Car tax exemption - foreign full time student

loopy80 · 17-06-2015 12:48pm #1

Hello,

I am going to study a bachelor course in Ireland. At present, I am (ordinarily) resident in Germany. I am coming with my spouse and son (1 year old) and my car.

The course takes 3 years and within these 3 years I need a residence (house, flat) in Ireland, of course. I certainly do not want to sleep under a bridge!

My car has German insurance and is here registered. If I take it with me to Ireland, there are exemptions for foreign cars for foreign students.

Where can I request such an exemption? Does the exemption apply to me?

Here a link, where I got this information from.
revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

loopy80 · 19-06-2015 10:22pm

anybody?

CiniO · 19-06-2015 10:33pm

Are you going to be only studying or are you going to be working in Ireland (or running a business) as well?

K.Flyer · 19-06-2015 10:37pm

Hiya Loopy,

Hope this helps answer your questions..

Take a careful read through the attached link. It outlines the temporary importation of a car (or other vehicles) into Ireland.

Temporary Exemption For Foreign Registered Vehicles

Take a look at section 4..

4. What If I am a foreign student?

If you reside temporarily in the State primarily for the purpose of pursuing a course of studies you may bring a foreign registered Category A vehicle (e.g. a saloon, estate, hatchback, convertible, coupé, MPV, Jeep, etc. a minibus (with less than 13 permanently fitted seats including the driver's seat)) or a motor-cycle into the State provided it is registered in the country of your normal residence. The same conditions mentioned in paragraph 2 above apply and the 12 month time limit will be extended until you have completed your course of studies.

loopy80 · 19-06-2015 11:39pm

CiniO wrote: »

Are you going to be only studying or are you going to be working in Ireland (or running a business) as well?

Only studying.

loopy80 · 19-06-2015 11:42pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Take a look at section 4..

Yeah, I found that one already!

Got also the regulation (S.I.) from 1993 where it is printed and additionally sent email to the
revenue office to ask about it. No answer, yet.

Do you think I have to request the temp exempt? Fill out a form an send it to a office? Or do I drive my foreign car, with its foreign reg plates and insurance and when police stops me I just wink an say "Cool down, bro! I am a student!"

CiniO · 19-06-2015 11:47pm

loopy80 wrote: »

Yeah, I found that one already!

Got also the regulation (S.I.) from 1993 where it is printed and additionally sent email to the
revenue office to ask about it. No answer, yet.

Do you think I have to request the temp exempt? Fill out a form an send it to a office? Or do I drive my foreign car, with its foreign reg plates and insurance and when police stops me I just wink an say "Cool down, bro! I am a student!"

I'd say the latter one.
Just keep a copies of relevant documents proving your are only in Ireland for purpose of Studying in your car to be able to show them to Garda or Customs if you get pulled over.

TireeTerror · 20-06-2015 12:05am

You will have no problem at all. 4 years Ive been driving a UK car and been stopped at several random checkpoints. As soon as they hear my accent and see my UK Licence they just wave me on.

jahalpin · 20-06-2015 12:10am

loopy80 wrote: »

Hello,

I am going to study a bachelor course in Ireland. At present, I am (ordinarily) resident in Germany. I am coming with my spouse and son (1 year old) and my car.

The course takes 3 years and within these 3 years I need a residence (house, flat) in Ireland, of course. I certainly do not want to sleep under a bridge! My car has German insurance and is here registered. If I take it with me to Ireland, there are exemptions for foreign cars for foreign students.

Where can I request such an exemption? Does the exemption apply to me?

Here a link, where I got this information from.
revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Did you check whether your German insurance will cover you living in Ireland on a full-time basis, most insurance policies only allow the car to be outside of the home country for a maximum of 90 days

CiniO · 20-06-2015 12:40am

jahalpin wrote: »

Did you check whether your German insurance will cover you living in Ireland on a full-time basis, most insurance policies only allow the car to be outside of the home country for a maximum of 90 days

No, they don't.
All car insurance policies issued in the EU, are valid without any time limits all over EU for minimum legally required third party cover.
No insurer in the EU can issue a policy which would limit a time the car can be driven abroad for purposes of third party cover.

