Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

cdebru · 16-12-2014 12:08pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The dole is about €18k a year. You're about 10 grand better off working with DB. That's perfectly acceptable for a low/intermediate skill job. Even after I got my degree, I started work on only €28k those with less education would be lucky to get such a starting off wage with a private company.

Average family 2 adults and 2 children social welfare is 372.4x52 =19364.8
Dublin rent allowance 2 adults 2 children is 975 a month = 11700 total

31064.80

then you also qualify for full medical cards for entire family so no doctors, no medicine costs other than a small prescription charge hard to quantify could be worth thousands per year.

Back to school allowance between €200 and €400 a year depending on childrens age

Christmas bonus this year is 25% so another €92

On top of that you have access to the community welfare office when a big bill comes or you need an new household appliance etc

This is all without tax or prsi or USC to earn that money after all those you would need to be on nearly €50,000 a year.

You depending on your circumstances ( and 2 adults 2 children would be the average household) can be a lot worse off working for DB than being on the dole hence why it took so long to try and find 100 new staff. Hence why people turned up and deliberately failed their interview.

Baron Kurtz · 16-12-2014 12:12pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

So you are happy to come onto an internet forum to complain yet not to take any sort of action?

She's offering her views and experiences on a thread here. God forbid it might be expressed unfavourably about DB. Of course this is something you've never done I'm sure? Always a strongly worded letter to the top dog with you, yeah?

Ardeehey · 16-12-2014 12:20pm

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

She's offering her views and experiences on a thread here. God forbid it might be expressed unfavourably about DB. Of course this is something you've never done I'm sure? Always a strongly worded letter to the top dog with you, yeah?

It's a shame that the poster had poor experiences and there's no excusing the attitude of the driver but to state that it seems common place based off 2 experiences out of 5 is just too narrow a sample size. I've used the buses in all parts of the city for years and have very few confrontational or embarrassing experiences, plenty of idiots but as long as I get where I want to go I can ignore a lot. Plus she really should have realized that cash isn't taken, she states looking at the fares on the website but I'm pretty sure that it also states no cash accepted. Poster did a poor job of acquainting themselves with the process. If I am travelling anywhere on public transport I'm not familiar with then I will check these details beforehand.

cdebru · 16-12-2014 12:28pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Or you could park in Jervis st for eur 2.70 per hour or in Connolly station for 8 for the whole day.

Say a car manages 7 l/100km; thats 2.1l for a 30km round trip and <eur 3 in fuel.

You are right to ignore tax and insurance costs, as they will be there whether you travel by bus or not.

I'd say a 3 hour trip is about half the price you quoted.

Jervis is €2.80 an hour

http://www.jervis.ie/parking/fees

And obviously depending on your driving style, car and fuel economy but urban city driving you would be doing very well to do 7l/100km if you enter all the details here a 30km round trip doing an average speed of 25kmph with 5l/100km paying 1.40 a litre is in around €7

http://www.tripcalculator.org/ireland-travel-distance-calculator.html

So even allowing for you to be lucky enough to get into Connolly and park for €8 for the day it is still €15
compared to €13.50 which in my book is not cheaper

cdebru · 16-12-2014 12:36pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

True Glinda. You see guys I hate to be patronising but allowing certain drivers to leave when they like, to pass by people at stops to abuse customers or to have general attitude problems isn't how you run a service.

No one leaves when they like, all journeys are recorded on GPS, if a driver leaves late or early it is recorded and shows up on the controllers screen. no one is allowed to pass people at stops, presuming there is space on the bus and that the person wishing to board has given a clear signal and in good time. No one is allowed to abuse anyone staff to passengers or passengers to staff.

Glinda · 16-12-2014 12:40pm

Point taken, but I don't think a regular user would have had the problems I did, because they would already know what they were doing and hence wouldn't need to interact with the driver. I was to all intents and purposes a 'new' user. Now I'm an 'ex-user' instead of a customer

LXFlyer · 16-12-2014 12:53pm

Glinda wrote: »

Point taken, but I don't think a regular user would have had the problems I did, because they would already know what they were doing and hence wouldn't need to interact with the driver. I was to all intents and purposes a 'new' user. Now I'm an 'ex-user' instead of a customer

I regularly interact with the drivers if I'm only taking short trips and as I say I just don't have that experience. It isn't representative of the vast majority of drivers.

