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Owning a car with Ford / Peugeot 1.6 TDCi / HDi engines.

  • 31-03-2013 12:25am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭


    The merits or otherwise of owning a car powered by the DV6 diesel engine (Ford 1.6 TDCi, PSA 1.6HDi, Suzuki 1.6DDIS etc etc) have been discussed ad nauseum in this and many other for forums. In particular, these engines do not tolerate neglect or improper servicing, which can lead to oil-ways becoming clogged, which in turn can starve the turbo of oil and even write-off the engine itself. It's shame really because these engines otherwise perform strongly with good fuel consumption, and in our case, quite good reliability too.


    My wife has been the owner of Ford C-Max which has one of these engines (110 BHP with a DPF ) for several years now, and mindful of the problems these things can face, I've outlined where I believe the weaknesses lie and the steps that can be taken to mitigate them. During a recent oil change I took the opportunity to grab a few pics to help evidence the opinions and theories I have.

    To give this some background, these engines run fairly hot and especially so if it has a DPF. The DPF regeneration process superheats the DPF to somewhere between 500 and 600 degrees centigrade by means of addition fuel injected during the exhaust stroke, the energising of the glowplugs and the EGR valve remaining closed. An additive called EOLYS is added to the car's diesel from a secondary tank each time you fill up at your local station. This additive lowers the temperature at which soot burns and turns to ash. And assuming the regeneration is successful, the soot is expelled from the exhaust as very fine ash during normal driving, and the whole process repeats itself each time the ECU determines that the DPF's pressure differentials indicate that it needs to regenerate.

    So the first line of defence against any potential horrors is regular and prompt servicing and this is something I personally could not emphasise enough - especially if you are capable and competent enough to service your car yourself. Certainly in Ford's case, the engine uses a fully synthetic low ash oil that conforms to a particular standard. I always recommend buying the correct stuff from Ford because it's reasonably priced (under €30 for 5L) and is fit for purpose. I've used another brand that claimed to meet the Ford specification, but I noticed things with it which I wasn't happy with and stuck with the genuine stuff instead. Another benefit of this is that if you keep your receipts from Ford, it actually counts as a form of service history and proof of regular servicing which should pay dividends when it comes to selling the car on.

    The indicated service schedule is 12,500 miles / 12 months for oil and filter replacement. Our car does ~ 16,000 miles per year, and I change the oil and filter every 6 months. The obvious logic here is that reducing the service life of the oil and filter reduces the risk of the oil sludging and build up of carbon generally inside the engine.

    Here's a pic I posted a while back of a heavily sludged filter (left) from a DV6 in a Mazda 3 where the turbo died, and from the right, our C-max.

    filters2_zpsf60eb035.jpg


    Another potential weakness - that is design related - is the way sump is fabricated. The drain bung is recessed upwards into the sump and the effect of this will prevent the sump from draining completely. Any heavy suspended solids in the oil could remain in the sump rather than draining out with the last of the oil. Ideally, the drain bung should be at the lowest point. One trick which could give a some relief here would be to drain the oil as normal, and then pour say half a litre of oil into the filler and allow it flow down through the engine and out the bottom. This in effect is using the fresh oil as a "mini flush" of sorts.

    b4282cdc-0430-4e5d-b09c-c725d43cd66d_zps0e4bda7b.jpg?t=1364683650

    Ford issued a technical service bulletin some time back about the oil circulation issues and one item they recommended was removing the sump and cleaning the oil pump strainer. The sump will require replacement if it's removed because it goes out of shape when it is originally torqued up and won't seal properly if reused.


    Another thing which I did some time back was to replace the oil feed pipe and banjo bolt / microfilter supplying the turbo. These are also known to clog and starve the turbo of oil. It's a silent failure as there's no warning it has happened until the turbo fails. Another potential design issue here is that the oil feed pipes come from quite high off the block. Temperatures here a higher than lower down, plus if there are any oil feed / oil pressure problems, these will manifest themselves more quickly the higher up the engine one goes.

    turbo_feed_zps92a9c36f.jpg?t=1364683441


    In the pic below, the impeller is in perfect condition. In a defective turbo, the tips of the impeller tips will be bent back as the impeller shaft bearing will fail and allow the tips to come in contact with the turbo's casing. This will be aurally evident if it has happened...

    turbo_zps0931fb08.jpg?t=1364683275

    So the upshot of this is to restate my earlier advice: regular servicing - ahead of schedule if possible -using the correct oil. I've also played it safe by replacing the turbo oil feed pipes. This proactive maintenance regime wont just protect the car, but the documented proof of regular purchases of the correct oil and filters will be a major plus when it comes to selling the car, and would give its new owner the confidence of knowing that they are buying a car that has been well minded and looked after. :)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭Zcott


    +1 for this. I had a 1.6 HDi 307 with 150,000 miles on it and the only issue was a dodgy injector seal. Regular servicing kept it running well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    Brilliant write up, thank you for taking the time to write it up and share :)
    shamwari wrote: »
    Another thing which I did some time back was to replace the oil feed pipe and banjo bolt / microfilter supplying the turbo. These are also known to clog and starve the turbo of oil. It's a silent failure as there's no warning it has happened until the turbo fails. Another potential design issue here is that the oil feed pipes come from quite high off the block. Temperatures here a higher than lower down, plus if there are any oil feed / oil pressure problems, these will manifest themselves more quickly the higher up the engine one goes.

    turbo_feed_zps92a9c36f.jpg?t=1364683441


    In the pic below, the impeller is in perfect condition. In a defective turbo, the tips of the impeller tips will be bent back as the impeller shaft bearing will fail and allow the tips to come in contact with the turbo's casing. This will be aurally evident if it has happened...