Additional cover, like fire, theft, own car damage, windscreen cover, etc - can be limited and it's up to insurer - but not third party cover.

And while most Irish insurers indeed impose a time limit for full cover abroad (usually between 30 and 90 days), most insurers on the Continent don't impose such limits.

loopy80 · 20-06-2015 1:11am

CiniO wrote: »

All car insurance policies issued in the EU, are valid without any time limits all over EU for minimum legally required third party cover.

I can confirm that one in reference to my insurer's regulations. Third party coverage legally required in the foreign country will be covered.

The question is whether or not I have to request the drive allowance at some office.

K.Flyer · 20-06-2015 1:56am

loopy80 wrote: »

The question is whether or not I have to request the drive allowance at some office.

Section 11 of the link that I posted states...

General

11. Are there formalities on arrival?

No. Once the conditions outlined in paragraph 2 above are met there are no formalities when you arrive in the State.

12. What must I do if challenged by a Revenue officer or a Garda?

You are required to stop your vehicle and allow it to be examined if requested by an Officer of the Revenue Commissioners or An Garda Síochána. You must co-operate in answering questions for the purpose of verifying your status and produce on request all documents relating to the bringing into the State, ownership and registration of the vehicle.

Just drive in and make sure that you have all your paperwork in order and have it with you whenever you are driving the car.
Probably best to get your Germany documents translated to avoid unnecessary delays if you are stopped by the Irish Police (An Garda)

loopy80 · 20-06-2015 10:11pm

TireeTerror wrote: »

You will have no problem at all. 4 years Ive been driving a UK car and been stopped at several random checkpoints. As soon as they hear my accent and see my UK Licence they just wave me on.

Are you in Ireland to persuade a study course, as well?

loopy80 · 20-06-2015 10:18pm

The following idea

CiniO wrote: »

No insurer in the EU can issue a policy which ...

contradicts this one

CiniO wrote: »

And while most Irish insurers indeed impose a time limit for full cover abroad ...

For the sake of my understanding: Ireland does not belong to the "continent"? It (it's inhabitants) sees itself as an island?

Greenmachine · 20-06-2015 10:23pm

Wow never heard of exemption for road tax for students from another country. A little bizarre that If I was a student I would require tax, because I am in fact Irish.

CiniO · 20-06-2015 10:35pm

loopy80 wrote: »

The following idea

contradicts this one

For the sake of my understanding: Ireland does not belong to the "continent"? It (it's inhabitants) sees itself as an island?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough.
All third party policies issued in the EU (which obviously include Ireland) are valid for the whole period of the policy in the whole EU.
However most insurance policies issued in Ireland are higher option than third party only.
It's either "third party, fire and theft" or "comprehensive" which usually includes own car damage, windscreen cover, breakdown cover and other addons.

What I meant was that with most Irish insurer any additional cover to third party, won't be valid abroad if you go for more than 30-90 days (depending on insurer).
Third party cover stays intact though.

CiniO · 20-06-2015 10:44pm

Greenmachine wrote: »

Wow never heard of exemption for road tax for students from another country. A little bizarre that If I was a student I would require tax, because I am in fact Irish.

OP didn't mean road tax exemption, but registration tax (VRT).
As a foreign student, he can take his foreign car to Ireland and use it here during the course of his studies.
You as Irish person resident in Ireland are entitled to the same - you can take your Irish car with you if you decide to study abroad in the EU, and keep using your car there for the whole period of your studies.

Sheldons Brain · 21-06-2015 2:21am

Greenmachine wrote: »

Wow never heard of exemption for road tax for students from another country. A little bizarre that If I was a student I would require tax, because I am in fact Irish.

I think you did not read the thread. THe issue is whether the OP can drive his car under his German registration while studying and the answer is yes, he can. He is simply not resident in Ireland.

And as for insurance you can meet minimum legal requirements, but would not have coverage for theft etc. The main complication with insurance is that the insurance company normally ask where the vehicle is normally kept.

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 7:57am

Greenmachine wrote: »

A little bizarre that If I was a student I would require tax, because I am in fact Irish.

As Irish in Germany you would get the same temporary exemption. It seems to be caused on the basis of an EU directive from 1983.