By the sounds of things you were just very unlucky but I can understand why you'd be put off using the bus in the future as a result of it.

AlekSmart · 16-12-2014 1:06pm

Ardeehey wrote: »

It's a shame that the poster had poor experiences and there's no excusing the attitude of the driver but to state that it seems common place based off 2 experiences out of 5 is just too narrow a sample size. I've used the buses in all parts of the city for years and have very few confrontational or embarrassing experiences, plenty of idiots but as long as I get where I want to go I can ignore a lot. Plus she really should have realized that cash isn't taken, she states looking at the fares on the website but I'm pretty sure that it also states no cash accepted. Poster did a poor job of acquainting themselves with the process. If I am travelling anywhere on public transport I'm not familiar with then I will check these details beforehand.

All quite relevant....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/

Getting on the bus – How to pay

Tell the driver where you want to go.

The driver will tell you how much your fare is.

Whenever possible please try to have the correct coins available for your fare. All Dublin Bus services are exact fare only (except Airlink 747) and drivers cannot accept euro notes or give change.

Put your coins in the automatic fare machine which you will see in front of the driver.

The driver will give you the ticket for your journey. Please keep your ticket for inspection.

If you do not have the correct coins for your fare the driver will give you a change receipt.

You can use this to collect your change at
Dublin Bus Head Office,
59 Upper O’Connell Street, Dublin 1.

At the end of the day,Public Transport is just that....PUBLIC.....The Omnibus is there for ALL.

There can be a vast difference in peoples perceptions of individual incidents and attitudes..all of which has been intensified in the modern Electronic Communication era....;)

There always will be a cohort of people for whom Public Transport represents a challenge,both Staff and Customer alike.

By and large however,most of my working days go by in relative calm,just as with Commercial Pilots really....99% Boredom-1% Sheer Terror....simplistic but it does make a point

Glinda · 16-12-2014 1:32pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

So you are happy to come onto an internet forum to complain yet not to take any sort of action?

Sigh... again, missing the point and trying to get the customer to adjust their behaviour instead of the company...

Besides, this is a discussion of DB's service, I am not making a complaint, just sharing my perspective.

AlekSmart · 16-12-2014 2:10pm

Glinda wrote: »

Sigh... again, missing the point and trying to get the customer to adjust their behaviour instead of the company...

Besides, this is a discussion of DB's service, I am not making a complaint, just sharing my perspective.

A perspective which is welcome and relevant.

However,for maximum sharing effect it should also be shared,at the time of the incident,with BAC via it's Customer Comment line at 8734222 or customecomment@dublinbus.ie or any of the other social media avenues.

I deal face to face with several hundred people each working day and night,each one with individual needs,demands and perceptions,oftenn varying wildly.

I deal with the sober,the intoxicated,the anti-social,the violent,the criminal,the emotionally disturbed,the old,the young,the incapicated,the disabled...and finally those who do not fit any of those criteria.

I can often deal with all of these groups in the same transaction or several times in the one journey...they can be relaxed,agitated,lively,semi-comatose,confrontational,uncooperative,violent and each of these traits has to be recognized,dealt with and boxed-off individually before moving on the the next person in the
line.

I have had ladies step over bleeding,incapicated passengers to enquire of me if I was going to be much longer,with the injured party moaning in pain in the background.

I have regualarly to adjudicate bewteen persons pushing occupied buggies through queing passengers.

I have had wheelchair bound passengers engage in fist-fights with other passengers

I have "Children" regularly tell me that they have no busfare,but cos they are a minor,I can't put them off....

I have persons complaining of smoking on board,as they leave the bus.....rarely during a journey though...

Do I get the reactive mix correct all of the time ?...do I hell !!!

Sometimes I slip,sometimes I fail miserably...most times I straddle the medium and manage to satisfy the Greater Good,that of the ordinary commuter who simply wants to get from A to B and with as little commotion as possible,often times in order to do this,I have to burst somebody else's individual baloon,and in doing so ensure that individuals personal experience is Negative....There's no way I can make the journey's omlette without breaking at least some eggs.

