Seeking clarification re substitution query

Keane100 · 26-11-2014 8:01pm #1

Long time reader here but first time poster, Would really appreciate an answer to my query from people here in the know, whether teacher or management.

I had the option to opt out of S and S scheme and took that option and the subsequent reduction in pay. Yesterday I was timetabled as per my normal timetable for a 3rd year class but they were absent on a school art trip which one teacher was accompanying them for. Now I know I could be reassigned to cover that teachers class but another teacher on the relevant subject line at that time was already assigned.

I was then placed on the supervision rota for that class period to cover a teacher who was on uncertified leave, is this proper procedure?? There were 2 teachers listed on the actual S and s rota for this period, but they were bypassed and I was the named teacher to cover for this class period on the daily rota on the noticeboard. In my eyes this is wrong, I could have been asked and there would be no issue to cover the art teacher's class but to cover for an absent uncertified colleague surely this is not right, surely the actual teachers on rota for that period as part of the S and S scheme were the go to people in this case?? The scheme that I have taken a pay cut to move outside of, I was informed by a member of senior management that no I could be asked to cover this class as I was freed up by my own class been away for the day.

derb12 · 26-11-2014 9:05pm

Ouch! That is nasty. It sounds like whoever is organising the rota has an axe to grind, as they could so easily have put you covering the class of the teacher who had taken your class out and used regular S&S people for the uncertified cover.
I am curious to see what someone in the know will say, but my understanding is that you have to cover the classes for someone who has freed you up by taking your class but that's it - you aren't just available for whatever supervision needs the school may have.
Lucky you with your opt-out by the way! Very jealous boardsie here!

man_no_plan · 26-11-2014 9:07pm

Some will say yes some will say no.

In my school everyone does s&s so it never arises.

Are you splitting hairs on it? Does it matter if you were in the art room or another room? Perhaps whoever does the cover should have put you in for the art and the other teacher in for the uncertified absence.

Just because you opted out of s and s foes it mean you shouldn't do less than your 22hours while a colleague dies more?

I'm asking the questions not telling you you are right or wrong because I don't know. The hardline view is that you only sub for the teacher who took your class.
If ty are on work experience and you have them ten times a week are you not available for any of that time as no teacher is out with them?

Its a tough one. Simple solution in your case would have been to stick you in for the art teacher and leave it at that. An oversight maybe?

man_no_plan · 26-11-2014 9:14pm

Had a look at the circular 25/2011

Reassignment within timetabled hours

In circumstances where a teacher is timetabled for a class period(s) with a group of students that are participating in an out of school activity which requires the absence from school of another teacher or teachers, the teacher may be reassigned, in accordance with his/her timetable, to facilitate that absence

Could it be argued that in using a free teacher it would take pressure off the s&s scheme and as a result facilitate the absence?

Keane100 · 26-11-2014 9:17pm

derb12 wrote: »

Ouch! That is nasty. It sounds like whoever is organising the rota has an axe to grind, as they could so easily have put you covering the class of the teacher who had taken your class out and used regular S&S people for the uncertified cover.
I am curious to see what someone in the know will say, but my understanding is that you have to cover the classes for someone who has freed you up by taking your class but that's it - you aren't just available for whatever supervision needs the school may have.
Lucky you with your opt-out by the way! Very jealous boardsie here!

Not sure an axe to grind, there were other teachers later on in the day placed in the same position, we currently have no school steward so seeking any advice here but our understanding of it is that the S and S scheme is to be used to cover uncertified absences, and that teachers freed up by an absent class would facilitate the trip by covering the classes of the teacher who is accompanying the trip . Feel fortunate yes that I had the option of opting out, even allowing for the pay cut!!