Council Directive 83/182/EEC of 28 March 1983 on tax exemptions within the Community for certain means of transport temporarily imported into one Member State from another

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 8:00am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

... is that the insurance company normally ask where the vehicle is normally kept.

And normally, when I am not temporarirly out of state, I would keep it in my garage!

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 8:13am

CiniO wrote: »

OP didn't mean road tax exemption, but registration tax (VRT).

I would be not eligible for VRT exemption. One criteria for release of VRT would be NOT to come to Ireland solely for the purpose of education. In other words I would have to work or just establish myself in Ireland to get a full relief of VRT.

But this does not apply to me because I will not have to register my car in Ireland for the time I will be being there only to persuade a study course.

Greenmachine · 21-06-2015 10:12am

Thanks to all the people who got back to me here. I won't answer each one individually, but it appears I did indeed misunderstand the OP. Nonetheless the VRT exemption was something that I was unaware of.

Del2005 · 21-06-2015 10:54am

Just make sure that no Irish residents drive the car, it can be lifted by customs if an Irish resident drives it.

What will be the status of your wife since she isn't studying, does she become resident in Ireland and then not able to drive your car?

BTW I wouldn't be relying on getting replies to email from our civil servants, ring the relevant department for information.

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 11:04am

Del2005 wrote: »

What will be the status of your wife since she isn't studying, does she become resident in Ireland and then not able to drive your car?

A really good question. We are not married but have a child together. She´s got a degree in psychology and surely will start working (max. part time) within that timeframe.

Del2005 wrote: »

... ring the relevant department for information.

Which one would that be, please?

jimd2 · 21-06-2015 11:13am

loopy80 wrote: »

Hello,

I am going to study a bachelor course in Ireland. At present, I am (ordinarily) resident in Germany. I am coming with my spouse and son (1 year old) and my car.

The course takes 3 years and within these 3 years I need a residence (house, flat) in Ireland, of course. I certainly do not want to sleep under a bridge! My car has German insurance and is here registered. If I take it with me to Ireland, there are exemptions for foreign cars for foreign students.

Where can I request such an exemption? Does the exemption apply to me?

Here a link, where I got this information from.
revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Are you Irish or German? I don't claim to be an expert but if you are stopped you will probably be waved on if your accent / passport makes it obvious that you are foreign whereas if you are Irish and had emigrated they might probe you a bit more.

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 11:17am

jimd2 wrote: »

Are you Irish or German?

Hatched and resident since then in Germany!

Del2005 · 21-06-2015 11:46am

loopy80 wrote: »

A really good question. We are not married but have a child together. She´s got a degree in psychology and surely will start working (max. part time) within that timeframe.

Which one would that be, please?

From the Revenue site it says to contact your local revenue office so call the one nearest the university you will be attending. I can't see how your partner will be able to get an exemption since you aren't married she will just be considered as moving residence, especially if she starts working.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/reliefs-exemptions.html

Have you looked into accommodation yet? There is a rental crisis in most of our cities which could be a bigger problems than your car.

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 11:48am

Del2005 wrote: »

I can't see how your partner will be able to get an exemption since you aren't married she will just be considered as moving residence, especially if she starts working.

What if we got married?

Del2005 wrote: »

Have you looked into accommodation yet? There is a rental crisis in most of our cities which could be a bigger problems than your car.

Ok? Never heard of this crisis. Daft.ie and others have a varety of offers.

K.Flyer · 21-06-2015 11:56am

loopy80 wrote: »

Ok? Never heard of this crisis. Daft.ie and others have a varety of offers.

Make sure to check the size of the apartments that you are considering, as they tend to be small and expensive compared to what you might get in Germany. Also make sure parking space is included, as street parking can be restrictive and expensive with cars being clamped on a regular basis.

Del2005 · 21-06-2015 12:02pm

loopy80 wrote: »

What if we got married?

Ok? Never heard of this crisis. Daft.ie and others have a varety of offers.

No idea what happens if you get married, only revenue can tell.

Plenty on daft but more people looking than available, have a read of the accommodation forum to see how bad it is

http://touch.boards.ie/forum/38

loopy80 · 21-06-2015 9:29pm

Since that we seek a house rental crisis maybe spares us.