In Public Transport worldwide...some we win...some we lose...and that is a constant !

cdebru · 16-12-2014 2:15pm

Glinda wrote: »

Sigh... again, missing the point and trying to get the customer to adjust their behaviour instead of the company...

Besides, this is a discussion of DB's service, I am not making a complaint, just sharing my perspective.

I fairness he wasn't asking to adjust your behavior or accept anything, his point is, you had a bad experience, and you avoid DB as far as possible and that DB should improve. But how can it if it doesn't know it has a problem ? There is no magic by which DB can find out what your experience was or address it if you dont tell them, at the end of the day DB trained and sent that driver out to do a job and unless they hear otherwise they have a reasonable expectation that he is doing that job properly.

That said people should also understand that DB can't just sack someone because they make a complaint it takes time to build a profile that they can act on.

Glinda · 16-12-2014 2:33pm

cdebru wrote: »

I fairness he wasn't asking to adjust your behavior or accept anything, his point is, you had a bad experience, and you avoid DB as far as possible and that DB should improve. But how can it if it doesn't know it has a problem ? There is no magic by which DB can find out what your experience was or address it if you dont tell them, at the end of the day DB trained and sent that driver out to do a job and unless they hear otherwise they have a reasonable expectation that he is doing that job properly.

That said people should also understand that DB can't just sack someone because they make a complaint it takes time to build a profile that they can act on.

The problem with that argument (from a company's point of view) is precisely that the vast majority of (especially Irish) people who have an unsatisfactory experience don't actually complain, they just stop using your service.

So, your choices as a company then are a) do nothing (and justify this by convincing yourself that it isn't the company's fault if customers are a shower of moany-holes who don't make proper use of the complaints channels or b) recognise that the responsibility for improving customer service is the company's and do something to actively manage the way the staff interact with the customers.

ThunbergsAreGo · 16-12-2014 2:40pm

Glinda wrote: »

The problem with that argument (from a company's point of view) is precisely that the vast majority of (especially Irish) people who have an unsatisfactory experience don't actually complain, they just stop using your service.

So, your choices as a company then are a) do nothing (and justify this by convincing yourself that it isn't the company's fault if customers are a shower of moany-holes who don't make proper use of the complaints channels or b) recognise that the responsibility for improving customer service is the company's and do something to actively manage the way the staff interact with the customers.

Sorry it wasnt a dig at you, just more the attitude you highlighted in bold.
I generally tweet DublinBus when I have a bad experience and then provide them with information. (Transport is probably the only thing I use Twitter for).

I understand it can be confusing for people and some of the bus drivers are really rude, but so are shop assistants, accountants, CEOs etc. I would like rude people like you encountered would be held accountable so new users dont have a bad experience themselves.

“Well, animals are a lot like people, Mrs. Simpson. Some of them act badly because they’ve had a hard life or have been mistreated. But, like people, some of them are just jerks. Stop that, Mr. Simpson.” – Wildlife Refuge Guy"

cdebru · 16-12-2014 2:51pm

Glinda wrote: »

The problem with that argument (from a company's point of view) is precisely that the vast majority of (especially Irish) people who have an unsatisfactory experience don't actually complain, they just stop using your service.

So, your choices as a company then are a) do nothing (and justify this by convincing yourself that it isn't the company's fault if customers are a shower of moany-holes who don't make proper use of the complaints channels or b) recognise that the responsibility for improving customer service is the company's and do something to actively manage the way the staff interact with the customers.

But the problem is there are 3200 people working in DB over 2000 drivers if customers dont point out the ones that they are having a problem with how can they know who is good or bad ? DB does do customer care courses, disability awareness, customer focus, etc etc all drivers do a CPC course every year, the nature of the beast is that you can't physically actively manage how someone behaves when they are out on the road, and unless people actually go through the process of identifying the problem and when and who then there is absolutely nothing DB nor any other company can do.
We know you claim to have had a bad experience but we don't know where or when on what route nothing we dont know if it was an isolated incident of a driver who was just having a bad day or someone with a ****ty atitude we dont even know if it ever happened or happened the way you portray it so that leaves you with what ? Just keeping sending everyone on a customer care course and hopefully the unknown driver will improve, if there was even a problem who knows ?