    turbo_zps0931fb08.jpg?t=1364683275

    To help with that, when starved of oil the turbo shaft has no film of oil to rotate on thus touches off the main bearing; metal to metal contact which leads to loss of efficiency of the turbo and eventually failure of the turbo

    Here is what happens to the compressor wheel of a turbo that has been starved of oil
    Image2552_zps41f6850a.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    My buddy who's a mechanic was giving out about this just the other day. His opinion was that the engines themselves are fine if properly maintained, just like Alfas. The problem is people in this country rarely service their cars on time, especially once out of warranty hence the issues. Unfortunately that means that anything with a 1.6TDCi is a poor choice as a used car buy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 270 ✭✭Bejubby


    Hi.
    Does the volvo s40 1.6 diesel use this engine?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    I agree with Shamwari. My daughter has a 307hdi and she has spent years driving the sh!t out of it but so far has not got the better of it. I often have to bully her to get the car from her for servicing and I generally get to change the oil about every 9k miles. It now has about 150k miles on it and I believe the more frequent oil change is the life of this engine. The old oil I have drained from this engine is the dirtiest I have ever seen come out of any engine at normal service intervals. If it splashes on anything from your shirt to the garage floor, it will never come off. It's far worse than black paint.

    The other point about injector seals being weak is also true but the dealers have to change so many that it's now a job they can almost do with their eyes closed. In the 307 application the air filter is a hoor to change but other than that the servicing is not too hard.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Agent_47


    Bejubby wrote: »
    Hi.
    Does the volvo s40 1.6 diesel use this engine?

    Yes, and mine is serviced every 15K KM. Turbo and oil filter looks as good as the OP but was told the DPF needed to come off to do the turbo oil line. May check this again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    The DPF needs to be dropped from the turbo to get sufficient room to disconnect the supply pipe from the block. The clamp that attaches the two together will also need to be replaced as it cannot be reused - it goes out of shape when slackened, and won't re-seal properly. Overall, this whole job is a bit a pig to do :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 270 ✭✭Bejubby


    Agent_47 wrote: »
    Yes, and mine is serviced every 15K KM. Turbo and oil filter looks as good as the OP but was told the DPF needed to come off to do the turbo oil line. May check this again.



    thanks for that,i was interested in a volvo but know i think il leave it:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭crosshair1


    Cam chains are also getting a bit popular on these engines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Capri86


    I have the s40 for a year now. Great car and I like the engine. Full Volvo service history with it. I serviced it last August and luckily the oil and filter still looked clean. It's just about due another service.
    The alternator failed on it which has been it's only fault. (albeit an expensive fault) but luckily I saved a fortune fitting it myself.
    Nice to see a thread about this engine.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    The May edition of Car Mechanics Magazine has a two page article on covering some of the known weaknesses with this engine, and also covers electronic diagnostics (in a Ford Focus) in some depth. It's well worth a read if you've one of these cars and an interest in the diagnostics side of things :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    crosshair1 wrote: »
    Cam chains are also getting a bit popular on these engines.
    :confused: Our's has a timing belt!


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Capri86


    shamwari wrote: »
    The May edition of Car Mechanics Magazine has a two page article on covering some of the known weaknesses with this engine, and also covers electronic diagnostics (in a Ford Focus) in some depth. It's well worth a read if you've one of these cars and an interest in the diagnostics side of things :)


    I bought the magazine today. Very good article alright. I decided to have a look at the turbo as I was working on the car anyway. I found a bit of oil surrounding the turbo duct. Checked the impellers but it all seems good. No rattles or bent blades.


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Capri86


    Picture of turbo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Wheelnut wrote: »
    :confused: Our's has a timing belt!

    Believe it or not, the DV6 has both! It's a DOHC engine. One cam, the water and injection pumps are driven by a timing belt from the crank. The second cam is driven by a chain from the first cam.
    Capri86 wrote: »
    Picture of turbo

    That's oil looks normal. It's just oil mist that has collected there from the breather hose which vents from the rocker cover into the intake pipe just before the turbo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭air


    Sorry to pull up an old topic, just wondering there has been any improvements made in the design of the turbo oil feeds on these in the more recent past?
    Am considering purchasing a new Berlingo but this engine is really putting me off.
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Wheelnut


    The oil feed to the turbo is a short length of pipe with a small gauze filter inside. The best option is to just replace the pipe as a service item every 100k miles or so. Unfortunately access is difficult so there are labour costs involved. That begs the question: could you trust a salesman if he said the pipe had been changed?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,025 ✭✭✭Row


    From late 2011 Peugeot/Citroen/afaik ford changed the 1.6 hdi (Dv6) engine to an 8 valve unit (Dv6C) which seems to be trouble free out there so far......... if your buying new then you should be fine..:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭CodeJACK


    Can anyone recommend a garage in Dublin that are familiar/capable of doing this type of preventative maintenance?

    Have a DV6 in my Mazda 3 and it got quite bad smell of diesel in the cabin. In the past this has always been injector seals. Current garage says its not.

    Would be nice to get a reliable inspection of this engine by someone that knows what their doing and are willing to do the preventative stuff.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    I took this picture this morning of the odometer on a 307 1.6HDI. Not bad going I thought! It's had one turbo and a DPF delete but the engine itself has never been touched. Original clutch and flywheel also.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    I took this picture this morning of the odometer on a 307 1.6HDI. Not bad going I thought! It's had one turbo and a DPF delete but the engine itself has never been touched. Original clutch and flywheel also.

    Still quarter of a tank left, great on diesel too....


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