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Took a rad off and now nothing works!

  • 16-03-2014 11:33am
    #1
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭


    We are getting some renovations done on our house. Last year we replaced the entire heating system and the boiler was replaced with a warmflow utility 90.

    Last week the builders took off the rad in the kitchen to move it and when they put it back on the rads downstairs stopped heating up.

    Their plumber has been out twice to try balancing and bleeding the system (I think) but to no avail. Downstairs would only heat when upstairs rads were totally closed but now it won't even do that!

    I tried to check the pressure and it seems ok but I've no clue what to try next and the plumber seems equally clueless..


Comments

  • #2
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Sounds like a circulating pump issue to me. But hard to say not being there.
    Also motorised valves stuck, balancing valve on the cylinder and malfunctioning room stats would also be on the list.
    When the new system was put in, did they say that a new circulating pump fitted?


  • #3
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    We are getting some renovations done on our house. Last year we replaced the entire heating system and the boiler was replaced with a warmflow utility 90.

    Last week the builders took off the rad in the kitchen to move it and when they put it back on the rads downstairs stopped heating up.

    Their plumber has been out twice to try balancing and bleeding the system (I think) but to no avail. Downstairs would only heat when upstairs rads were totally closed but now it won't even do that!

    I tried to check the pressure and it seems ok but I've no clue what to try next and the plumber seems equally clueless..

    Replace plumber.


  • #4
    greasepalm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    i presume the system is primed as in water on ,system off go round each rad in turn and vent as it sounds as air is in system,system would have been drained for rad removal.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Bleed-a-Radiator


  • #5
    alancar89
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭alancar89


    Sounds like a zone valve not opening fully. If you have a zone valve for downstairs try put it into manual by moving the slider on side until it locks open.


  • #6
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I tried to check the pressure and it seems ok.

    How have you deduced this?


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  • #7
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Iv been caught a few times with weak pumps after draining a system


  • #8
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Iv been caught a few times with weak pumps after draining a system

    But at least you and any good plumber can fault find.
    OP / Orlaanne says her plumber is clueless. Hence my recommendation to :
    Replace plumber.


  • #9
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Iv been caught a few times with weak pumps after draining a system
    Why does draining the system show up a weak pump?


  • #10
    Cerco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Cerco


    I would guess it is the refilling that shows up the weakness.:confused:


  • #11
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    murphaph wrote: »
    Why does draining the system show up a weak pump?

    Cant push the air round the system to the rads.

    Op how old is the pump and what brand.


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  • #12
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    WikiHow wrote: »
    How have you deduced this?

    I actually think now I might have been wrong here, if red needle and black needle are not aligned that means loss of pressure right?

    Thanks for amazing suggestion Scudo, can't believe I never thought of that... Plumber is subcontracted by builder and I think he knows at this stage he needs to get someone else. I'm not shelling out for it.


  • #13
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Iv been caught a few times with weak pumps after draining a system

    It's not the pump. New boiler was fitted less than a year ago. I tested it out by turning on and off rads in usual configuration we would have to test theory that pump was never strong enough, still not heating downstairs.


  • #14
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I actually think now I might have been wrong here, if red needle and black needle are not aligned that means loss of pressure right?

    Thanks for amazing suggestion Scudo, can't believe I never thought of that... Plumber is subcontracted by builder and I think he knows at this stage he needs to get someone else. I'm not shelling out for it.
    I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but it's quite hard to fix heating systems by text to householder/non plumber and not give wrong information that could end up been a lot more dangerous.
    Most plumber here each proberly have over 20 years experience,and so a good plumber in your house should easley find and fix your problem.

    My safety advice was to get another plumber, you said the one you had was clueless.

    Also see it from our side please.we don't want to cause more of a problem but we genuinely do try to help.


  • #15
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    scudo2 wrote: »
    I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, but it's quite hard to fix heating systems by text to householder/non plumber and not give wrong information that could end up been a lot more dangerous.
    Most plumber here each proberly have over 20 years experience,and so a good plumber in your house should easley find and fix your problem.

    My safety advice was to get another plumber, you said the one you had was clueless.

    Also see it from our side please.we don't want to cause more of a problem but we genuinely do try to help.

    Why didn't you say that then instead of "replace plumber"? It definitely came off sarcastic. I might not be a plumber but I would at least like to understand what's going on.


  • #16
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    Why didn't you say that then instead of "replace plumber"? It definitely came off sarcastic. I might not be a plumber but I would at least like to understand what's going on.

    Sorry you picked it up wrong.

    At the time I hadn't the time for a long explanation, so " replace plumber " was the obvious safe answer which also got 6 other agree/thank votes.


  • #17
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Sorry you picked it up wrong.

    At the time I hadn't the time for a long explanation, so " replace plumber " was the obvious safe answer which also got 6 other agree/thank votes.

    I'm not stupid, it's an obvious step but it's a bank holiday weekend so I thought I would try find out more if I could.

    Never mind. Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions.


  • #18
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I'm not stupid, it's an obvious step but it's a bank holiday weekend so I thought I would try find out more if I could.

    Never mind. Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions.
    Is upstairs and hot water working ok ?
    You mentioned downstairs not working.


  • #19
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    orlaanne wrote: »
    Why didn't you say that then instead of "replace plumber"? It definitely came off sarcastic. I might not be a plumber but I would at least like to understand what's going on.