In the time you have spent here discussing it you could have wrote an email to DB and actually done something to improve the service, just moaning on boards doesn't really achieve anything if you dont back it up by actually complaining properly.

Yakuza · 16-12-2014 2:58pm

This day and age, anyone who is a regular Dublin Bus user and doesn't use Leap or some other prepaid ticket is foolishly p1ssing their money away. A 30-day rambler costs €147.50, or just under a fiver a day, cheaper than the €5.60 quoted above for two trips into town and you can take as many trips as you like on it for the day. The same journey with a Leap card is €4.10, a total no-brainer to get a Leap card if you ask me.

cgcsb · 16-12-2014 3:16pm

cdebru wrote: »

Average family 2 adults and 2 children social welfare is 372.4x52 =19364.8
Dublin rent allowance 2 adults 2 children is 975 a month = 11700 total

Assuming that your spouse is unemployed and that you are on rent allowance. You could equally have a spouse in full time employment and live in social housing, or have private rent/mortgage.

cdebru wrote: »

then you also qualify for full medical cards for entire family so no doctors, no medicine costs other than a small prescription charge hard to quantify could be worth thousands per year.

one could have a medical card without being on the dole also.

cdebru wrote: »

Back to school allowance between €200 and €400 a year depending on childrens age

possible when one is working.

cdebru wrote: »

On top of that you have access to the community welfare office when a big bill comes or you need an new household appliance etc

Technically everyone has access to the community welfare officer even when your status in the country is not legal.

end of the road · 16-12-2014 3:30pm

Glinda wrote: »

The problem with that argument (from a company's point of view) is precisely that the vast majority of (especially Irish) people who have an unsatisfactory experience don't actually complain, they just stop using your service.

So, your choices as a company then are a) do nothing (and justify this by convincing yourself that it isn't the company's fault if customers are a shower of moany-holes who don't make proper use of the complaints channels or b) recognise that the responsibility for improving customer service is the company's and do something to actively manage the way the staff interact with the customers.

well as people don't bother to complain. the first answer is all they can do. you can't improve something unless you know there is a problem

_Kaiser_ · 16-12-2014 3:54pm

lxflyer wrote: »

OP when exactly are you ever waiting up to 30 minutes in Donnybrook for an inbound bus?

Why are you still paying cash?

Cash fares are artificially inflated to encourage people to use LEAP, which would make your fare €2.05 each way.

Just on this (and similar posts)

It is ridiculous that people should be paying over €2 for that sort of short journey when 8 years ago you could travel from Blanch to the city for less!

Same buses, same routes (more or less - although you could also argue that ND has messed that up too by stripping routes and extending others), poor customer service, increased journey times and this despite a recession and less traffic on the roads (until the last year)

I accept that DB's government subsidy has decreased, fuel has gone up etc - but is it the customer's job to keep funding this?

As I keep saying, maybe if DB tackled the waste in staffing and stopped throwing out perfectly good buses, and squandering money on toys like WiFi, RTPI that works randomly, and ticket machines that were already obsolete when they went in, they might see some actual savings. LEAP? By all accounts on this forum that's still a mess.

The MAXIMUM (cash) fare for a trip like Blanch to town should be €2. Charging people the guts of €7 to get to and from work on the same (or worse) service there was 8 years ago is ridiculous - no wonder that the bus is seen as the alternative for those with no better option.

Trond · 16-12-2014 4:03pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Just on this (and similar posts)

It is ridiculous that people should be paying over €2 for that sort of short journey when 8 years ago you could travel from Blanch to the city for less!

Same buses, same routes (more or less - although you could also argue that ND has messed that up too by stripping routes and extending others), poor customer service, increased journey times and this despite a recession and less traffic on the roads (until the last year)

I accept that DB's government subsidy has decreased, fuel has gone up etc - but is it the customer's job to keep funding this?

As I keep saying, maybe if DB tackled the waste in staffing and stopped throwing out perfectly good buses, and squandering money on toys like WiFi, RTPI that works randomly, and ticket machines that were already obsolete when they went in, they might see some actual savings. LEAP? By all accounts on this forum that's still a mess.

