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Gender Recognition Act commenced

  • 05-09-2015 10:46am
    #1
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭


    The Gender Recognition Act was signed into law yesterday by Joan Burton. The requirement to be single is not included in the law because President Higgins signed the marriage equality referendum last week.

    http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=20394040945a32c736eefb556&id=1a917f3c8e

    Fantastic news.

    Delighted that the 18 year horror for Lydia Foy came to an end

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



Comments

  • #2
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Lydia Foy gets an EU Medal of Honour: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/lydia-foy-my-country-has-finally-recognised-me-for-who-i-really-am-697742.html.

    Personally I'm delighted she finally has a birth cert recognising that she is female, a long time waiting what with her being 68 and everything, but better late than never. As tough and all as those of us who are in the L, G or B categories, the violation of our rights is only in the ha'penny place compared to what the trans community have had to go through, at least with the Gender Recognition Bill and so on it will hopefully give some comfort to that community.


  • #3
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    captainspeed wrote: »
    Lydia Foy gets an EU Medal of Honour: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/lydia-foy-my-country-has-finally-recognised-me-for-who-i-really-am-697742.html.

    Personally I'm delighted she finally has a birth cert recognising that she is female, a long time waiting what with her being 68 and everything, but better late than never. As tough and all as those of us who are in the L, G or B categories, the violation of our rights is only in the ha'penny place compared to what the trans community have had to go through, at least with the Gender Recognition Bill and so on it will hopefully give some comfort to that community.

    Its frankly utterly absurd! The issue being debated is gender. The Yogyakarta principle refers to gender. But Irish birth certs may no reference to gender. They refer to sex. Sex and gender are not the same. The Irish State has never documented gender. I have huge empathy for people like Lydia Foy who feel alien in their own skin but Lydia Foy was born of the male sex. The birth cert requires no fixing. Now it records a lie. The whole issue is passing through public discourse without any debate.


  • #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    robp wrote: »
    Its frankly utterly absurd! The issue being debated is gender. The Yogyakarta principle refers to gender. But Irish birth certs may no reference to gender. They refer to sex. Sex and gender are not the same. The Irish State has never documented gender. I have huge empathy for people like Lydia Foy who feel alien in their own skin but Lydia Foy was born of the male sex. The birth cert requires no fixing. Now it records a lie. The whole issue is passing through public discourse without any debate.

    Nope - It's not a lie

    The original birth cert is still there.

    It's absurd you suggest there has been no public debate on this.

    It has been debated extensively; in the High Court, in the oireachtas and on the internet

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #5
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Nope - It's not a lie

    The original birth cert is still there.

    It's absurd you suggest there has been no public debate on this.

    It has been debated extensively; in the High Court, in the oireachtas and on the internet

    Yes it is a lie. The individual was born male! Apart from extremely rare genetic disorders sex is entirely objective.

    The Bill received little debate and rarely ever in the press was there critical coverage.


  • #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    robp wrote: »
    The Bill received little debate and rarely ever in the press was there critical coverage.

    I could dig out all of the debate if you really want

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #7
    strelok
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    or you could just add a short one-two lines explaining why the sex/gender difference doesn't apply here

    that or carry on being a sarky git, your call I suppose.


  • #8
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    strelok wrote: »
    or you could just add a short one-two lines explaining why the sex/gender difference doesn't apply here

    that or carry on being a sarky git, your call I suppose.

    Let me explain the difference between sex and gender. Sex is the biological aspect. If you have xx chromosomes you are female, if you are xy you are male. In contrast gender could not be different. Gender is the spectrum of identities that one possesses. The individual discussed has an acquired female gender. Nothing to do with sex.


  • #9
    BunnyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BunnyRabbit


    There is still quite a bit needs fixing, not just with the age, but what is here now is excellent over what was.

    If you own a business, you need to register the business name or company with companies registration office, which goes on the public record and is available for anyone to see. Required information includes any previous names. This also needs to go on letterheads etc so Ciaran (formerly Ciara) Mc Lastname or vice versa is a legal requirement.

    Non-citizens (which thankfully doesn't include me) aren't allowed to change their name except through marriage or with permission of the government.

    Hopefully these will be ironed out.


  • #10
    BunnyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BunnyRabbit


    robp wrote: »
    Let me explain the difference between sex and gender. Sex is the biological aspect. If you have xx chromosomes you are female, if you are xy you are male. In contrast gender could not be different. Gender is the spectrum of identities that one possesses. The individual discussed has an acquired female gender. Nothing to do with sex.

    Not so.

    What about people with, say, Swyers - XY but born with a vagina?
    What about Chimeras who are a mix of XX and XY?
    What about people with Kleinfelters who are XXY?

    Why put people in boxes?


  • #11
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    BunnyRabbit wrote: »
    Not so.

    What about people with, say, Swyers - XY but born with a vagina?
    What about Chimeras who are a mix of XX and XY?
    What about people with Kleinfelters who are XXY?

    Why put people in boxes?

    This legislation is about not about these conditions. Being honest doesn't put people in boxes. Ignoring objective biology upside doesn't help anyone. That is exactly what the Yogyakarta Principles do.


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  • #12
    BunnyRabbit
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭BunnyRabbit


    robp wrote: »
    Let me explain the difference between sex and gender. Sex is the biological aspect. If you have xx chromosomes you are female, if you are xy you are male. In contrast gender could not be different. Gender is the spectrum of identities that one possesses. The individual discussed has an acquired female gender. Nothing to do with sex.
    BunnyRabbit wrote: »
    Not so.

    What about people with, say, Swyers - XY but born with a vagina?
    What about Chimeras who are a mix of XX and XY?
    What about people with Kleinfelters who are XXY?

    Why put people in boxes?
    robp wrote: »
    This legislation is about not about these conditions. Being honest doesn't put people in boxes. Ignoring objective biology upside doesn't help anyone. That is exactly what the Yogyakarta Principles do.

    Just pointing out not everything is as simple as xx and xy


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