A Gaeltacht in Dublin?

deise go deo · 27-02-2012 7:41pm #1

The Government are planing on introducing a 'Gaeltacht Bill' Later this year to give statutry effect to the 20 year strategy for the Irish Language. Under the bill, Areas outside of the traditional Gaeltacht could recieve Gaeltacht status.

Minister welcomes Government decision regarding Gaeltacht Bill

Under the legislation, it is proposed that the Gaeltacht will in future be based on linguistic criteria instead of on geographic areas which has been the position to date. Language planning at community level will be central to the new definition of the Gaeltacht. Areas outside the traditional Gaeltacht areas may be recognised as Gaeltacht areas, subject to fulfilling particular criteria.

Already people in some areas outside the Gaeltacht are thinking of benefits that gaining Gaeltacht status for their own area could bring.

Clondalkin Could be Dublins First Official Gaeltacht
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Joe MacSuibhne has been principal of the local Irish-speaking secondary school Coláiste Chillian for the past eight years and strongly supports the idea of designating Clondalkin as a Gaeltacht area.
“We have been looking for something like this for years. Currently, there are about 1,500 students receiving their education through Irish in the area and are, therefore, fluent in the language,” he told TheJournal.ie this morning.

''The benefits of being designated as a Gaeltacht area would greatly help here,” continued MacSuibhne. “I think it would help us in the promotion of the language in the school, as well as the town.”
“There are endless possibilities for the area if it is given the recognition for the number of Irish speakers here,” added MacSuibhne who has been teaching in Clondalkin for more than 20 years.
Even simple ideas around language development could create employment for students when they graduate, according to MacSuibhne

What would you make of it if someone proposed turning where you live into a Gaeltacht?

laoch na mona · 27-02-2012 8:08pm

buíochas le dia its about time new gaeltachts were created
tir gan teanga tir gan anam

Markcheese · 27-02-2012 8:18pm

As long as there's no scam to guilt trip more money out of the gov to "preserve " the language .... Although, you'd prob here more people ag caint outside Dublin Gael scoilanna that you'd hear in Ring or coolea, / ballievourney.

deise go deo · 27-02-2012 8:23pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

buíochas le dia its about time new gaeltachts were created
tir gan teanga tir gan anam

Indeed, however, I think the state should be quite stringent about the requirements for gaining Gaeltacht status. There may be a lot of Irish speakers in Dublin, but the % in a given area would still be a long way off a 'C' class Gaeltacht.

Perhaps a scale could be put in place with the national average being the base, and greater recognition the higher up you go?

deise go deo · 27-02-2012 8:26pm

Markcheese wrote: »

As long as there's no scam to guilt trip more money out of the gov to "preserve " the language .... Although, you'd prob here more people ag caint outside Dublin Gael scoilanna that you'd hear in Ring or coolea, / ballievourney.

Well to get it, you would have to convince a fairly large segment of the poplulation in a given area to speak Irish, that would be one hell of a big con, if the money is all they're after there are easier ways to get it.

laoch na mona · 27-02-2012 8:35pm

its very apt considering the g team competition and other gloir na gael projects at the moment

Iwasfrozen · 27-02-2012 8:42pm

I think it's a great idea. Really. If irish is to have any hope at all it must be moved in emphasis from the rural back waters in the west to the metropolitan areas in the east.

Pacifist Pigeon · 27-02-2012 8:57pm

But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?

deise go deo · 27-02-2012 10:54pm

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?

Well theres Clondalkin as mentioned in the artical, or Ballymun around the Irish speaking Housing Estate they will be building this year.

Outside of Dublin, Part of Galway City is already in the Gaeltacht, this could possibly be expanded.

Belfast(Not covered by the Bill obviously) already has a Gaeltacht Quarter.

Other than that, there are a few towns around the country that would be in a fiarly strong position to work twords Gaeltacht status of some sort, Carlow and Loughrae for example.

mikemac1 · 28-02-2012 1:07am

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

But where in Dublin would you put a Gaeltacht?

I used to rent in Drumcondra. It's partly flatland but also it has quite an elderly population

A few locals would often come up and greet me in Irish leaving me struggling for the cúpla focail.
Was told there are quite a few Irish speakers in the area but it's mainly the elderly locals

One of the largest gaelscoils in the country is in Ballymun and lots of young people out there, it's another option

Or you can find a townland up in the North county and link and twin it somehow with the place in Meath

Kinski · 28-02-2012 2:27am

deise go deo wrote: »

The Government are planing on introducing a 'Gaeltacht Bill' Later this year to give statutry effect to the 20 year strategy for the Irish Language. Under the bill, Areas outside of the traditional Gaeltacht could recieve Gaeltacht status.