The MAXIMUM (cash) fare for a trip like Blanch to town should be €2. Charging people the guts of €7 to get to and from work on the same (or worse) service there was 8 years ago is ridiculous - no wonder that the bus is seen as the alternative for those with no better option.

The Leap card is excellent imo, the machines work fine. Free Wifi is far from a useless toy as you put it. You obviously don't use buses yourself.

Also you're living in dreamland with a €2 euro fair from Blanch to town.

Your whole post sounds like the transcript of a call into Joe Duffy to get a debate started....

_Kaiser_ · 16-12-2014 4:15pm

Trond wrote: »

The Leap card is excellent imo, the machines work fine. Free Wifi is far from a useless toy as you put it. You obviously don't use buses yourself.

Also you're living in dreamland with a €2 euro fair from Blanch to town.

Your whole post sounds like the transcript of a call into Joe Duffy to get a debate started....

I don't listen to RTE radio so I'll take your word on that.

You're right, I don't use buses anymore. I did for the best part of 30 years though and in that time very little has changed - still overpriced, unreliable, slow, and with variable quality drivers (both in terms of driving ability and customer interaction)

8 years ago (at the height of the boom and before the recession) a trip from Blanch to the City Centre cost under €2. Same AV/AX buses as we have now, more-or-less the same route, still took ages then too, and buses were frequently missing from the timetable. Despite the now annual fare increases very little has changed from all I read here.

As for the toys - WiFi, patchy RTPI etc are sure a nice to have, but not when you have core issues with the basic running of your service from A to B.

The LEAP card is about 20 years too late and has been rolled out in a very amateurish haphazard manner. Celebrating because we got something like this EVENTUALLY hardly warrants applause IMO.

But yes, thanks to all of the above I would rather run a car for the 15 minute trip I have to work now than be forced to put up with that again.. life is too short and I have better things to do with my time

And therein lies the problem for DB - because once a passenger like me is lost, it's very hard to win them back and the "free pass" people won't cover it either

Carawaystick · 16-12-2014 4:17pm

cdebru wrote: »

Jervis is €2.80 an hour

http://www.jervis.ie/parking/fees

There is more than 1 car park on Jervis st.
there is also 3 hours parking for a fiver in the Ilac at the weekend.

cdebru wrote: »

And obviously depending on your driving style, car and fuel economy but urban city driving you would be doing very well to do 7l/100km if you enter all the details here a 30km round trip doing an average speed of 25kmph with 5l/100km paying 1.40 a litre is in around €7

The litres/100km is a measure of the fuel used. 5 litres at EUR1.40 is seven euros yeah, but if you're only travelling 30 km its EUR2.10 for the litre and a half.

Modern diesel cars would easily average <7l/100km in the city, especially as most of a 15km trip is likely to be on more free flowing roads.
To cost 7 euros in fuel for a 30 km trip you'ld be looking at 23+ l/100km

Glinda · 16-12-2014 4:20pm

end of the road wrote: »

well as people don't bother to complain. the first answer is all they can do. you can't improve something unless you know there is a problem

This makes my point for me - of course you can if you are proactive. If you really want to succeed then you go and find out what the problems are and then you take steps to address them. It is the company's responsibility to do this, nobody else's.

But of course if they are looking for excuses for failings rather than solutions then they will find plenty. It won't solve the problem in the end, but they'll feel much better about going down the tubes I suppose.

steddyeddy · 16-12-2014 4:37pm

I complained three times for very good reasons and only received a response once.

end of the road · 16-12-2014 4:52pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I accept that DB's government subsidy has decreased, fuel has gone up etc - but is it the customer's job to keep funding this?

who else is going to fund it? thats the million euro question. the government don't want to pay as much, and the customer doesn't want to pay or at least pay as much. public transport has to be payed for some way. everyone needs to realize this.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As I keep saying, maybe if DB tackled the waste in staffing and stopped throwing out perfectly good buses, and squandering money on toys like WiFi, RTPI that works randomly, and ticket machines that were already obsolete when they went in, they might see some actual savings.

i agree, but maybe those staff will be needed again in the future. and this is the point. its all well and good getting rid of staff, but new staff have to be taken on eventually once needed again, meaning loss of expertese and new training costs. DB would be caught between a rock and a hard place either way. the bus issue i agree with all though i can kind of see why they do it. they can get good money and put money toards upgradeing the fleet, whereas if they left the busses to life expirey they would get scrap value which wouldn't help buy new busses. again, caught between a rock and a hard place either way.

end of the road · 16-12-2014 5:00pm

Glinda wrote: »

This makes my point for me - of course you can if you are proactive.

proactive how. every company relies on customer feedback to find problems, its the nature of the game and is the most cost effective way of doing things. the customer is the user, so its up to the customer to tell the company what they want and what issues exist as they will know.

