Rough Play

Whispered · 26-10-2010 1:10pm #1

Hey I wonder if anyone here can give me a hand. When my dog plays with others, he's very impolite. He does not read their signals and just goes all in for a rough and tumble game. This is ok with his usual playmates who are all confident large dogs who usually enjoy it and if not are big enough to let him know to back off, but we are again having trouble with him and my dads dog.

She is very slight and a sweet little girl, you can see she really really wants to play but he's just too rough for her and she does not have the confidence to give him a serious reprimand. She will lie there yelping while he bites her or rolls on her and he just wont back off. Now it's all in fun, he is not trying to harm or dominate her, often in the game he'll throw himself on his back to let her "win" and be on top but the fact he doesn't understand what a yelp means worries me. Surely, as a well socialised dog, he should back off if he knows he's actually hurting her.

Any suggestions?

crotalus667 · 26-10-2010 1:23pm

when you pull him off does she try to get away ???

TooManyDogs · 26-10-2010 1:42pm

If your dad's dog won't stand up to your dog then you'll have to do it. You dog needs to be shown exactly where the line is in play. When you see your dad's dog get uncomfortable then make a short sharp noise like 'ah' or 'no' or something like that. It will distract the your dog from the rough play and give your dad's dog a chance to regroup. When they go back playing it should be a bit more gentle, again if it gets really rough then make the noise again. If your dog goes back to playing rough straight away then take him from the room and put him on his own for a couple of minutes. That gives him a chance to calm and teach him that if he plays roughly then the game is over and he's left on his own for a little while.

Normally litter mates will teach other where the limits are when they're playing, it's one theory as to why they have those needle sharp teeth. If he was removed from his litter too early or didn't have any siblings to teach him then he won't have learned how to play nicely. So you get to be his playmate/teacher!

Whispered · 26-10-2010 2:20pm

crotalus667 wrote: »

when you pull him off does she try to get away ???

No she doesn't she runs behind me, then pounces out on him again. She wants the game to continue, just not as rough.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

If your dad's dog won't stand up to your dog then you'll have to do it. You dog needs to be shown exactly where the line is in play. When you see your dad's dog get uncomfortable then make a short sharp noise like 'ah' or 'no' or something like that. It will distract the your dog from the rough play and give your dad's dog a chance to regroup. When they go back playing it should be a bit more gentle, again if it gets really rough then make the noise again. If your dog goes back to playing rough straight away then take him from the room and put him on his own for a couple of minutes. That gives him a chance to calm and teach him that if he plays roughly then the game is over and he's left on his own for a little while.

Normally litter mates will teach other where the limits are when they're playing, it's one theory as to why they have those needle sharp teeth. If he was removed from his litter too early or didn't have any siblings to teach him then he won't have learned how to play nicely. So you get to be his playmate/teacher!

I will try removing him all together, he was with his littermates until about 14 weeks as they were fosters but he was sick and weak and I suppose I over supervised his play with them and didn't give him a chance to learn.

It's pretty sad as they adore each other and I don't want to have to keep them apart when we visit.

One thing which works is if he has a toy in his mouth, he will look for a chase, but she wont chase him. So then he gives up looking for a chase and starts physical play. As soon as they are together, she begins submissive play. She will dive out, tumble him and herself then lie there on her side, wagging her tail waiting for him to jump on her. :rolleyes: There is a pair in it, he is too rough, she's too gentle. haha

crotalus667 · 26-10-2010 2:30pm

Whispered wrote: »

No she doesn't she runs behind me, then pounces out on him again. She wants the game to continue, just not as rough.

If she keeps trying to get at him then it is not too rough for her , other wise she would runaway;)

Whispered · 26-10-2010 2:35pm

Ah no it is, she yelps and he continues. I've had to run up the garden to get him off her. Then I drag him off, she jumps up and hides behind me. I block him, he looses interest, then she tries to restart the game. So she's perfectly happy to play with him if I'm right there blocking him, or if he's not really that interested.