There's a twenty year strategy? I wonder how it differs from all the other ten/twenty/fifty year strategies. Flogging a dead horse IMO...but, boy, do they flog it!

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 3:46am

Kinski wrote: »

There's a twenty year strategy? I wonder how it differs from all the other ten/twenty/fifty year strategies. Flogging a dead horse IMO...but, boy, do they flog it!

The current 20 year strategy for the Irish language is the first time there has ever been an actual strategy pulling everything together into one plan for developing the language in the state, but don't let facts stop you from posting whatever you like, god knows paper never refused ink.

Nuttzz · 28-02-2012 9:43am

Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.

spank_inferno · 28-02-2012 10:15am

Nuttzz wrote: »

Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.

True.... I think Clondalkin has approx 100k residents give or take.
Non-Irish probably outnumber Gaelic speakers considerably.

I'm pretty sure both the Poles & Chinese outnumber full time Irish speakers too.

Having said that, its a good way to bring in cash into an area.

Eliot Rosewater · 28-02-2012 10:23am

Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?

oscarBravo · 28-02-2012 11:04am

Nuttzz wrote: »

Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

This. It's the one thing that would make me fight tooth and nail against my local area becoming a Gaeltacht.

Cú Giobach · 28-02-2012 11:15am

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?

People would be more comfortable initating conversation as Gaeilge in a Gaeltacht, by virtue of there being (hopefully) a higher chance of of encountering a speaker and it not seeming so "odd", in a Gealtacht people wouldn't be as taken aback by being addressed in the language as they would in other parts of the country.

The more people speak it the more visible it becomes, and the more visible a language the more people would be willing to learn it, by knowing they will have the opportunity to use it.

If I am in a shop and the person on the till for example, says slán or go raibh maith agat to the previous customer, I will address that person in Irish when I get to the till.

28-02-2012 11:19am

People in existing gaeltachts don't seem to speak irish half the time anyway

I remember driving through one of them in particular, stopped in the shop, and the lad didn't understand 2 words of irish, nevermind speak any

I have no idea why they would want to do this, it sounds like a total artificial thing and a waste of money

''The benefits of being designated as a Gaeltacht area would greatly help here,”

What benefits??

RandomName2 · 28-02-2012 11:27am

Yay - cultural segregation for the win.

Are there still laws against English speakers buying in Gaeltacht areas, and grants handed out to those living there and claiming to speak Irish? Also, am I right in thinking that civic amenities (such as humble traffic signs) have to be bi-lingual in all parts of the country, except in Gaeltachts where they are just in Irish?

Ah... sure make Clondalkin a Gaeltacht - it will save parents having to send their children into the west in the summer (in a bid to teach them enough of the language to get through mandatory state exams in Irish).

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 12:30pm

Nuttzz wrote: »

Is it still the rule that the place names within a Gaeltacht can only be in Irish?

If so I cant see how that would work in Clondalkin when you consider the numbers of people who are from overseas that live there to.

A Rose by any other name?

I don't see why it would cause a problem if it was well flaged in advance.

Kinski · 28-02-2012 12:34pm

deise go deo wrote: »

The current 20 year strategy for the Irish language is the first time there has ever been an actual strategy pulling everything together into one plan for developing the language in the state, but don't let facts stop you from posting whatever you like, god knows paper never refused ink.

Look, over the years they've introduced it as a compulsory subject in schools, required candidates for the civil service to demonstrate fluency in it, encouraged the development of gaeltachts, established radio and television stations devoted to it...the list goes on. None of it has worked. This plan will be an abject failure too (assuming that the "plan" is to restore Irish as a language spoken by large numbers of people on an everyday basis.)

I mean, they're talking about designating Clondalkin as a gaeltacht area - that doesn't sound a bit silly to you?

c_man · 28-02-2012 12:53pm

deise go deo wrote: »

Outside of Dublin, Part of Galway City is already in the Gaeltacht, this could possibly be expanded.

Lol, maybe they should start by actually evaluating how many Irish is actually spoken there.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 12:56pm

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Why will this make a difference to the language? That is, why will being granted Gaeltacht status somehow make it more worthwhile for people to learn Irish?