Glinda wrote: »

If you really want to succeed then you go and find out what the problems are and then you take steps to address them. It is the company's responsibility to do this, nobody else's.

so what do you expect them to do. have a person on every bus monitoring the driver? can you imagine how much that is going to cost? who is going to pay for it? i'd like to see someone else on the busses along with the driver to sort out any issues and check tickets but i realize its just not going to happen and would be to costly.

Glinda wrote: »

But of course if they are looking for excuses for failings rather than solutions then they will find plenty.

yeah. you should have wrote to them with your experiences.

Glinda wrote: »

It won't solve the problem in the end, but they'll feel much better about going down the tubes I suppose.

its not cost effective to have the type of solution you want.

Alun · 16-12-2014 5:03pm

end of the road wrote: »

proactive how. ... so what do you expect them to do. have a person on every bus monitoring the driver?

Not every bus, perhaps, but many shops employ the concept of 'secret shoppers', so why not extend that idea to service providers such as DB?

end of the road · 16-12-2014 5:26pm

Alun wrote: »

Not every bus, perhaps, but many shops employ the concept of 'secret shoppers', so why not extend that idea to service providers such as DB?

and again, while it might be a nice idea, who is paying for it, where is the money going to come from?

cdebru · 16-12-2014 5:53pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Assuming that your spouse is unemployed and that you are on rent allowance. You could equally have a spouse in full time employment and live in social housing, or have private rent/mortgage.

one could have a medical card without being on the dole also.

possible when one is working.

Technically everyone has access to the community welfare officer even when your status in the country is not legal.

Yes you could equally win the lotto, but if you read what I said it was that some people are better off on the dole than working for Dublin Bus ie the average married man or woman with a spouse at home and 2 kids, nothing outlandish just the average family.

one could but they count your gross income not net so on a bus drivers wage you would be above the threshold with the average family.

Again they count your gross income so average family 2+2 you are above the limits for back to school

And again the community welfare officer would count your gross income and tell you sorry nothing I can do.

One of the joys of working in this country is that if you go out to work the state basically discriminates against you, it counts money that you have no access to as income like the tax you pay it doesn't discount other money that you have to pay out like maintenance, so even if your disposable income is below that of someone on social welfare it is just tough ****, but if you don't work then everything is there for you, meanwhile people queue up to tell you, you are overpaid.

cdebru · 16-12-2014 6:29pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Just on this (and similar posts)

It is ridiculous that people should be paying over €2 for that sort of short journey when 8 years ago you could travel from Blanch to the city for less!

Same buses, same routes (more or less - although you could also argue that ND has messed that up too by stripping routes and extending others), poor customer service, increased journey times and this despite a recession and less traffic on the roads (until the last year)

I accept that DB's government subsidy has decreased, fuel has gone up etc - but is it the customer's job to keep funding this?

As I keep saying, maybe if DB tackled the waste in staffing and stopped throwing out perfectly good buses, and squandering money on toys like WiFi, RTPI that works randomly, and ticket machines that were already obsolete when they went in, they might see some actual savings. LEAP? By all accounts on this forum that's still a mess.

The MAXIMUM (cash) fare for a trip like Blanch to town should be €2. Charging people the guts of €7 to get to and from work on the same (or worse) service there was 8 years ago is ridiculous - no wonder that the bus is seen as the alternative for those with no better option.

Couple of things, waste in staffing examples please ?

The NTA is buying and replacing buses, and the buses being sold on are over 10 years old with hundreds of thousands of miles on the clock, they use much more fuel, they need much more maintenance and they may be suitable for the school run etc but they are not suitable for being on the road 20 hours a day.

Wifi and RTPI are NTA initiatives and people actually really like them, even if you don't.