I know the obvious solution would be to stay out with them all the time but they have an acre of bushes, long grass etc to play in and we used to be able to leave them out together. When they are playing nicely it's so wonderful to watch. They're like two hurricanes flying around. It's just as he is maturing he has overtaken her in size (they are the same age) and hasn't learned to control it.

crotalus667 · 26-10-2010 3:17pm

I know when i took my fella to puppy class during playtime there was one puppy that yelped all the time and it was the one that wound the other dogs , if you rally want the behavour to stop give your dog time outs (30 secs in a room with nothing to do should be enough)

tk123 · 26-10-2010 9:07pm

Whispered wrote: »

you can see she really really wants to play but he's just too rough for her and she does not have the confidence to give him a serious reprimand

Sorry to hijack but I was going to post something similar because my dog is like your dad's!!! He's a 15 month old golden retriever and he'll rough house with his friend but eg a terrier pup was litterly hanging out of his face the other day and he didn't bark/yelp or tell him to stop. Another pup was trying to hump him the other day which the owner thought was hilarious (their dog has no recall/training so ignored their commands to come back to them/stop) but it was pi$$ing me off a little because I want my guy to be confident and not afraid. After a few mins of my guy trying to walk away from him he started growling and showing his teeth which he never does..Do I step in or let him handle it!?

fishfoodie · 26-10-2010 9:59pm

Whispered wrote: »

Hey I wonder if anyone here can give me a hand. When my dog plays with others, he's very impolite. He does not read their signals and just goes all in for a rough and tumble game. This is ok with his usual playmates who are all confident large dogs who usually enjoy it and if not are big enough to let him know to back off, but we are again having trouble with him and my dads dog.

She is very slight and a sweet little girl, you can see she really really wants to play but he's just too rough for her and she does not have the confidence to give him a serious reprimand. She will lie there yelping while he bites her or rolls on her and he just wont back off. Now it's all in fun, he is not trying to harm or dominate her, often in the game he'll throw himself on his back to let her "win" and be on top but the fact he doesn't understand what a yelp means worries me. Surely, as a well socialised dog, he should back off if he knows he's actually hurting her.

Any suggestions?

I gotta say; after reading all your replies on this thread, I'm actually struggling to see where the problem is ?

I think you may be being a bit too sensitive to the way your dogs are playing ?

Of course it's difficult to be sure without seeing the dogs in action, but like parents, dog owners can sometimes get a bit too protective, & forget that what they're dealing with.

If one dog keeps going back & even instigating play, that you consider too rough, that seems to me like that dog doesn't find it too rough & actually enjoys it !

Not saying for sure, just maybe something for you to keep in mind.

lrushe · 27-10-2010 7:39am

Having a Chihuahua and Rottie who like to wrestle I have to keep a close eye on their play. In fairness to my Rottie she has great restraint when playing but there has been time where a nip has been too hard and somebody yelps (usually the Chi) and then it's time out and I end the game. It might seem extreme but accidents can and do happen and it's my job to keep both dogs safe and if that means a cooling down period then so be it.
Maybe bring Harley out before you bring him over to your Dad's, or play fetch with him in the garden before he gets to play with your Dad's dog to burn off some excess energy so he's not so hyper when playing and more likely to listen to the other dog's signals

lrushe · 27-10-2010 7:49am

tk123 wrote: »

Sorry to hijack but I was going to post something similar because my dog is like your dad's!!! He's a 15 month old golden retriever and he'll rough house with his friend but eg a terrier pup was litterly hanging out of his face the other day and he didn't bark/yelp or tell him to stop. Another pup was trying to hump him the other day which the owner thought was hilarious (their dog has no recall/training so ignored their commands to come back to them/stop) but it was pi$$ing me off a little because I want my guy to be confident and not afraid. After a few mins of my guy trying to walk away from him he started growling and showing his teeth which he never does..Do I step in or let him handle it!?

I can't see a problem in your dogs behaviour. He showed great restraint and tolerance with the terrier pup and that's a good thing, nobody wants a dog who bites first and asks questions later. The second dog crossed the line and you're dog gave great warning to the other dog ie. growling etc. that his behaviour wasn't acceptable, again this is v.acceptable behaviour. I would say let your dog handled it until the point that he becomes uncomfortable and then it's time for you to step in.

here.from.day.1 · 27-10-2010 9:50am

My dog has no friends..

I feel bad now after reading this! I mean my dog has the family around but there are not many other dogs in the area. How important is contact with other dogs?

tk123 · 27-10-2010 10:48am

lrushe wrote: »

I can't see a problem in your dogs behaviour. He showed great restraint and tolerance with the terrier pup and that's a good thing, nobody wants a dog who bites first and asks questions later. The second dog crossed the line and you're dog gave great warning to the other dog ie. growling etc. that his behaviour wasn't acceptable, again this is v.acceptable behaviour. I would say let your dog handled it until the point that he becomes uncomfortable and then it's time for you to step in.