Keane100 · 26-11-2014 9:24pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

Had a look at the circular 25/2011

Reassignment within timetabled hours

In circumstances where a teacher is timetabled for a class period(s) with a group of students that are participating in an out of school activity which requires the absence from school of another teacher or teachers, the teacher may be reassigned, in accordance with his/her timetable, to facilitate that absence

Could it be argued that in using a free teacher it would take pressure off the s&s scheme and as a result facilitate the absence?

Thank you, must have a look at the circular. Would really hope Im not splitting hairs but maybe I am. My issue is not with doing less than 22 hours or another colleague doing more, I hope it didn't come across that way. I have absolutely no problem with been reassigned to cover the teacher facilitating the trip, I am just wondering I guess as to whether it is correct to use teachers in the position I found myself in to cover teachers who are not on that trip or should cover for uncertified absence on that day come from the S and S rota? There were 2 teachers for this period available on the rota and 3 for a period in the later day involving another colleague so surely it is not the case of the s and s scheme under pressure, the teachers on the rota were not utilised at all but in both cases we were put in ahead of the people on the rota.

Really sorry if I appear to be splitting hairs on this, I would just like to know I suppose should a teacher freed up by a school trip be covering uncertified ahead of people on the rota?

Thank you again for reply and direction to circular

man_no_plan · 26-11-2014 9:34pm

Keane100 wrote: »

Thank you, must have a look at the circular. Would really hope Im not splitting hairs but maybe I am. My issue is not with doing less than 22 hours or another colleague doing more, I hope it didn't come across that way. I have absolutely no problem with been reassigned to cover the teacher facilitating the trip, I am just wondering I guess as to whether it is correct to use teachers in the position I found myself in to cover teachers who are not on that trip or should cover for uncertified absence on that day come from the S and S rota? There were 2 teachers for this period available on the rota and 3 for a period in the later day involving another colleague so surely it is not the case of the s and s scheme under pressure, the teachers on the rota were not utilised at all but in both cases we were put in ahead of the people on the rota.

Really sorry if I appear to be splitting hairs on this, I would just like to know I suppose should a teacher freed up by a school trip be covering uncertified ahead of people on the rota?

Thank you again for reply and direction to circular

I'm not saying you're awkward or anything, I'm just asking the questions because we haven't the full picture and its easy to get carried away when you don't have the facts!

You are right to raise the question. No school rep is not good. Id be interested to hear the views of others here on it.

Having 2 people on the rota doesn't mean they are available, they could have bust their weekly limit by Wednesday!

Keane100 · 26-11-2014 9:44pm

Spoke to the people on the rota and they had not completed their supervision periods for this week and were shocked that they had not been the ones placed on the rota, as this was the accepted norm in our place up until now that teachers on the S and S scheme cover uncertified leave and teachers freed up cover the necessary classes to facilitate the trip. I covered the class of course, I did not make an issue of it but I did enquire of management as to whether this was a change and was told that yes teachers freed up could be used to cover all absences not just those facilitating the trip, the term " windfall" was used which rightly confused me. I guess I am just looking for clarity, maybe best to just ring the ASTI for advice in the absence of school steward?

theLuggage · 26-11-2014 10:08pm

This happened in our place but when it was pointed out, the cover was altered. I opted out also and my understanding is if I'm freed up by an activity that requires teachers, I can then be called to cover those teachers' classes during my now "free" class. Otherwise no, I cannot be used. Management in my school accept that this is the way to run it. You are only needed to facilitate those teachers going somewhere, not to facilitate someone out sick.

I certainly don't see it as trying to do less than 22 hrs. If you are a teacher in the scheme and your third and sixth years are doing mocks and you are not timetabled to cover exams during all your normal classes with them you can't be used to cover in the scheme just because you are free at those times. Sorry that's long winded, hope it makes sense!

rainbowtrout · 26-11-2014 10:34pm

Keane100 wrote: »

Long time reader here but first time poster, Would really appreciate an answer to my query from people here in the know, whether teacher or management.

