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Police accused over Omagh Bomb

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  • 11-05-2012 10:05am
    #1
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0510/breaking47.html

    I remember at the time local people who had been near the courthouse just before the explosion, had wondered at the lack of police around the courthouse area ... considering the courthouse was apparently the target. Plus there is the weirdness that was directing people to Market Street rather than the bus depot, which traditionally where people were directed during a bomb scare (though that may have just be coincidental that people where instead directed to a narrow street with really high buildings and where the bomb just happened to be located).

    Relatives of the victims, The Omagh Support and Self Help Group, commissioned the report from a group of London-based consultants and according to one of the relatives " “new and damaging evidence” would be coming out that would strengthen demands for an all-island public inquiry with an international dimension."

    I remember the Police Ombudsman came out with concerns based on RUC involvement as well.

    I want to hear what this evidence is, but it wont be presented until June. Would it surprise me to hear the RUC helped the realIRA just to ensure they kept their lucratively highly paid ('danger money') jobs? Not in the slightest.


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    #2
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    maccored wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0510/breaking47.html

    I remember at the time local people who had been near the courthouse just before the explosion, had wondered at the lack of police around the courthouse area ... considering the courthouse was apparently the target. Plus there is the weirdness that was directing people to Market Street rather than the bus depot, which traditionally where people were directed during a bomb scare (though that may have just be coincidental that people where instead directed to a narrow street with really high buildings and where the bomb just happened to be located).

    Relatives of the victims, The Omagh Support and Self Help Group, commissioned the report from a group of London-based consultants and according to one of the relatives " “new and damaging evidence” would be coming out that would strengthen demands for an all-island public inquiry with an international dimension."

    I remember the Police Ombudsman came out with concerns based on RUC involvement as well.

    I want to hear what this evidence is, but it wont be presented until June. Would it surprise me to hear the RUC helped the realIRA just to ensure they kept their lucratively highly paid ('danger money') jobs? Not in the slightest.

    The Real IRA carried out this atrocity completely unaided by The RUC - to suggest otherwise is about as close to complete insanity as it gets.


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    #3
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    whitelines wrote: »
    The Real IRA carried out this atrocity completely unaided by The RUC - to suggest otherwise is about as close to complete insanity as it gets.

    ... so basically the relatives are all mad then? I'll wait til I read their report before coming out with something like that.


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    #4
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    whitelines wrote: »
    The Real IRA carried out this atrocity completely unaided by The RUC - to suggest otherwise is about as close to complete insanity as it gets.

    This.

    What disgraceful revisionism. The murderers guiltly of blowing up innocent people were not wearing uniforms.

    Sickening weasel words trying to put the blame on anyone other than those swine who blew up those people is utterly shameful.


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    #5
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    maccored wrote: »
    ... so basically the relatives are all mad then? I'll wait til I read their report before coming out with something like that.

    That is not what the relatives are alleging, do not twist their words to suit your ridiculous agenda. The allegation is that an operation was active, an attempt was made to try and catch those guilty in the act. It failed spectacularly and tragically. To suggest this was done to preserve the status of the RUC/PSNI is a horrid smear. Shameful.

    The relatives deserve truth, they deserve to know why the police operation failed, but they do not deserve to have their quest for justice hijacked by some fantasists with a lunatic agenda.


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    #6
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    We dont know what the relatives are actually saying, other than they believe the RUC could have done more to stop the bombing. We wont know the full report until they release it.

    Who are these "fantasists with a lunatic agenda" you talking about anyway?


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    #7
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    I am pie wrote: »
    This.

    What disgraceful revisionism. The murderers guiltly of blowing up innocent people were not wearing uniforms.

    Sickening weasel words trying to put the blame on anyone other than those swine who blew up those people is utterly shameful.

    Please tell me, in english, what you're actually saying here as you've lost me.


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    #8
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    So this whole thread is based on your speculation and supposition?


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    #9
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    maccored wrote: »
    Please tell me, in english, what you're actually saying here as you've lost me.