Thanks!!! He used to be very very shy so thats probably why i worry about him! :pac::rolleyes: Maybe he was letting the humper away with it cos he's younger - he's used to puppies from daycare and seems to have a lot of patience with them so as usual I'm probably worrying for nothing!

antomagoo · 27-10-2010 11:04am

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

My dog has no friends.. I feel bad now after reading this! I mean my dog has the family around but there are not many other dogs in the area. How important is contact with other dogs?

I'd say contact with other dogs is as equally important if not more so than contact with other humans, just my opinion though.

Have you tried doggy day care? Dog Training Ireland in Blanchardstown have a great facility, our dog goes one day a week.

Where are you located?

here.from.day.1 · 27-10-2010 11:11am

antomagoo wrote: »

I'd say contact with other dogs is as equally important if not more so than contact with other humans, just my opinion though.

Have you tried doggy day care? Dog Training Ireland in Blanchardstown have a great facility, our dog goes one day a week.

Where are you located?

My dog lives in the country in Meath, she is coming up to 11 now though and as such I would imagine she is very used to her way of life. Any time any neighbours are around or walking by with their dogs she normally pays very little attention to the dog and instead goes to the person (usually with a stick or ball for them to throw for her.)

antomagoo · 27-10-2010 11:21am

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

My dog lives in the country in Meath, she is coming up to 11 now though and as such I would imagine she is very used to her way of life. Any time any neighbours are around or walking by with their dogs she normally pays very little attention to the dog and instead goes to the person (usually with a stick or ball for them to throw for her.)

I'd say at that age she is well entrenched in her way of life. Friends dogs who are older than ours tend to pay very little attention to her when she is trying to interact with them

Whispered · 27-10-2010 6:43pm

I saw you had posted antomagoo and thought you were here to say to fishfoodie "no, she's not being over sensitive, her dog is a little monster" :pac:

I know what you are saying fishfoodie, but she does be very uncomfortable with some aspects of his play, while happy with the others, she just doesn't have the confidence to let him know where the line is. I suppose thats up to me so. I can promise you that when it comes to other dogs I'm not over protective. In fact it's my dog doing the bad thing so thats certainly not me trying to "protect" him or anything, the opposite really.

TK123 - your dog sounds like a very well adjusted young chap - I wouldn't be worrying!

antomagoo · 27-10-2010 9:38pm

Whispered wrote: »

I saw you had posted antomagoo and thought you were here to say to fishfoodie "no, she's not being over sensitive, her dog is a little monster" :pac:

The way Harley and Rosie play together it would like they are fighting if anyone didnt know better

tk123 · 28-10-2010 1:07pm

Whispered wrote: »

TK123 - your dog sounds like a very well adjusted young chap - I wouldn't be worrying!

:pac: Thanks!! If it's any help for your problem he's a bit braver with us and has crossed the line a few times say jumping up/play biting - every time we use his bold phrase ("too bad") and fold our arms and walk away or if that didn't stop him put him out. It worked to both reinforce that too bad meant he was being bold and he needed to stop what he was doing and also showed him what was too rough in terms of play with us. So maybe working on a bold word/phrase so he learns where to draw the line might help?

Jimmy Bottlehead · 28-10-2010 3:56pm

Our dog (a rescue terrier mongrel thingy

) is really energetic and rough and playful, so she does the same thing to other dogs, and also the wee kitten we got a few weeks ago! Kitten is learning to fight back playfully, but still gets knocked about all the time. Think more socialisation is probably a good thing for the OP's dad's dog?

Whispered · 28-10-2010 6:52pm

tk123 wrote: »

every time we use his bold phrase ("too bad") and fold our arms and walk away or if that didn't stop him put him out.

Are you a customer of emmaline?

TK123 - he is a dream when playing with people. He can be over excited and jump, he mouths and rough plays with Kieran (my OH) but never with me unless I invite play. With new people he'll try to suss them out to see what type of play they like

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Think more socialisation is probably a good thing for the OP's dad's dog?

Actually, I had never considered that, really, she is the only dog who is so nervous of him and while rough and bouncy, he has been socialised since a pup (although always with large dogs). Maybe I need to work on her confidence somehow as well as my boys playing style.

tk123 · 28-10-2010 6:53pm

Whispered wrote: »

Are you a customer of emmaline?

Nope - DTI

Rough Play

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