Marcusm · 21-06-2015 11:35pm

CiniO wrote: »

No, they don't.
All car insurance policies issued in the EU, are valid without any time limits all over EU for minimum legally required third party cover.
No insurer in the EU can issue a policy which would limit a time the car can be driven abroad for purposes of third party cover.

Additional cover, like fire, theft, own car damage, windscreen cover, etc - can be limited and it's up to insurer - but not third party cover.

And while most Irish insurers indeed impose a time limit for full cover abroad (usually between 30 and 90 days), most insurers on the Continent don't impose such limits.

That is true on its face; however, I would imagine that the insurer will need to be informed that the policyholder has changed the place at which the car is usually kept and where the policyholder resides pro team (at least 3 years). They might, understandably, decline to provide coverage at the termination of the current policy period.

CiniO · 21-06-2015 11:44pm

Marcusm wrote: »

That is true on its face; however, I would imagine that the insurer will need to be informed that the policyholder has changed the place at which the car is usually kept and where the policyholder resides pro team (at least 3 years). They might, understandably, decline to provide coverage at the termination of the current policy period.

To be honest I'd be surprised if that was the case with OP.

Firstly AFAIK students in college abroad are considered still resident in their home country (within EU). So OP's residence is not changing.

Secondly generally car insurance system on the Continent is set much more favourable towards customers, and insurers are very limited to what they can and can not expect, ask or request from customers.

F.e. in Poland third party insurance must be purchased by owner of the vehicle. All data that insurer needs is owner registered address (which won't change if he is gone abroad for purpose of studies), car details, owner's date of birth and applicable NCB discount (claims history) There's nothing more to it really, and insurer is not allowed to refuse to provide cover. They are not allowed to ask where vehicle is kept or where is't being driven.
I assume it works similar in Germany.

Marcusm · 22-06-2015 12:17am

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest I'd be surprised if that was the case with OP.

Firstly AFAIK students in college abroad are considered still resident in their home country (within EU). So OP's residence is not changing.

Secondly generally car insurance system on the Continent is set much more favourable towards customers, and insurers are very limited to what they can and can not expect, ask or request from customers.

F.e. in Poland third party insurance must be purchased by owner of the vehicle. All data that insurer needs is owner registered address (which won't change if he is gone abroad for purpose of studies), car details, owner's date of birth and applicable NCB discount (claims history) There's nothing more to it really, and insurer is not allowed to refuse to provide cover. They are not allowed to ask where vehicle is kept or where is't being driven.
I assume it works similar in Germany.

As they say, to assume is to make an ass of (yo)u and me. IIRC correctly, Polish insurance is effectively community rated rather than by reference to the individual circumstances. "Residence" in actuality will generally be more relevant to insurance (which requires full disclosure and utmost good faith) rather than the type of denial of residence which applies for effective import taxes under the freedom of movement regs. A German insurance company would not likely have the infrastructure to deal with claims in Ireland - in the old days, claims against foreign registered drivers were dealt with theough the Irish Visiting Motorists Bureau section of MIBI. Where the driver is here for an extended period, the likelihood of a claim is much greater and insurers would expect to control their own claims. Ultimately it's an issue of practicality. The OP would be well advised to research this before moving. I'm Irish living in London with homes in both countries. I have spent considerable time trying to get a regularised position to have cars on both countries. Ultimately I could not get comfortable on the inviolability of the insurance and that was a concern to me - despite a claims free record, I did not want the personal exposure if anything untoward happened.

CiniO · 22-06-2015 12:31am

Marcusm wrote: »

As they say, to assume is to make an ass of (yo)u and me. IIRC correctly, Polish insurance is effectively community rated rather than by reference to the individual circumstances.

Well it is individually rated, but to much less extent than in Ireland. (I'm talking about third party insurance)
Premiums are based on:
1. Vehicle owner registered address - usually bigger cities are more expensive than country side.
2. Engine size of vehicle - the bigger the more expensive (which IMO is pure nonsense)
3. Vehicle owner age (usually about 30% increase for people under 25) but no other relation - so. f.e. person at age of 26 would be at the same price as someone at the ago of 47)
4. Claims history - the more claims free driving years, the cheaper (that makes perfect sense to me).