    I'll just let you read slowly over it once again, maybe it will sink in. I'm not really interested in addressing your comprehension issues.


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    #10
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    mike65 wrote: »
    So this whole thread is based on your speculation and supposition?

    no. this whole thread is based on suspicions people have already had, and which the relatives now have a report about. It will be interesting to see what is in the report considering the relatives reckon it will reflect badly on the police force.

    I was looking for discussion, but internet warrior 'lookit me im smarts ma' type responses seem to be the name of the game presently.


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    #11
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    I am pie wrote: »
    I'll just let you read slowly over it once again, maybe it will sink in. I'm not really interested in addressing your comprehension issues.

    As I thought. Post it and run eh?


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    #12
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    whitelines wrote: »
    The Real IRA carried out this atrocity completely unaided by The RUC - to suggest otherwise is about as close to complete insanity as it gets.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1695813.stm

    You obviously class the police ombudsman as insane as well then I assume.


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    #13
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    I say it will be about another ten minutes before you are accused of being a RIRA supporter trying to absolve them of blame.

    Thats what generally happens when you deviate from the "accepted" media version of the "truth" for whatever reason.

    I've had suspicions about it in particular the fact that they were not sent to the depot. People forget that bomb scares were not exactly uncommon.

    However rather than for the "danger money" I'd suggest it may have been allowed happen to accelerate the peace process and kill off physical force republicanism. Which it did to a large degree.

    I'm very eager to read the new evidence.


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    #14
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    I say it will be about another ten minutes before you are accused of being a RIRA supporter trying to absolve them of blame.

    Thats what generally happens when you deviate from the "accepted" media version of the "truth" for whatever reason.

    I've had suspicions about it in particular the fact that they were not sent to the depot. People forget that bomb scares were not exactly uncommon.

    However rather than for the "danger money" I'd suggest it may have been allowed happen to accelerate the peace process and kill off physical force republicanism. Which it did to a large degree.

    I'm very eager to read the new evidence.

    Im well used to the misconstrued labeling on this forum. Im assuming the new evidence continues on where nuala oloan left off. she got so far but then the RUC tied it all up in red tape and went to court to make sure no more was said about it.

    In my time of growing up in Omagh, the bus depot was always the place people were sent during a bombscare. Open ground with no large buildings surrounding it. Bombscares were a regular occurance.


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    #15
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Really?

    You seem to be taking that news report and the possible details contained in the yet to be published document and running off in CT land with it. The families involved aren't saying anything like what you are coming up with.

    From report the news around this, it looks like the new document contains evidence that the police were running an operation relating to those who planted the bomb and it spectacularly and tragically failed. If I was a family member affected, I'd be pretty pissed at this too, and want answers as to why it was allowed to happen.


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    #16
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Really?

    You seem to be taking that news report and the possible details contained in the yet to be published document and running off in CT land with it. The families involved aren't saying anything like what you are coming up with.

    From report the news around this, it looks like the new document contains evidence that the police were running an operation relating to those who planted the bomb and it spectacularly and tragically failed. If I was a family member affected, I'd be pretty pissed at this too, and want answers as to why it was allowed to happen.

    Perhaps the failure, being so spectacular was deliberate... explains why the RUC wouldn't cooperate with the ombudsman.

    We will see anyway.


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    #17
    whitelines
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    maccored wrote: »
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1695813.stm

    You obviously class the police ombudsman as insane as well then I assume.

    I don't have much time for that woman, but even if I did, she certainly wasn't making your allegation.


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    #18
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    Perhaps the failure, being so spectacular was deliberate... explains why the RUC wouldn't cooperate with the ombudsman.

    We will see anyway.

    While I'd think it unlikely, it could be possible. Also very possible, and I'd suggest a lot more probable, is that it was a botched job, they dropped the ball and of course wouldn't want anyone getting too close to that truth, so did their best to prevent the ombudsman investigating properly.


