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Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

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    #452
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    hardCopy wrote: »
    For some reason their PhotoShop of Steve McQueen in Hi-Vis also includes a Canterbury training top.

    He wore a base layer when they filmed that. The Alps can be chilly enough even in the Summer


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    #453
    Cakewheels
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Cakewheels


    Some people will have seen this already but just putting it out there...

    From the recently published 2012 RSA Cyclist Injury Report

    Three quarters of cyclists injured in 2012 were injured
    in daylight hours of good visibility.

    And yet in the journal.ie coverage on the report the first two things on the list of
    'To avoid accidents, the RSA has advised cyclists to:'

    are

    'Ensure that they cycle with adequate lighting while on the roads.
    Always to wear luminous clothing while cycling.'

    http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-roads-dangerous-cyclists-years-ago-statistics-injuries-1945680-Feb2015/


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    #454
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    A flock of reindeer ?

    I loved their first single.


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    #455
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    loughgill wrote: »
    Some people will have seen this already but just putting it out there...

    From the recently published 2012 RSA Cyclist Injury Report

    Three quarters of cyclists injured in 2012 were injured
    in daylight hours of good visibility.

    And yet in the journal.ie coverage on the report the first two things on the list of
    'To avoid accidents, the RSA has advised cyclists to:'

    are

    'Ensure that they cycle with adequate lighting while on the roads.
    Always to wear luminous clothing while cycling.'

    http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-roads-dangerous-cyclists-years-ago-statistics-injuries-1945680-Feb2015/

    Some good and not so good data in their report.

    May, June, July, August, September, and October are the worst months for cycling injuries. July, August, and September in particular. I presume this is to do with more cyclists on the road.

    Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri are the worst days of the week for cycling injuries. An average of 101 accidents on these days compared to an average of 75 for Sat, Sun, and Mon.

    Unfortunately there is 45% of teh trips cyclists took are for unknown reasons when they had an accident.

    How 50% of the accidents happen is unknown too.


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    #456
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,908 ✭✭✭circadian


    -
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Some good and not so good data in their report.

    May, June, July, August, September, and October are the worst months for cycling injuries. July, August, and September in particular. I presume this is to do with more cyclists on the road.

    Tues, Wed, Thurs, and Fri are the worst days of the week for cycling injuries. An average of 101 accidents on these days compared to an average of 75 for Sat, Sun, and Mon.

    Unfortunately there is 45% of teh trips cyclists took are for unknown reasons when they had an accident.

    How 50% of the accidents happen is unknown too.

    I agree. The odds of commuters cycling in daylight is higher during the summer due to longer sunlight hours and also better weather.

    I'm a soon to be commuter by bike and have bought decent lights and high vis. Mainly because when I'm in a vehicle these are more apparent than when someone is cycling without. I'm sure others on the road have a lack of ability to see cyclists regardless. As humans we are all different and see the world differently.
    +
    CatFromHue wrote: »
    My approach to road cycling is to assume I can't be seen.

    - I do not expect my safety gear to grant me some sort of invincibility but it should at least help some motorists see me. My approach to road cycling is to assume I can't be seen.


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    #457
    Mec-a-nic
    Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Mec-a-nic


    In case anyone is still collecting data on the efficacy of hi-viz, here's another data point:

    Cycling on a main road, a car is waiting to pull across this road, the muppet driver only sees the gap he might steal into rather than the bright yellow cyclist, with day-running 80lux LED light bearing down on him at 36kph...

    http://gfycat.com/SpicyRipeCob (a gif of said event so you don't have to listen to me shouting...)


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    #458
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    thats happened to me with a 400 lux light! Drivers in that situation are looking at one thing - how can I get out asap - rather than a cyclist coming towards them. That's why
    circadian wrote: »
    My approach to road cycling is to assume I can't be seen.


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    #459
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Because trucks are so hard to see, we now have high-vis trucks:

    340412.jpg


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    #460
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I loved their first single.

    Way off to topic, played I Ran in the car the other day and my passenger couldn't believe it's almost 35 years old, they never heard it before, or so they claimed. It's a timeless classic.


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    #461
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    monument wrote: »
    Because trucks are so hard to see, we now have high-vis trucks:
    [/IMG]

    About time. It's a wonder more people haven't been killed before. How else are we to spot the biggest, slowest moving and loudest traffic on the road? :rolleyes:


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    #462
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    gadetra wrote: »
    How else are we to spot the biggest, slowest moving and loudest traffic on the road? :rolleyes:

    Well I generally have lights but no need to get so personal.