I had the option to opt out of S and S scheme and took that option and the subsequent reduction in pay. Yesterday I was timetabled as per my normal timetable for a 3rd year class but they were absent on a school art trip which one teacher was accompanying them for. Now I know I could be reassigned to cover that teachers class but another teacher on the relevant subject line at that time was already assigned.

I was then placed on the supervision rota for that class period to cover a teacher who was on uncertified leave, is this proper procedure?? There were 2 teachers listed on the actual S and s rota for this period, but they were bypassed and I was the named teacher to cover for this class period on the daily rota on the noticeboard. In my eyes this is wrong, I could have been asked and there would be no issue to cover the art teacher's class but to cover for an absent uncertified colleague surely this is not right, surely the actual teachers on rota for that period as part of the S and S scheme were the go to people in this case?? The scheme that I have taken a pay cut to move outside of, I was informed by a member of senior management that no I could be asked to cover this class as I was freed up by my own class been away for the day.

You can be asked to cover classes for a teacher who has taken your class away somewhere, where they would be teaching at the time you would normally have that class.

You should not be asked to do S&S cover.

Now, in this case you should have been assigned to the art class and not the other class. If they were on at the same time, realistically it doesn't make a hell of a difference, but just because you are freed up because your class is away does not mean you can be asked to do S&S cover. Management know this.

Not to mind the fact that you have taken a pay cut so you don't have to do S&S so they should have been assigned to another teacher who is on the S&S rota.

Keane100 · 26-11-2014 11:09pm

Thanks for the replies.

pcarbery · 16-07-2018 12:02pm

I have an additional query.......I recently joined the s&s.......sometimes I check in the morning and I am not timetabled and then an hour later i am.......It has happened that I was timetabled for a class after I checked 5 minutes before the class and was not timetabled........the class went unsupervised and I got some dirty looks from the prinicpal........it seems to be ridiculus to me that I went to the bother of checking if I was on rota before the class started only to find that I was imetabled presumably after the class had started........
I am putting it down to poor management.....does any one know? someone told me recently (but wasnt sure) that the rota has to be up before the end of the first class or else we are not responsible?????

evolving_doors · 16-07-2018 12:22pm

pcarbery wrote: »

I have an additional query.......I recently joined the s&s.......sometimes I check in the morning and I am not timetabled and then an hour later i am.......It has happened that I was timetabled for a class after I checked 5 minutes before the class and was not timetabled........the class went unsupervised and I got some dirty looks from the prinicpal........it seems to be ridiculus to me that I went to the bother of checking if I was on rota before the class started only to find that I was imetabled presumably after the class had started........
I am putting it down to poor management.....does any one know? someone told me recently (but wasnt sure) that the rota has to be up before the end of the first class or else we are not responsible?????

Yup your supposed to get notice in a timely fashion (before end of 1st class I think).
Could be a list of reasons other than poor management though... teacher mightnt have rang in to say they were absent, something came up and teacher had to attend meeting (can happen with year head, guidance teacher etc).

I don't mind the odd late notice as they usually apologise and ask if we wouldn't mind doing it! The odd time I've needed to absent myself at short notice so they've helped me out without question so if they're stuck I'll help to return the favour.
If it's an ongoing thing though maybe put it on the AOB in the next staff meeting that yould appreciate notice as it makes you look bad afterwards (esp when the principal doesnt know when your name was put in, but only finds out you didn't do it afterwards)... also state your concerns about welfare of unsupervised students.

spurious · 16-07-2018 1:09pm

It's difficult without a union rep., but I suggest at your first staff meeting in August, you ask (as a staff) for the procedures followed when assigning cover to be printed up and put on a noticeboard, or in your staff handbook. I know we had one in our place and it was 'open and transparent' and did away with suspicions (founded or not) of any incorrectness/favouritism in assigning classes.

pcarbery · 16-07-2018 5:39pm

thanks for the replies.......it is an ongoing problem for quite a few years now (even though I only joined S&S last year)

Seeking clarification re substitution query

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