Nothing else is really considered, which IMO is pretty good idea, as otherwise you get nonsenses like insurers charging more for certain make and model of car as it's usually boy racers favourite. That's generalisation which shouldn't take place in insurance industry.

"Residence" in actuality will generally be more relevant to insurance (which requires full disclosure and utmost good faith) rather than the type of denial of residence which applies for effective import taxes under the freedom of movement regs. A German insurance company would not likely have the infrastructure to deal with claims in Ireland

I'm pretty sure they do. That's what MIBI is for. Each insurer in EU has a contract with other insurers in every EU country to be able to deal with claims for them. That should be no problem at all.

- in the old days, claims against foreign registered drivers were dealt with theough the Irish Visiting Motorists Bureau section of MIBI. Where the driver is here for an extended period, the likelihood of a claim is much greater and insurers would expect to control their own claims. Ultimately it's an issue of practicality. The OP would be well advised to research this before moving.

Looking above on what he said, he already did.
As I say - you are just used to insurance system that work in Ireland or UK.
I'm just saying that on the Continent it's bit different, and generally problems which we encounter here in Ireland or UK, don't exist on the Continent.
I know exactly that I could buy car in Poland, register it at my parent's address in Poland, insure there, and take it to Ireland and drive for as long as I wish (even though I'm resident in Ireland). Insurance would be still fully valid.

I'm Irish living in London with homes in both countries. I have spent considerable time trying to get a regularised position to have cars on both countries. Ultimately I could not get comfortable on the inviolability of the insurance and that was a concern to me - despite a claims free record, I did not want the personal exposure if anything untoward happened.

That's exactly what I mentioned before - insurance systems in Ireland and UK make it much more difficult for ordinary customers compared to systems on the Continent.

Marcusm · 22-06-2015 12:58am

CiniO wrote: »

Well it is individually rated, but to much less extent than in Ireland. (I'm talking about third party insurance)
Premiums are based on:
1. Vehicle owner registered address - usually bigger cities are more expensive than country side.
2. Engine size of vehicle - the bigger the more expensive (which IMO is pure nonsense)
3. Vehicle owner age (usually about 30% increase for people under 25) but no other relation - so. f.e. person at age of 26 would be at the same price as someone at the ago of 47)
4. Claims history - the more claims free driving years, the cheaper (that makes perfect sense to me).

Nothing else is really considered, which IMO is pretty good idea, as otherwise you get nonsenses like insurers charging more for certain make and model of car as it's usually boy racers favourite. That's generalisation which shouldn't take place in insurance industry.

I'm pretty sure they do. That's what MIBI is for. Each insurer in EU has a contract with other insurers in every EU country to be able to deal with claims for them. That should be no problem at all.

Looking above on what he said, he already did.
As I say - you are just used to insurance system that work in Ireland or UK.
I'm just saying that on the Continent it's bit different, and generally problems which we encounter here in Ireland or UK, don't exist on the Continent.
I know exactly that I could buy car in Poland, register it at my parent's address in Poland, insure there, and take it to Ireland and drive for as long as I wish (even though I'm resident in Ireland). Insurance would be still fully valid.

That's exactly what I mentioned before - insurance systems in Ireland and UK make it much more difficult for ordinary customers compared to systems on the Continent.

The part that particularly stands out to me is the point about registering at your parents' address. That sounds as if the insurer would be unaware that the policyholder doesn't live in Poland and that the car is never used there. Under Insurance law in many countries, such a significant false disclosure would result in a policy which was at least voidable at the option of the insurer if not void ab initio.

CiniO · 22-06-2015 1:20am

Marcusm wrote: »

The part that particularly stands out to me is the point about registering at your parents' address. That sounds as if the insurer would be unaware that the policyholder doesn't live in Poland and that the car is never used there. Under Insurance law in many countries, such a significant false disclosure would result in a policy which was at least voidable at the option of the insurer if not void ab initio.