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    #463
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Ballinasloe Councillor suggests cutting costs by switching off street lamps:
    Members of Ballinasloe Municipal Council were told that there was a budget of €932,000 available this year for public lighting but all of this would be spent on maintenance and energy costs.

    They were told that there was no money in the pot to provide new street lighting but Senior Roads Engineer Evan Molloy said that the street lighting needed to be upgraded to a low energy system.

    But it was then that Cllr. Michael Finnerty of Fine Gael told the meeting that he was at a conference where it was explained that it was best practice in various parts of Europe to switch off street lighting at 2am.

    He said that he had some difficulty with this as he was conscious of the safety of people out late at night. But he was advocating that every second light in Ballinasloe be switched off in the early hours of each morning.

    http://connachttribune.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Michael-Finnerty.jpg

    Michael-Finnerty.jpg


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    #464
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,055 ✭✭✭buffalo


    One step up from hi-viz - getting people to douse themselves with glowing paint.

    http://www.volvolifepaint.com/

    "Sorry mate, I didn't see you. Why aren't you wearing Volve Life Paint™?"


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    #465
    Alanstrainor
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 23,157 Mod ✭✭✭✭Alanstrainor


    buffalo wrote: »
    One step up from hi-viz - getting people to douse themselves with glowing paint.

    http://www.volvolifepaint.com/

    "Sorry mate, I didn't see you. Why aren't you wearing Volve Life Paint™?"

    Very cool...


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    #466
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    buffalo wrote: »
    One step up from hi-viz - getting people to douse themselves with glowing paint.

    http://www.volvolifepaint.com/

    "Sorry mate, I didn't see you. Why aren't you wearing Volve Life Paint™?"

    Why not spray their cars with it?


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    #467
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    buffalo wrote: »
    One step up from hi-viz - getting people to douse themselves with glowing paint.

    http://www.volvolifepaint.com/

    "Sorry mate, I didn't see you. Why aren't you wearing Volve Life Paint™?"

    I've been hit twice by cars from the rear, thankfully at low speed and uninjured both times.

    Apparently a 6'2" bloke with hi vis bag cover, reflective strips on his jersey, 3M spoke reflectors, a half watt helmet strobe light and a 80 lumen rear flashing light is difficult to see - according to both motorists anyway.


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    #468
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    I've been hit twice by cars from the rear, thankfully at low speed and uninjured both times.

    Apparently a 6'2" bloke with hi vis bag cover, reflective strips on his jersey, 3M spoke reflectors, a half watt helmet strobe light and a 80 lumen rear flashing light is difficult to see - according to both motorists anyway.
    You probably need Life Paint.


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    #469
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    You probably need Life Paint.

    I'd say I could fill the bath with this stuff, apply it to my naked body, dye my clothes and throw the bike into the bath for good measure and you'd still get the 'oh sorry, didn't see you there' :(


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    #470
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I'm very sure that, like many activities, there is an optimal point where extra effort in making yourself conspicuous shows diminishing returns. After this point, the fault most definitely lies mostly with the person who runs into you, since it's pretty clear they weren't looking where they were going, or suffer from some impairment that makes spotting the obvious difficult, or are just a jerk.

    Adequate conspicuity is, well, adequate.


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    #471
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I'm very sure that, like many activities, there is an optimal point where extra effort in making yourself conspicuous shows diminishing returns. After this point, the fault most definitely lies mostly with the person who runs into you, since it's pretty clear they weren't looking where they were going, or suffer from some impairment that makes spotting the obvious difficult, or are just a jerk.

    Adequate conspicuity is, well, adequate.

    Also the "ah sure it's just some fella on a bike" factor.

    I'd say this is what goes through the head of many motorists I've had a close encounter with. They just don't see the potential seriousness of a silly move to get in front of you to turn left, run a red light or cut across you at a roundabout.


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    #472
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I have had some who have looked into my eyes, my very soul and me into theirs, and as they pulled across me, I realised it was not their soul but the abyss that I had looked into and the signs of humanity I perceived were no more than a trick of the light.


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    #473
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Interesting role reversal spotted there this morning. Man in Hi-viz helmet cycles in to a junction and waits his turn to turn right. Dark blue estate car coming from opposite direction. Lights go orange and the cyclist does the classic right-hook manoeuvre into the path of the oncoming car.

    Ordinarily, the car would be the one making the rash turn, and the cyclist would be left jamming on, cursing, and then thanking his lucky stars that the other bozo hadn't squashed him.