I think that if an area is to be granted Gaeltacht status, the local population would have to be consulted and be in favour of it. If they are then the people working to make it happen will find it much easier to organise events by virtue of the fact that those in the local community will be aware of who they are, what they want, and will know that what they want is what the majority of the people in the area want.

It would provide a much needed focus to promoting the language, as mentioned earlier, have a look at the G team on TG4, people who would otherwise have had no involvement with the language came out to support it as a community project to win a competition, I would expect the same attitude to come out in some areas interested in achieving gaeltacht status for their area.

As for the benefits of Gaeltacht status when it is achieved, well for it to be achieved a massive amount of work would already have had to be put in, and an Iris speaking community would have to exist in the area, it would also mean that the area would be able to receive supports to develop the language in the area such as a local language development officer to help organise events and services.
Also, research carried out be a group in Galway City called Gaillimh le Gaeilge has found that business are much more likely to get involved if the language has official status, they were doing a study into the possibility of gaining bilingual status for Galway city, several large business in the local area said that they would get involved with the plan if it was an official policy within the city as they felt that 'belonging' to the local area important to their marketing strategy.
i.e., if the majority of people in the area said they wanted gaeltacht status, and there was a strong movement in the area to achieve it, the local Tesco’s are much more likely to get involved and hire staff who can speak Irish, put up bilingual signage in store etc. to make it seem like they are taking an active part in the community.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 1:06pm

Kinski wrote: »

Look, over the years they've introduced it as a compulsory subject in schools, required candidates for the civil service to demonstrate fluency in it, encouraged the development of gaeltachts, established radio and television stations devoted to it...the list goes on. None of it has worked. This plan will be an abject failure too (assuming that the "plan" is to restore Irish as a language spoken by large numbers of people on an everyday basis.)

I mean, they're talking about designating Clondalkin as a gaeltacht area - that doesn't sound a bit silly to you?

Yep, they have done many things, never in a joined up way though, as for the Raidio and TV Station, RnaG started out as pirate raidio because there was nothing available in Irish, the TV station came off the back of a campaighn of protests against the government which saw people climbing the RTÉ mast in Dublin, and people going to jail to highlight the lack of anything in Irish on telly. Hardly as a result of the government being proactive.

The thing is, they are not talking about making anywhere a Gaeltacht, just setting down the criteria an area would have to meet if it wanted to gain gaeltacht status, wether or not Clondalkin gains gaeltacht status will be up to the people living there. Its been suggested that Clondalkin might become a Gaeltacht because of the large number of Irish speakers in the area and the infastructure already in place to support the development of the language such as Gaelscoils and Áras Chrónáin, an Irish Language center in the area.
Nowhere will just be made a Gaeltacht area.

oscarBravo · 28-02-2012 1:06pm

deise go deo wrote: »

I don't see why it would cause a problem if it was well flaged in advance.

It's a problem because, unless you know that it's called "An Fhairche" in Irish, you can't get to Clonbur by following road signs.

I'm not sure what's achieved by pretending that it's not called Clonbur by English speakers.

junder · 28-02-2012 1:08pm

There is no irish only langauge quarter in Belfast

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 1:11pm

junder wrote: »

There is no irish only langauge quarter in Belfast

No, but there is a Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast. See

RichardAnd · 28-02-2012 1:23pm

A gaeltacht in Dublin would be a non starter in my opinion. If one existed in the city, hundreds of people would pass through it each day of which probably only a tiny fraction would speak Irish. Are these people going to carry out business in that area in Irish, of course not. On top of that, what would non-irish persons (and many irish people) make of the road and street signs suddenly changing to a language they can't read?

deise go deo, I've read a few of your posts about IRish and you seem like a person very much in love with the language. That's great and I commend anyone taking such an interest in a constructive topic but, like many that laud the Irish language, you also seem to believe that everyone else should learn it too. I have a passionate interest in Baroque music and early modern English but in no way do I expect that the subjects should be compulsory learning material or that the state should otherwise attempt to goad people into studying them.

The state has been pushing the study of the Irish language at people for decades yet now, I'd wager that there are more fluent speakers of European tongues than of Irish to be had here. Irish is of interest historically and academically but otherwise, it is a language very few will ever become fluent in.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 1:25pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's a problem because, unless you know that it's called "An Fhairche" in Irish, you can't get to Clonbur by following road signs.

I'm not sure what's achieved by pretending that it's not called Clonbur by English speakers.

Unless you know its called Clonbur you can't get to it following roadsigns either, for somone not from Dublin they are as likely not to have heard of Clonbur before finding they have a reason to go there as 'An Fhairche'.

