Child Protection Practices: Ignored at Dublin Port

dublinbells · 21-05-2012 6:45pm #1

I witnessed scenes that make me question child protection practises in Ireland. I had to get the bus from UK back to Ireland frequently. On one typical occasion on the bus into Dublin port, there was a woman (who was in possession of an Angolan passport) sitting beside a child. Various other people were on the bus. Another african child was sitting a couple of seats away on its own and did not seem to be talking to anyone.
I thought that border control guards would check visas but this was not the case and passports were not even picked up. People from certain countries e.g. Nigeria, Angola are supposed to have visas before arriving in Ireland.As long as you were in possession of a passport you were waved through, even the unaccompanied child. No records were made by the gardai. There were almost never any checks in Rosslare port for people coming from abroad. I wonder about this, did the father of the Angolan woman’s child give his permission for the child to enter Ireland. Its not like any checks were done. What happened to the unaccompanied minor? What happened to the other child?

By not keeping records of non-EU nationals children coming into the country at our ports and not checking for visas and not following up on what happened to the children, is the Department of Justice not facilitating child trafficking and child endangerment?

I would like to report what went on, but is it naive to report child endangerment to the Department of Justice when they are the one facilitating it? Would I be vicimised if I did?

21-05-2012 7:01pm

To be honest, I don't really understand your logic here. Surely all of the same things could be said of any nationality. Replace african/Angolan with French and ask yourself does it still make sense to check the child's password. When you answer "it's just different" I want to know why exactly. I don't have an answer.

The second issue, is to do with borders, particularly between Ireland & the UK. We have agreed a Common Travel Area between our two countries, which facilities passport-less travel. Under that agreement, it's no more likely to have your passport checked going between Ireland and the UK, than it is going between Leinster and Connaught, or England and Scotland. The assumption of this agreement is that checks are in place when someone enters Ireland or the UK, but once in there, they can move around freely about between our common borders. Given we have a land border with the UK, this makes a lot of sense. Perhaps you don't agree with that arrangement, but it nevertheless exists which is why you didn't see passports being checked.

Had this situation happened on a ferry from France to Ireland, then everyone on board would have had their passports checked, since it's not subject to that agreement.

I think the main thing is that the situation as you describe is people doing their job as intended under international agreements. If there's a genuine reason to suspect child trafficking then definitely report it, and do not worry about being "victimised" - we don't live in a police state.

Hope that helps.

dublinbells · 21-05-2012 7:19pm

P, you are not correct about visa requirements.
People from certain countries e.g. Nigeria, Angola are supposed to have visas before arriving in Ireland. It doesn’t matter that they arrived in from the UK. They still should have the requisite visas.Why did the border officals not ensure the they had those visas?
What about the children they brought with them? Did both parents consent to them entering Ireland? Was documentation sought?
Why did the border officals not keep records of children entering Ireland in such a fashion?

murphaph · 21-05-2012 8:16pm

dublinbells wrote: »

P, you are not correct about visa requirements.
People from certain countries e.g. Nigeria, Angola are supposed to have visas before arriving in Ireland. It doesn’t matter that they arrived in from the UK. They still should have the requisite visas.Why did the border officals not ensure the they had those visas?
What about the children they brought with them? Did both parents consent to them entering Ireland? Was documentation sought?
Why did the border officals not keep records of children entering Ireland in such a fashion?

Probably because of the common travel area.

Ireland and the UK share a porous land border (about 300 miles long IIRC). We cannot for various political reasons fortify that border in any way.

Given that NI is an integral part of the UK, there can be no running documentation checks by any officials whatsoever on people traveling NI<->GB.

So, anyone who is determined to illegally cross the Irish Sea between GB<->ROI can always do so via NI and be sure of no checks anyway. The few checks that are performed are token in nature.

You can't say that the Gardai should be checking Angolans and Nigerians with kids because the Guards cannot possibly know who is Angolan or Nigerian. That black person could just as easily be an Irish or British citizen.

The situation is far from ideal I'll grant you but unless we check all passports from all nationalities at all ports of entry and at all land border crossings (hugely expensive and politically a very hot potato) then there's not a lot of point in ensuring that one port of entry is secure. We must rely on the UK and they must rely on us to police our external borders (external to the CTA) properly. Ideally the UK and Ireland would just join Schengen and Schengen visas could be used.

Nodin · 21-05-2012 8:52pm

dublinbells wrote: »

On one typical occasion on the bus into Dublin port, there was a woman (who was in possession of an Angolan passport) sitting beside a child. Various other people were on the bus. Another african child was sitting a couple of seats away on its own and did not seem to be talking to anyone.
I thought that border control guards would check visas but this was not the case and passports were not even picked up.

How do you know that the woman had an angolan passport?

superluck · 21-05-2012 11:46pm

I'll probably get accused of being racist but anyway...

Name 1 developed country in the world with immigration laws like Ireland, that just allows anyone in almost unconditionally.

There are plenty of people out there visiting Ireland and nobody knows anything about them.

I've known people personally who were badly assaulted by immigrants with criminal records in their home country, do we really need more criminals in the country?

It's not racist to point out Ireland has an inadequate system of controlling who comes and goes from here.

I'm not saying it's feasible to monitor every inch of the borders between UK/Ireland but if someone is going to live here, the local authorities should be aware of their background in their home country...

I don't understand why that's so unreasonable for some people, almost every other country does it.

Nodin · 22-05-2012 12:40am

superluck wrote: »

I'll probably get accused of being racist but anyway...

Name 1 developed country in the world with immigration laws like Ireland, that just allows anyone in almost unconditionally.

...........

We don't 'just allow anyone in almost unconditionally'.

superluck · 22-05-2012 3:39am

What are the requirements then?

Mena · 22-05-2012 5:51am

superluck wrote: »

What are the requirements then?

So, because you don't understand Irish immigration laws, there must be open borders?

Nodin · 22-05-2012 7:33am

superluck wrote: »

What are the requirements then?

Via the wonder of the internet -
http://www.inis.gov.ie/
There's a large number of regulations that depend on circumstance.

Dr Galen · 22-05-2012 11:04am

And on that logical note, this thread ends here, as per the charter, anecdotal stories about such topics are not up to standard, and often don't end well.

Cheers

DrG

Child Protection Practices: Ignored at Dublin Port

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