should ever consider signing a RAS contract ever again.

I would suspect the op was given that advice by a misinformed employee. Find it very hard to believe that it is official policy to advise tenants to ignore eviction notices.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:11am

Duiske wrote: »

I would suspect the op was given that advice by a misinformed employee. Find it very hard to believe that it is official policy to advise tenants to ignore eviction notices.

It's entirely correct to advise tenants to ignore invalid eviction notices.

Kinet1c · 28-01-2015 9:11am

There is a get out clause in the contract for both the council and landlord if sufficient notice is provided.

Graham · 28-01-2015 9:13am

drumswan wrote: »

It's entirely correct to advise tenants to ignore invalid eviction notices.

Legally it may be correct, practically it wouldn't be very sensible. Tenant would be much better to clarify his/her position asap and then communicate that clarification to the landlord.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:13am

Kinet1c wrote: »

There is a get out clause in the contract for both the council and landlord if sufficient notice is provided.

Is there a standard RAS lease? Can you post a link? Who on earth would sign a four year lease that allowed the landlord to evict them at any point?

Graham · 28-01-2015 9:16am

Kinet1c wrote: »

There is a get out clause in the contract for both the council and landlord if sufficient notice is provided.

You've seen the contract? Are they the exact same contract for all RAS properties?

Documentation I've seen suggests the contract can't even be terminated if the house is sold.

MouseTail · 28-01-2015 9:18am

I think perhaps people are getting confused between a 4 year lease, and the RAS contract signed for 4 years. The LL can evict under RAS for the reason stated. The RAS Officer is wrong to give advice to over hold, and possibly just doesn't want the hassle of rehousing the family.

The advice given by posters to put pressure on the RAS section is correct. The contract is between the Council and the LL, and the tenant and the Council, not between the tenant and the LL. The Council have a duty to rehouse here.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:18am

Graham wrote: »

Legally it may be correct, practically it wouldn't be very sensible. Tenant would be much better to clarify his/her position asap and then communicate that clarification to the landlord.

I read that as the RAS admin advised to ignore the eviction notice, not ignore the landlord altogether, sorry

The_Morrigan · 28-01-2015 9:19am

Folks before this turns into yet another train wreck of thread whereby half the posters are just arguing among themselves rather than giving constructive advice I will say this.

We want absolutely no discussion of any illegal activities (not paying rent, over staying etc)
We have no idea the terms of the RAS agreement or the scheme
We do not know if the RAS scheme is subject to the RTA 2004

There will be no further warnings - any messing and you will be thread banned.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:21am

MouseTail wrote: »

I think perhaps people are getting confused between a 4 year lease, and the RAS contract signed for 4 years. The LL can evict under RAS for the reason stated. The RAS Officer is wrong to give advice to over hold, and possibly just doesn't want the hassle of rehousing the family.

The advice given by posters to put pressure on the RAS section is correct. The contract is between the Council and the LL, and the tenant and the Council, not between the tenant and the LL. The Council have a duty to rehouse here.

Can you post a source for this? I find it hard to believe that a four year RAS agreement doesn't come with a for year fixed term lease. Otherwise it's utterly valueless for the tenant.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 9:21am

drumswan wrote: »

If we don't know it why are you saying that the landlord can evict?

I said the OP should check their lease, and unless they have a fixed term lease there is little they can do to counter this or words to that effect, Ive offered other advice to appeal to the landlords better nature/judgement. As if the landlord is just offering it to their son because they think the tenant has suddenly become difficult soon after signing a lease, they may not be in a fixed term lease (but the OP should check this) and the landlord would be exercising either a right to give a notice to quit for a family member or own use, the only other options to give notice to quit are within the first 6 months of a tenancy (no reason required and I believe this is even possible if you have had a previous 4 year tenancy) or if the landlord wanted to sell.

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:23am

The_Morrigan wrote: »

We do not know if the RAS scheme is subject to the RTA 2004

Yes we do.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/rental_accommodation_scheme.html

Seamus1964 · 28-01-2015 9:24am

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

For a tenancy that has lasted between 6 months and 4 years – known as a Part 4 tenancy – the landlord can end it only in the following circumstances:

* If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member (son?)
* If the landlord intends to refurbish the property substantially (damp?)

Graham · 28-01-2015 9:27am

Seamus1964 wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

For a tenancy that has lasted between 6 months and 4 years – known as a Part 4 tenancy – the landlord can end it only in the following circumstances:

* If the landlord needs the property for him/herself or for an immediate family member (son?)
* If the landlord intends to refurbish the property substantially (damp?)

Unless there is a fixed term lease that grants the tenant additional rights over and above a part 4.

Seamus1964 · 28-01-2015 9:32am

Sorry, I can't find a link/information about that - would you mind to point it out ,please?

drumswan · 28-01-2015 9:36am

cerastes wrote: »

I said the OP should check their lease, and unless they have a fixed term lease there is little they can do to counter this or words to that effect, Ive offered other advice to appeal to the landlords better nature/judgement. As if the landlord is just offering it to their son because they think the tenant has suddenly become difficult soon after signing a lease, they may not be in a fixed term lease (but the OP should check this) and the landlord would be exercising either a right to give a notice to quit for a family member or own use, the only other options to give notice to quit are within the first 6 months of a tenancy (no reason required and I believe this is even possible if you have had a previous 4 year tenancy) or if the landlord wanted to sell.

Can you have a look at the title of the thread please.

cerastes · 28-01-2015 9:38am

drumswan wrote: »

Can you have a look at the title of the thread please.

Thread title doesnt say its a fixed term lease and even if it did, really the place to look would be in the lease, not the thread title.

Graham · 28-01-2015 9:48am

Seamus1964 wrote: »

Sorry, I can't find a link/information about that - would you mind to point it out ,please?

This is probably more suited to your own thread so I'll be brief

FIXED TERM TENANCIES
Landlords and tenants often enter into a tenancy for a fixed term period. For example a landlord or tenant may agree that the tenancy will be for a period of two years. Usually, the terms of a fixed term tenancy are contained in a lease agreement. A written lease agreement is not necessary however, for a fixed term tenancy to exist, as the Act provides that a fixed term tenancy may also be oral or implied.
FIXED TERM TENANCIES AND PART 4
The existence of a fixed term tenancy does not preclude the operation of Part 4. Part 4 runs with a fixed term tenancy, so that the continuous occupation by a tenant under a fixed term tenancy for a period of 6 months, means the tenant shall, as in normal course, become entitled to the protections of a Part 4 tenancy. In cases of fixed term tenancies however, the rights under Part 4 only apply to the extent that they benefit the tenant over and above the rights afforded to him or her under the terms of the fixed term tenancy.

Landlord wants to kick us out after signing a four year lease

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