For someone from Dublin, they will proably know where it is, and if they don't they will, given it was well flagged in advance, have heard of the name change.

Honnestly, it is really a nothing issue as far as I can see, it might cause a minor inconvienence for a while, after that it would make no difference as people would just get used to the name change. Certainly I can not see why it would cause someone to fight tooth and nail against something, that seams like a massive overreaction to me.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 1:39pm

c_man wrote: »

Lol, maybe they should start by actually evaluating how many Irish is actually spoken there.

They will be, Current Gaeltacht areas that don't meet the criteria needed to have Gaeltacht Status will be given 2 years to meet the requirements, if they don't, they lose gaeltacht status.

kfdb · 28-02-2012 2:36pm

How will the local people of Clondalkin be consulted on this? Is there a suggestion of a local plebiscite?

Presumably, only open to those that live in the to-be-designated area and subject to a some kind of quorum? And will it be a kind of one-vote one-time question?

I wonder how a multinational company might feel about having signs to their facility in Irish only. As a total aside, I wonder if our political masters might pause for thought about the idea of such direct democracy - could be hijacked by the usual suspects to vote on Bank Bailouts, Septic Tanks and whatever else Joe Duffy commands

K

oscarBravo · 28-02-2012 3:16pm

deise go deo wrote: »

Unless you know its called Clonbur you can't get to it following roadsigns either, for somone not from Dublin they are as likely not to have heard of Clonbur before finding they have a reason to go there as 'An Fhairche'.

I don't have any reason to go to An Fhairche. I regularly have reason to go to Clonbur. The reason I go to Clonbur is because I do business with people who live in Clonbur, who call the place they live Clonbur, and who write Clonbur as their address.

The only people who don't seem to understand that Clonbur is called Clonbur are the people who have removed the name Clonbur from every signpost pointing towards Clonbur.

Honnestly, it is really a nothing issue as far as I can see, it might cause a minor inconvienence for a while, after that it would make no difference as people would just get used to the name change. Certainly I can not see why it would cause someone to fight tooth and nail against something, that seams like a massive overreaction to me.

My Danish girlfriend can't pronouce "An Fhairche", or "Béal an Muirthead", or "Gob an Choire". She can pronounce "Clonbur", "Belmullet" and "Achill Sound".

This is equally true of thousands of tourists and other visitors. Allergan, who recently announced an expansion of 600 jobs in Westport, are unlikely to welcome a move that would change their business address to "Cathair na Mart" and require having to spell that out on every single phone call to a non-Irish speaker.

The problem is with the pretence that places in Gaeltacht areas don't have English language names. I wouldn't say "Tá mé i mo chónaí i Westport" in an Irish conversation, and I don't see why I should say "I live in Cathair na Mart" in English. In practice, the English language name will be preserved in perpetuity - cf. Dingle - so removing it from signposts is stupid and irrational.

c_man · 28-02-2012 5:53pm

deise go deo wrote: »

They will be, Current Gaeltacht areas that don't meet the criteria needed to have Gaeltacht Status will be given 2 years to meet the requirements, if they don't, they lose gaeltacht status.

Glad to hear it. It's laughable when you know some of the areas that have that tag.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 7:32pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't have any reason to go to An Fhairche. I regularly have reason to go to Clonbur. The reason I go to Clonbur is because I do business with people who live in Clonbur, who call the place they live Clonbur, and who write Clonbur as their address.

The only people who don't seem to understand that Clonbur is called Clonbur are the people who have removed the name Clonbur from every signpost pointing towards Clonbur. My Danish girlfriend can't pronouce "An Fhairche", or "Béal an Muirthead", or "Gob an Choire". She can pronounce "Clonbur", "Belmullet" and "Achill Sound".

And how about if the people of Clonbur decided that they wanted Clonbur to be a Gaeltacht, under the proposed legislation it would be up to them after all.
As for your Girlfriend, If she can speak two languages, I seriously doubt she will be stumped by Béal an Muirthead for long if she found herself needing to learn it because the locals decided to look for gaeltacht status.

Nuttzz · 28-02-2012 8:34pm

deise go deo wrote: »

A Rose by any other name?

I don't see why it would cause a problem if it was well flaged in advance.