    You obviously dont frequent the P&H forum too often, you got given a reply, you jumped to presume, move on. :P (sarcastic smiley) :rolleyes:


  • #20
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I'm not stupid, it's an obvious step but it's a bank holiday weekend so I thought I would try find out more if I could.

    Never mind. Thanks to everyone else for their suggestions.
    :rolleyes:


  • #21
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I actually think now I might have been wrong here, if red needle and black needle are not aligned that means loss of pressure right?

    It would appear you have a sealed system, yes the two should be aligned when cold, did you try topping up the system?


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  • #22
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It would appear you have a sealed system, yes the two should be aligned when cold, did you try topping up the system?

    I'll try that, thank you.


  • #23
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    WikiHow wrote: »
    It would appear you have a sealed system, yes the two should be aligned when cold, did you try topping up the system?

    How do you know what the red indicator is pointing at?
    It could be pointing at 3 Bar and you have advised the O.P. to align the two pointers when increasing the pressure!

    @ O.P.
    The pressure on your boiler should be approx 1.25 bar when cold. Ignore the red pointer.


  • #24
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    How do you know what the red indicator is pointing at?

    I dont, good point. One would imagine it would be set by plumber originally, we dont know its set at 3 bar either.


  • #25
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    orlaanne wrote: »
    It's not the pump. New boiler was fitted less than a year ago. I tested it out by turning on and off rads in usual configuration we would have to test theory that pump was never strong enough, still not heating downstairs.

    What make / model boiler has been fitted?
    Just because a pump was new a year
    ago, does not mean its still working properly.
    I have had new pumps fail within hours of installation.


  • #26
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    WikiHow wrote: »
    I dont, good point. One would imagine it would be set by plumber originally, we dont know its set at 3 bar either.

    Impersise information and advice can be dangerous.

    We don't imagine or take anything for granted on P&H when we give advice.

    Boilers are to dangerous and the chances of a serious accident/injury/death, is to high to take chances.


  • #27
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    scudo2 wrote: »
    Impersise information and advice can be dangerous.

    I completely agree with you, i was doing my best to help the OP.
    We don't imagine or take anything for granted on P&H when we give advice.

    We seem to have overlooked the possibility that the gauge may be faulty and not be showing the true reading
    Boilers are to dangerous and the chances of a serious accident/injury/death, is to high to take chances.

    + 1


  • #28
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Current plumber has been give one last chance for tomorrow and then I'm getting my own person in. Any recommendations via pm for someone in Dublin 15 much appreciated.


  • #29
    scudo2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭scudo2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    I think I'll just leave well enough alone. Current plumber has been give one last chance for tomorrow and then I'm getting my own person in. Any recommendations via pm for someone in Dublin 15 much appreciated.
    If you can.
    Please let us know how you got on.
    Thanks.


  • #30
    greasepalm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    i just checked my gauge fitted beside immersion my red dial is set at 1 3/4 bar and the black is low 0.5,i also got a gauge above boiler reading 1.as i get a weep in system it gets topped up.


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  • #31
    alancar89
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭alancar89


    OP any updates??


  • #32
    orlaanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭orlaanne


    Finally works again, they just had to balance the rads. I'm fairly pissed off that wasn't tried earlier but just relieved to have it working again.


  • #33
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    orlaanne wrote: »
    Finally works again, they just had to balance the rads. I'm fairly pissed off that wasn't tried earlier but just relieved to have it working again.
    Would unbalanced rads cause all your downstairs rads not to heat...at all...at all?


  • #34
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    orlaanne wrote: »
    Finally works again, they just had to balance the rads. I'm fairly pissed off that wasn't tried earlier but just relieved to have it working again.
    orlaanne wrote: »
    Their plumber has been out twice to try balancing and bleeding the system (I think):rolleyes: but to no avail. Downstairs would only heat when upstairs rads were totally closed but now it won't even do that!

    Perhaps now you can see how difficult it can be for us to help you when you give out misleading infomation yet you expect us to diagnose your problems.
    It would seem to me that the simple reply you got on post 3 hit the nail on the head.

    @ timmy4u2,

    Yes, heat finds it easy to rise, thus you can have heating upstairs working when pump is knackered.


  • #35
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    Perhaps now you can see how difficult it can be for us to help you when you give out misleading infomation yet you expect us to diagnose your problems.
    It would seem to me that the simple reply you got on post 3 hit the nail on the head.

    @ timmy4u2,

    Yes, heat finds it easy to rise, thus you can have heating upstairs working when pump is knackered.
    Yes but the OP does not say that the pump was knackered


  • #36
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    timmy4u2 wrote: »
    Yes but the OP does not say that the pump was knackered

    Correct, and niether did i. it was just a simple example to your question of how hot water can flow up pipework without a pump to push it, hot water rises, simples.


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  • #37
    timmy4u2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭timmy4u2


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    Correct, and niether did i. it was an example to your question of how hot water can flow up pipework without a pump to push it, hot water rises, simples.
    Ok, I thought I had missed something


  • #38
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    Billy Bunting wrote: »
    hot water rises, simples.

    Where's shane0007 when you need him!
    Sheesh, typical.... :-)


  • #39
    Billy Bunting
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    shane 007 wrote: »
    Where's shane0007 when you need him!
    Sheesh, typical.... :-)

    Ah! Bring back the book ;)

    Alas i think you'll be going off tipic, perhaps a link to your thesis on the subject :D


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