    I watched in horror as the cyclist swung right and put himself directly in front of the oncoming car, and then relief as the driver was able to jam on in time to avoid killing the cyclist. The guy on the bike seemed to be about as concerned as any other right-hook swinger, as in not at all bothered. I wasn't able to gauge the drivers reaction, but he did have to shuffle backwards as he had just got stuck mid-junction with traffic coming at him from both directions.

    I'm going to guess that the guy on the bike drives a car in the same way, with little regard for what is in front of him. I'd like to think he learned from his experience, but I have my doubts it registered at all.


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    #474
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Browsing around irishcycle.com I spotted these two:

    http://irishcycle.com/2015/02/16/reality-check-needed-says-road-safety-campaigner-after-senior-garda-wants-to-ticket-people-for-not-wearing-high-vis/
    The Galway-based Community Road Safety Action & Information Network (Cosain) said that there is a “reality check is needed” around the benefits of high-vis.

    http://irishcycle.com/2015/01/16/high-vis-cant-solve-drivers-inattentional-blindness-and-its-promotion-has-failed/
    People who feel like using high-vis should feel free to do so. But the official promotion of high-vis over everything, including lights, is for many reasons — from inconvenience to dangerisation — the opposite of cycling promotion. Thus it is likely to stand in the way of one of the most proven safety effects: safety in numbers.

    Much of it covered here already. The second link has some new stuff to me, especially how pedestrian-unfriendly the RSA headquarters is.
    The Road Safety Authority (RSA) should also be familiar with a lack of a footpath — their HQ in Ballina is in a business park where one pedestrian gates is locked every time we’ve passed by and the other is welded shut. There’s also a missing section of footpath between the RSA’s business park and the town centre.

    I suspect high-visibility clothing of some kind is the answer.


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    #475
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Browsing around
    I suspect high-visibility clothing of some kind is the answer.

    They should lead by example and respray their HQ hi-vis. On a separate note, I was watching a news report the other even about how they tracked the recent hi-profile murderer down. Apparently he worked close to the ESB in merrion Square which has a mobile phone mast on the roof.

    The reporter was on the roof, microphone in hand, running through how the Gardai tracked him back to this mast - kitted out in (you guessed it) a hard hat and hi-vis. I would love to see the risk assessment that recommended that - apparently it will protect you from microwaves emitted by mobile phone masts, as well as a fall from the 4th floor of a building. Great stuff that hi-vis.

    The whole thing is becoming ridiculous, I've had driver say 'where's your hi-vis' when I've challenged an idiotic maneuver that nearly clipped. Never mind the €100 plus worth of lights back and front.:(

    It's an interesting insight into how we manage risk - in our case, putting the onus on the most vulnerable road user to make themselves visible. Then it becomes a perfect defense for a motorist if you come to blows - "I didn't see him as he wasn't visible enough."


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    #476
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,055 ✭✭✭buffalo


    monument wrote: »
    Why not spray their cars with it?

    I emailed them to ask, but have yet to receive a response.


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    #477
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    It's an interesting insight into how we manage risk - in our case, putting the onus on the most vulnerable road user to make themselves visible. Then it becomes a perfect defense for a motorist if you come to blows - "I didn't see him as he wasn't visible enough."

    I'm curious to see what will be the next step in removing responsibility from motorists. After all cyclists of all ages and levels of experience are required to have a full body hi-vis tattoo and a fog horn attached to them, I suppose the next step will be to blame humans outside of cars for being too damn squishy.


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    #478
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    check_six wrote: »
    I'm curious to see what will be the next step in removing responsibility from motorists.

    A helmet, Hövding-style neck airbag, spine protector, elbow and knee pads, viscera guard ... robotic exoskeleton?

    As bikesnobnyc puts it, just lease a Hyundai.

    (He's on fire lately. His take on Life Paint: "Hopefully this backfires on Volvo and the streets of London get covered with glow-in-the-dark penises.")


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    #479
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    check_six wrote: »
    I'm curious to see what will be the next step in removing responsibility from motorists. .

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRb8efJ_FXHGVLUs8lFB1BNpeC0f_G5TexoCaITupYs7FL1R34v

    Early stages of development. There'll be a hi-vis version in the next while.


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    #480
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,133 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    robotic exoskeleton?
    Forget the dopers, it's the bionic riders that are ruining the sport.


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    #481
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,055 ✭✭✭buffalo


    monument wrote: »
    Why not spray their cars with it?
    They replied.
    volvo wrote:
    at this time no decisions have been made about the future use of LifePaint.


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