I cant see myself or the vast majority of people starting to call it anything other than Clondalkin regardless of its designation, just like I always called Dingle, Dingle and never An Dingles or what ever it was

eitlean · 28-02-2012 8:54pm

I think it's great to hear! I don't live in Clondalkin but I live near and to think that the distant Gaeltacht 'd be just up the road is fantastic. Irish wouldn't be so alien and 'out of the ownership' of those in the big smoke.

I joined up to Bernard Dunne's campaign too.

I don't know why those that are anti-Irish are so afraid. Ireland will never become anything less than bilingual, in that English and Irish will co-exist.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-02-2012 11:41pm

kfdb wrote: »

How will the local people of Clondalkin be consulted on this?

We won't be. One of either of two things will happen

- This idea will slowly die

- It will be voted in by SDCC and imposed on the people.

Is there a suggestion of a local plebiscite?

At what cost? You'd think we would have greater priorities in the context of IMF bailout and massive budget deficits, than holding plebiscites on taking English off signs in Dublin..

Focalbhach · 28-02-2012 11:49pm

deise go deo wrote: »

And how about if the people of Clonbur decided that they wanted Clonbur to be a Gaeltacht, under the proposed legislation it would be up to them after all.
As for your Girlfriend, If she can speak two languages, I seriously doubt she will be stumped by Béal an Muirthead for long if she found herself needing to learn it because the locals decided to look for gaeltacht status.

I can't see the problem with retaining both English and Irish placenames on signs in any newly-designated gaeltachts. Insisting stoutly on Irish-only names achieves nothing much that I can see, and (judging by the way this thread is going) has the potential to detract hugely, and needlessly, from what could be a fairly positive development. Bear in mind that we're talking about currently English-speaking/bilingual areas. Compromise is the name of the game.

oscarBravo · 28-02-2012 11:54pm

deise go deo wrote: »

And how about if the people of Clonbur decided that they wanted Clonbur to be a Gaeltacht, under the proposed legislation it would be up to them after all.

I have no problem with anywhere being a Gaeltacht. I have a problem with people deluding themselves that places don't have English placenames, and trying to force that delusion on non-Irish speakers by removing the English placenames from signposts.

As for your Girlfriend, If she can speak two languages, I seriously doubt she will be stumped by Béal an Muirthead for long if she found herself needing to learn it because the locals decided to look for gaeltacht status.

Belmullet has Gaeltacht status, and I rarely hear it referred to as anything other than Belmullet by anybody living around here, including anyone I've ever spoken to who lives in Belmullet. The only indication that Belmullet isn't called Belmullet is the fact that someone has spent money on changing signposts.

My girlfriend - who speaks perfectly fluent Danish and English, pretty fluent German and a little Spanish and French - doesn't feel the need to join in the collective delusion. Mind you, even her mother says "Copenhagen" instead of "Købnhavn" when she's talking English - the practical recognition that it makes sense to use the English name for a place when speaking English is quite refreshing.

kfdb · 29-02-2012 3:16am

Focalbhach wrote: »

I can't see the problem with retaining both English and Irish placenames on signs in any newly-designated gaeltachts. Insisting stoutly on Irish-only names achieves nothing much that I can see, and (judging by the way this thread is going) has the potential to detract hugely, and needlessly, from what could be a fairly positive development. Bear in mind that we're talking about currently English-speaking/bilingual areas. Compromise is the name of the game.

Unfortunately, the rules are rules. If Dingle cannot be Dingle and Daingean Ui Cuis then why would newly designated areas be any different?

Cú Giobach · 29-02-2012 9:03am

kfdb wrote: »

Unfortunately, the rules are rules. If Dingle cannot be Dingle and Daingean Ui Cuis then why would newly designated areas be any different?

These rules are not fundamental laws of nature and can be changed, as many rules are as times and circumstances change.
Having a Gealtacht in Dublin is a very different "circumstance", by it being a major urban area, and somewhere Irish has not been prominent for quite a while.

Anyway, in a truly bilingual society signs should be in both languages, with prominence being decided by whether it's in a Geal/Galltacht.

If this is the biggest issue surrounding the topic, then nice one, it wouldn't exactly be an insurmountable one.

Wibbs · 29-02-2012 10:27am

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's a problem because, unless you know that it's called "An Fhairche" in Irish, you can't get to Clonbur by following road signs.

I'm not sure what's achieved by pretending that it's not called Clonbur by English speakers.

+1 Well remember the utter farce that was "An Daingain"? Shows the level of delusional guff from some quarters.

deise go deo wrote: »

Unless you know its called Clonbur you can't get to it following roadsigns either, for somone not from Dublin they are as likely not to have heard of Clonbur before finding they have a reason to go there as 'An Fhairche'.