Well I know it sounds strange to you, but that's how it works.
In Poland there's still an old system in place (originating from communism times) where every person had to have residency address registered with town/city council office. This is the address that is printed on your national ID.
Times have changed, but the law was not amended. However it stopped being enforced, so no one can get fined anymore for not updating the address - but most people do anyway as this address is used by city/county offices, banks, employers, etc so it's good to have it up to date.

All that insurer is asking you, when you are buying policy is this address (they are not even asking for it - they just ask for national ID and read it from there). They are not interested where you really live. All they are interested is where is your registered address.
So by not living at this address, you are not really making any false disclosure to insurer. They never asked nor were interested where you live. They ask for registered address and that's what matters to them, and that's what they base their premium on.
I assume they have to go with assumption that probably about 80% people live at their registered address so that is good enough for them.

Also insurers in Poland providing third party cover are not allowed to void a policy just like that on fact of false disclosure.
Once they issued policy, they will always have to pay to third party for damage caused, but indeed there are cases (prescribed by law) when they can demand this amount back from insured person to pay them back.
This cases are:
-driver had no licence.
-driver was under influence of alcohol or drugs.
-driver left the scene of accident (hit and run)
-car had no valid roadworthiness test

In any other case insurer will have to pay out normally.

Even if information provided by policy holder was not correct, they can't refuse. Imagine someone just forge NCB statment from different insurer, and they still can't refuse to pay out. All they can do it to force policy holder to pay the different in the premium in such case.

Just bit different way of doing things than here.

I'm not saying it's the same in Germany, but I'm saying insurers providing obligatory third party insurance on the Continent, have much less rights and much more obligations than ones in Ireland and UK.
And I really can't see any problem with German insurer providing full cover for OP even though he is in Ireland for 3 years.

loopy80 · 22-06-2015 8:12am

CiniO wrote: »

I know exactly that I could buy car in Poland, register it at my parent's address in Poland, insure there, and take it to Ireland and drive for as long as I wish (even though I'm resident in Ireland).

Wouldn't that be a commitment of a tax offence since Irish law indicates that you have to register your car in Ireland (and conculsively pay VRT and motor tax) when you have a residence there for occupational purposes.

An there would be my next question: Can I register a car in Ireland with a German third party cover insurance? What would the civil servant say if I come with such insurance to the registration?

Del2005 · 22-06-2015 12:31pm

CiniO wrote: »

Also insurers in Poland providing third party cover are not allowed to void a policy just like that on fact of false disclosure.
Once they issued policy, they will always have to pay to third party for damage caused, but indeed there are cases (prescribed by law) when they can demand this amount back from insured person to pay them back.
This cases are:
-driver had no licence.
-driver was under influence of alcohol or drugs.
-driver left the scene of accident (hit and run)
-car had no valid roadworthiness test

In any other case insurer will have to pay out normally.

Even if information provided by policy holder was not correct, they can't refuse. Imagine someone just forge NCB statment from different insurer, and they still can't refuse to pay out. All they can do it to force policy holder to pay the different in the premium in such case.

Just bit different way of doing things than here.

Most of this is true for Irish policies it's just that our insurers find it easier to gouge everyone if someone doesn't full fill the requirements of their policy than using the law to recoup any 3rd party payouts from the offending motorist.

loopy80 wrote: »

Wouldn't that be a commitment of a tax offence since Irish law indicates that you have to register your car in Ireland (and conculsively pay VRT and motor tax) when you have a residence there for occupational purposes.

Legally it's an offence but since our Gardaí famously thought all Poles are called "Driving Licence" a foreign national in Ireland getting done for VRT evasion is very rare/unlucky

loopy80 wrote: »

An there would be my next question: Can I register a car in Ireland with a German third party cover insurance? What would the civil servant say if I come with such insurance to the registration?

IIRC Irish registered cars have to be insured by a company which reports to our financial regulator. If it was that easy we'd all be driving with cheaper insurance from other EU countries, but unfortunately our litigious nature and overly generous courts mean that it'll never happen since most already have Irish operations

loopy80 · 22-06-2015 4:52pm

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC Irish registered cars have to be insured by a company which reports to our financial regulator.

That´s it! I have searched for a reason all the time. And here is the answer. A German insurance would not report to the Irish financial regulator! Thanks!

Car tax exemption - foreign full time student

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