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Crack in outside wall - help diagnose

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  • 27-05-2014 1:55pm
    #1
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    We're thinking of buying a new house and are interested in one specific property. Upon viewing last weekend, we noticed this crack on the outside wall:

    WallCrack.jpg

    Any idea if this is something to be very worried about? I've no clue about this kind of thing, obviously the surveyor would give an insight but if it is something that is clean to those in the know, I'd appreciate their feedback! :)


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    #2
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Thats been repaired at least twice and is still cracking.
    So whatever is causing the crack (possibly subsidence) is still happening.

    I'd be asking the owners/estate agent for details about whats been done.


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    #3
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    Do you think that's a reason to stay away, or simply a reason to find out more? Can such a crack be repaired indefinitely without the place falling down? The house in the Ballinteer, Dublin and so I'd guess is a 1960s vintage, been around a good while!


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    #4
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The fact its had two "repairs" and still cracked means that its still moving, which would be some cause for concern.
    Its a bit old to be still settling!
    Depending on where in Balinteer Id say its younger, if its around Broadford its 70's+ for example.

    Best bet is to ask the owners, they repaired it (well, covered it up) ask them why.
    You dont fix the crack, you fix the problem and then cover up the crack.
    If its subsidence for example I'd be running away screaming.


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    #5
    jack of all
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭jack of all


    Is there any cracking beneath the sill on the ground floor window? Any cracks elsewhere on the facade? How has the crack been "repaired" internally, any other evidence of movement elsewhere. I'm no engineer but plenty of building experience, the repair would need to be removed to establish how serious the crack is. Anything up to 3mm or so in width would be considered a settlement crack (possibly due to soft spot in ground below foundations, no steel reinforcement used in founds in those days. Do any of the adjoining properties have similar cracking, running from sill to head, not usualto find such cracks in adjoining properties due to configuration of windows, large opes etc. Certainly merits further investigation and some answers from the agent.


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    #6
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,002 ✭✭✭mad m


    Only way to give you a definite answer is to put tell tale signs on crack and leave for at least 3 months. Cracks like that can follow the block mortar. Does it show signs of crack inside?

    Looks like a terrible repair job. Normally you root out crack 2 inches either side, fill crack with a strong mix of cement, some expanding metal over it nailed with hilti nails with washers and then a finish blending in with a damp sponge. Actually the finish on that exterior is done with a really wet mix of cement using a hand held manual winding motion tool. Can't bloody think of the name of it?

    http://www.surveyorsequipment.co.uk/shop/measuring/crack_monitoring_tell_tales/crack_monitoring_tell_tale_plus.php


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    #7
    Prenderb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Prenderb


    If you're interested in bidding on this property, I would advise engaging and paying an engineer or surveyor to give you an opinion on it. If it's something to worry about, it will be worth while because you can decide to play safe and stay away, or you can bid at a reduced price with a realistic reason for the bid. If it's nothing to worry about, you'll have that peace of mind.

    S/he can also take an overall view of the property inside and out and perhaps see something else that indicates what the crack is.


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    #8
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Could be leaking drains washing away the foundations. Very expensive to fix speaking from experience.


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    #9
    jack of all
    Registered Users Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭jack of all


    mad m wrote: »
    Only way to give you a definite answer is to put tell tale signs on crack and leave for at least 3 months. Cracks like that can follow the block mortar. Does it show signs of crack inside?

    Looks like a terrible repair job. Normally you root out crack 2 inches either side, fill crack with a strong mix of cement, some expanding metal over it nailed with hilti nails with washers and then a finish blending in with a damp sponge. Actually the finish on that exterior is done with a really wet mix of cement using a hand held manual winding motion tool. Can't bloody think of the name of it?

    http://www.surveyorsequipment.co.uk/shop/measuring/crack_monitoring_tell_tales/crack_monitoring_tell_tale_plus.php


    Good answer there, tool you're thinking of is a Tyrolean gun/ paddle, don't know if that finish is used anymore.


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    #10
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    jack of all wrote: »
    Good answer there, tool you're thinking of is a Tyrolean gun/ paddle, don't know if that finish is used anymore.

    You can still get them (or at least you could 5 years ago)

    Regarding a structural engineer etc, they wont be able to do too much investigating on someone elses house as that would need invasive work to determine the problems.
    You will end up with a "based on what we can see without damaging somone elses house, there is a crack in the wall" type report.


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    #11
    Carpenter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭Carpenter


    It could have a plate fitted (I have seen it done)


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    #12
    ionapaul
    Registered Users Posts: 5,295 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You can still get them (or at least you could 5 years ago)

    Regarding a structural engineer etc, they wont be able to do too much investigating on someone elses house as that would need invasive work to determine the problems.
    You will end up with a "based on what we can see without damaging somone elses house, there is a crack in the wall" type report.
    So basically if we were to go for a house with such a crack, we're taking a big punt on what the underlying cause(s) may be? If subsidence was the culprit, is there a ballpark on how much remedial work would cost?


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    #13
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,088 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ionapaul wrote: »
    So basically if we were to go for a house with such a crack, we're taking a big punt on what the underlying cause(s) may be? If subsidence was the culprit, is there a ballpark on how much remedial work would cost?

    Half the house might need underpinning.
    Thats into the tens of thousands not to mention the mess.


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    #14
    game4it70
    Registered Users Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭game4it70


    If the house is in broadford there are lots of them with the same type of cracks running under the sills.They mainly seem to be the big top front window.

    I've painted a few of them and none of the house owners have ever done anything about the cracks re engineers to my knowledge and just treated then as a normal settling crack.


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    #15
    Safehands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Safehands


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Half the house might need underpinning.
    Thats into the tens of thousands not to mention the mess.

    Looking at that photo, I don't really think it is serious subsidence. The crack appears to be just between the two windows. I can't really see much of the wall beneath the eaves, but what I can see does not seem to be cracked. If that is the case then it is most unlikely to be subsidence. As stated, it is probably just a badly done repair. Check the inside, if you can. See if the crack is reflected right through the wall. If it is serious, the crack will go from the roof to the ground and will be visible on the inside also. If you like the house, get an engineer's opinion. I suspect he will put your mind at ease.


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    #16
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    It's very possible this building needs to be underpinned. This can cost €10k.
    It's well worth finding out now what's going on. You could end up paying thousands less for the property.


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    #17
    Safehands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭Safehands


    tpmcompany1 wrote: »
    It's very possible this building needs to be underpinned. This can cost €10k.
    It's well worth finding out now what's going on. You could end up paying thousands less for the property.

    I doubt very much if a crack like that will lead to underpinning being necessary. Does the crack go all the way from soffit to the ground? That will tell a story. Most houses have cracks. Very few require underpinning. I agree though, get it checked out by an engineer.


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