For someone from Dublin, they will proably know where it is, and if they don't they will, given it was well flagged in advance, have heard of the name change.

Honnestly, it is really a nothing issue as far as I can see, it might cause a minor inconvienence for a while, after that it would make no difference as people would just get used to the name change. Certainly I can not see why it would cause someone to fight tooth and nail against something, that seams like a massive overreaction to me.

This is the kind of thinking we're talking about. It's not An Fhairche it's Clonbur. That's what it's called. Any other name is a fancy and a fiction and an imposed one at that.

kfdb wrote: »

How will the local people of Clondalkin be consulted on this? Is there a suggestion of a local plebiscite?

Well you may recall the Dingle "debate" where after some tooing and froing a plebiscite was duly called. Said plebiscite voted overwhelmingly in favour of keeping Dingle(IIRC there was only 10 odd nays out of 1000). And what happened? The minister O'Cuiv simply ignored them and any simple logic and instead threatened them with removing grants. Yep democracy at work, but dont let that get in the way if you're a cultural obsessive. Now this is a town/place world bloody famous and still these gombeens ignored good sense in pursuit of their imposed ideas of culture. They'd do similar in the urban areas given half the chance.

goose2005 · 01-03-2012 11:17pm

Wibbs wrote: »

This is the kind of thinking we're talking about. It's not An Fhairche it's Clonbur. That's what it's called. Any other name is a fancy and a fiction and an imposed one at that.

The same goes for 'planter' towns - Prosperous was always Prosperous from its foundation, so someone just stuck the nearest Irish townland name onto it to get Corrchoill - same for Bagenalstown (Muine Bheag)

bluewolf wrote: »

What benefits??

Lots of easy grant money.

Permabear · 02-03-2012 12:44am

This post has been deleted.

BlaasForRafa · 02-03-2012 2:28am

deise go deo wrote: »

They will be, Current Gaeltacht areas that don't meet the criteria needed to have Gaeltacht Status will be given 2 years to meet the requirements, if they don't, they lose gaeltacht status.

There should be no Gaeltacht areas at all, the language should live or die on its merits without any state support. All state funding should be withdrawn from Udaras as well.

Cardinal Richelieu · 02-03-2012 5:13pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

I used to rent in Drumcondra. It's partly flatland but also it has quite an elderly population

A few locals would often come up and greet me in Irish leaving me struggling for the cúpla focail.
Was told there are quite a few Irish speakers in the area but it's mainly the elderly locals

One of the largest gaelscoils in the country is in Ballymun and lots of young people out there, it's another option

Or you can find a townland up in the North county and link and twin it somehow with the place in Meath

Remember hearing from people I know who lived near the Meath Gaeltacht when it was created talking about the huge gulf that opened between them and the newcomers from the West. Is this scheme expecting to buy land and provide free housing to people who can speak Irish and move out the existing residents in that area that can't speak Irish and whose ancestors haven't spoke Irish for 400 years?

Permabear · 02-03-2012 7:49pm

This post has been deleted.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-03-2012 9:17pm

I hope (but probably in vain) that the school wasn't involved in organising that protest.

It would be pretty despicable for teachers to take advantage of kids to make a political protest. The real aim of that protest wasn't for the benefit of the kids involved but to ensure that there would not be a surplus of Irish teacher posts created.

RandomName2 · 02-03-2012 10:29pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Wow. Totally hits the nail on the head.

I feel obliged to play devil's advocate however and mention cultural identity; but I will temper that message insofar that I don't think that concepts concerning national identity (and the word 'concept' is key, as otherwise there wouldn't be any need for state interference) should take undue precedence. Imagine having regions where all beer was banned (or heavily taxed) as it wasn't Irish enough? Areas where football and rugby were not allowed play (some may indeed remember this!) ? Having the apparatus of the state geared towards the maintenance of a folly for the sake of a token nationalist gesture, as opposed to merely facilitating its existence if circumstances merit its survival? To a certain extent I can't help but wonder when it is, as a nation, we are going to grow up.

Permabear · 03-03-2012 12:55am

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Kinski · 03-03-2012 1:16am

Permabear wrote: »

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Hmm, cartoon hearts, incomprehensible text, and doe-eyed schoolgirls with their mouths taped shut...I can't tell if this is part of a campaign about the status of the Irish language in schools, or a promotional poster for a Japanese exploitation movie.

A Gaeltacht in Dublin?

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