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    #19
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Really?

    You seem to be taking that news report and the possible details contained in the yet to be published document and running off in CT land with it. The families involved aren't saying anything like what you are coming up with.

    Yes 'really'.

    I do apologise for having an opinion of my own mind you. Running off to 'CT' land with it? Thats just absolute tosh.

    Dr Galen wrote: »
    Really?

    From report the news around this, it looks like the new document contains evidence that the police were running an operation relating to those who planted the bomb and it spectacularly and tragically failed.

    and who is arguing with you there tell me? Its HOW it "spectacularly and tragically failed" is the issue, and if the RUC could have prevented that. Blindly ignore the suspicions people - including nuala oloan have had - if it makes life any easier for you but I - as I stated - would not be surprised to find that all the dots join up whenever that report is published.


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    #20
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    While I'd think it unlikely, it could be possible. Also very possible, and I'd suggest a lot more probable, is that it was a botched job, they dropped the ball and of course wouldn't want anyone getting too close to that truth, so did their best to prevent the ombudsman investigating properly.

    thats just as bad as being actively involved in it.


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    #21
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    whitelines wrote: »
    I don't have much time for that woman, but even if I did, she certainly wasn't making your allegation.

    she wasnt suggesting there may have been RUC collusion? I must read this bit again then:
    It found that RUC Special Branch had been warned about a planned attack on 15 August - the day of the atrocity - but that information was not passed to police officers on the ground

    Did you even read the piece?


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    maccored wrote: »
    thats just as bad as being actively involved in it.
    It's not.
    maccored wrote: »
    she wasnt suggesting there may have been RUC collusion? I must read this bit again then
    But hold on, if the information wasn't passed on then how did they know to send them the wrong way?


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    #23
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Yes, it is.
    But hold on, if the information wasn't passed on then how did they know to send them the wrong way?

    ? What are you talking about?

    I stated a few facts earlier .. one of which was the bus depot was the place people would be sent to and market street a place people were sent to and where the bomb went off. Those are facts.

    Suspicious about the way it went down? yes I am - but where did I state the RUC purposely sent people there?


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    #24
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    A badly planned or implemented police operation is not the same as doing nothing or being actively involved.


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    #25
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Dr Galen wrote: »
    A badly planned or implemented police operation is not the same as doing nothing or being actively involved.

    And you think it will end up simply being a botched operation? I think you'll be wrong, but we'll see.


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    #26
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    I suppose I just have an open mind on it tbh. A grand conspiracy to allow the bomb to go off so that police officers get to keep their danger money, or to help kick the peace process along just seem a bit far fetched to me.

    That doesn't mean that I think anyone implicated shouldn't be investigated. If it can be proven that members of the security forces were negligent in their duties and/or deliberately covered that up, then I'd want the book thrown at them very hard indeed.


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    #27
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    I salute the Omagh relatives for their courage and tenacity. Let's not forget who was actually found guilty in court - Michael McKevitt and Liam Campbell. :mad:


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    #28
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    maccored wrote: »
    ................

    I want to hear what this evidence is, but it wont be presented until June. Would it surprise me to hear the RUC helped the realIRA just to ensure they kept their lucratively highly paid ('danger money') jobs? Not in the slightest.

    It would suprise me, certainly.


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    #29
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Nodin wrote: »
    It would suprise me, certainly.

    as mentioned - we'll see whenever the report comes out.


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    #30
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    maccored wrote: »
    as mentioned - we'll see whenever the report comes out.

    why start the thread, and give your opinions if only a few posts later you are backing off and don't appear willing to further engage?


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    #31
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    because I havent been given any opinions other than a) im mad, b) im some kind of dranged idiot or c) the RUC had nothing to do with it - regardless of the information that apparently wasnt passed forward (the argument goes no further than 'the RUC didnt do it!'). **** it - may as well just wait til the report comes out if thats the kind of debate there is.

    personally I think the whole thing is highly, highly suspicious.


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