Network direct, it was pointed out here at the time that cross city routes are difficult to timetable and make reliable that is what has happened the 27 was a great route the 77 was a fairly good route as well but together they are ****e, too long too difficult to regulate huge gaps on both sides. But the "experts" including those here all said it would be great, and journey times were actually decreased, for example the 27, 8 years ago had an hour to get from clarehall to talbot street today it is timetabled to get to Eden Quay in 40 minutes of course the down side is that it has made it more unreliable

Cash fares are inflated to encourage you to use leap, it is common practise around the world in public transport to encourage the prepaid option by inflating the cash price, handling cash is not only expensive it is costly in time and slows dwell times increasing journey times.

Lastly only an idiot would be paying the guts of €7 to get from blanchardstown to city and back everyday

As usual you contradict yourself at almost every turn, you want cheap cash fares but faster journey times, just populist nonsense you haven't even thought through.

LXFlyer · 16-12-2014 6:39pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Just on this (and similar posts)

It is ridiculous that people should be paying over €2 for that sort of short journey when 8 years ago you could travel from Blanch to the city for less!

Same buses, same routes (more or less - although you could also argue that ND has messed that up too by stripping routes and extending others), poor customer service, increased journey times and this despite a recession and less traffic on the roads (until the last year)

I accept that DB's government subsidy has decreased, fuel has gone up etc - but is it the customer's job to keep funding this?

As I keep saying, maybe if DB tackled the waste in staffing and stopped throwing out perfectly good buses, and squandering money on toys like WiFi, RTPI that works randomly, and ticket machines that were already obsolete when they went in, they might see some actual savings. LEAP? By all accounts on this forum that's still a mess.

The MAXIMUM (cash) fare for a trip like Blanch to town should be €2. Charging people the guts of €7 to get to and from work on the same (or worse) service there was 8 years ago is ridiculous - no wonder that the bus is seen as the alternative for those with no better option.

Well perhaps you should talk to the Government.

The bottom line is that they have shifted more of the burden of paying for public transport onto the customer - that's certainly one major element of this.

It's all well and good saying the fare should be x, but someone has to pay for it. The company has to remain solvent.

No one is being forced to pay "the guts of €7" to go anywhere in Dublin. If they are still paying cash, then frankly that's their own problem, as there are numerous cheaper alternatives available.

Can you outline exactly where all this staff wastage is?

As for replacing the buses, well if you used the buses for over 30 years, you would be aware then of how often they broke down in the 1970s and 1980s.

Since the replacement age was set at 12 years, which is pretty much the industry average by the way, the fleet reliability has improved dramatically, to the stage that when I see a bus broken down it tends to be something I'd comment upon!

Some buses are currently being retained for 16 years, as an interim measure during the recession, but are you seriously suggesting that we should go back to a point where buses are breaking down regularly again?

Wifi and RTPI are all part of the package of providing the bus service. The RTPI has in the main transformed travelling around Dublin - the level of information is substantially better than it ever was in the past. Yes it does have some issues, but making out it doesn't work the majority of the time is simply not true. Compared to having no information at all, it is a huge improvement. Wifi is useful for anyone without a bill pay phone and tourists. The next stop announcements are useful for anyone that isn't familiar with a bus route. The National Journey planner means that people can actually plan bus journeys anywhere on this island.

Schedules have been redesigned to offer clockface regular interval departures rather than being very random with no co-ordination on corridors. This does need more refinement, but people have very short memories of how disorganised it was.

But sure none of that is clearly an improvement of any form.

And anyone who suggests that Network Direct should not have happened is living in a different world. There was significant over-capacity along many corridors, routes that zig zagged in and out of estates, and a lack of any co-ordinated schedules.

Each QBC now has a direct core route that doesn't deviate from the QBC once it leaves the outer suburbs, and there has been a significant improvement in terms of route design/co-ordination from what it was.

We are now at a point where the bus service needs investing again in terms of fleet expansion and revised timetables that meet the rise in demand - hopefully this will start in 2015.

But for someone to comment critically on a service that they don't use (and have not done for a substantial period) I do find is a bit rich. Perhaps the bus is not suited to your commute in the first place - I think people need to realise that public transport cannot meet everyone's individual needs.

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

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