Wives who have a secret bank account?

py2006 · 20-12-2011 1:28pm #1

Interesting article in the Daily Mail (I know, I know).

Basically, it is about married women who have a separate bank account that they keep a secret from their husband. Either its for buying themselves 'treats' or something to fall on if/when they divorce.

What are your thoughts on this? Joint accounts can be a bit dodgy if you ask me unless they are specifically for bills and both partner has their own separate account. But a secret one?

Surely, if a divorce was to happen there would have to be full disclosure?

Anyway, an interesting comment posted on the article below:

"I've been hoarding my husbands money away in a secret account for fifteen years. There is enough in the account to pay the mortgage off. I won't be paying the mortgage of with it though. When the time is right I plan to divorce my husband. I will continue to live in the house with our child whilst he continues paying the mortgage even though he won't be living there. The law is stacked in our favour ladies. It doesn't have to be a mans world so why let it?"

seamus · 20-12-2011 2:02pm

Used to be quite common back in the good old days, or so I hear. "Running away money" it was known as. Particularly seeing as it was illegal or impossible for a married woman to work, they would hold onto a small amount of money each week in the event that they would have to leave their husband due to infidelity or violence or whatever.

For women who were naturally independent, I imagine it was tough having to give all control to their husbands. So having this "in case of emergency" nest egg let them feel like they had some control back.

My mother-in-law (who's never worked) admitted to having one of these funds and still having it as late as the 1990's.

In a modern context though, it's just completely wrong, unless the woman is subject to domestic abuse or such.
The litmus test typically is whether it would be OK for a man to have a secret savings account that he used to pay for pints with the lads, tickets to football games and pointless gadgets. Of course it wouldn't. He'd be accused of being a selfish pig and the woman would be advised to divorce him and take all his money.
Shoe on the other foot though, woman with a secret savings account and spending it on pointless trinkets, and she's in the Daily Mail saying, "Ah shure twas only a bit of harmless fun, I guess I'll have to come clean now. Oh well, teehee".

I would be skeptical of the comments. While I don't doubt that there are some vindictive bitches out there who do things like the comment you quote, I suspect it's far more likely to be a troll, it just ticks too many outrage boxes

Giselle · 20-12-2011 2:57pm

seamus wrote: »

The litmus test typically is whether it would be OK for a man to have a secret savings account that he used to pay for pints with the lads, tickets to football games and pointless gadgets. Of course it wouldn't. He'd be accused of being a selfish pig and the woman would be advised to divorce him and take all his money.

I don't think a man with a fun money account is a selfish pig, why would I?

If money permits, I think both partners should have independent accounts where they can save or spend whatever can be spared from the working capital on whatever they want, without explaining to each other.

As long as any spare cash is shared out equally I think its actually pretty healthy.

nicowa · 20-12-2011 3:22pm

Giselle wrote: »

I don't think a man with a fun money account is a selfish pig, why would I?

If money permits, I think both partners should have independent accounts where they can save or spend whatever can be spared from the working capital on whatever they want, without explaining to each other.

As long as any spare cash is shared out equally I think its actually pretty healthy.

I think most would agree with that, but it's the idea of a "secret" account that puts everyone on edge. And the comment quoted, from the woman who is squirrling away her husbands money until she decides to divorce him, is really terrifying and shows just how wrong and skewed the law is towards women in divorce situations.

Sauve · 20-12-2011 3:34pm

Having ones' own money is healthy, and something I would be bigtime in favour of.
It's the idea of it being a 'secret' that I would have a problem with.
A secret of any kind in a marriage sets off alarm bells really...

um7y1h83ge06nx · 20-12-2011 3:36pm

nicowa wrote: »

I think most would agree with that, but it's the idea of a "secret" account that puts everyone on edge. And the comment quoted, from the woman who is squirrling away her husbands money until she decides to divorce him, is really terrifying and shows just how wrong and skewed the law is towards women in divorce situations.

Yeah, that's some quote alright, talk about shoving the knife in.

quad_red · 20-12-2011 3:38pm

I call bullsh*t on that comment.

Sounds like a troll. And, it's on the Daily Mail website.

maximoose · 20-12-2011 3:39pm

I'm sure it's not only the women in marriages who are doing it regularly... recently found out an uncle of mine had kept secret from his wife the fact that he inherited 2 farmhouses, quite a few acres of land a few years ago and also kept quiet about 45k he had stashed away in savings!

People are sneaky :pac:

20-12-2011 3:41pm

i wouldn't be into keeping secrets, but i'd kind of take it as a given that we'd have a joint account for joint expenses and separate accounts for ourselves

professore · 20-12-2011 3:42pm

Giselle wrote: »

I don't think a man with a fun money account is a selfish pig, why would I?

If money permits, I think both partners should have independent accounts where they can save or spend whatever can be spared from the working capital on whatever they want, without explaining to each other.

As long as any spare cash is shared out equally I think its actually pretty healthy.

That's grand as long as there are no kids involved. You'll have no spare cash anyway but even if you did, how can you manage it? "Dad I need money for school" "Well son, have your business plan on my desk tomorrow morning and I'll see what I can do"

Sauve · 20-12-2011 3:44pm

bluewolf wrote: »

i wouldn't be into keeping secrets, but i'd kind of take it as a given that we'd have a joint account for joint expenses and separate accounts for ourselves

Yeah but it's the secrecy that's the issue. Say if you had a second personal account that you hid from him...

20-12-2011 3:45pm

Sauvignon82 wrote: »

Yeah but it's the secrecy that's the issue. Say if you had a second personal account that you hid from him...

that's what i meant, i wouldn't like the secret version of it

seamus · 20-12-2011 4:14pm

Giselle wrote: »

I don't think a man with a fun money account is a selfish pig, why would I?

Secret being the important word there, as in hiding money from his wife/partner to spend on himself.

If money permits, I think both partners should have independent accounts where they can save or spend whatever can be spared from the working capital on whatever they want, without explaining to each other.

As long as any spare cash is shared out equally I think its actually pretty healthy.

Myself and my wife operate separate accounts purely because we haven't gotten around to setting up a joint one yet (2 years later).

I think there's something to be said for both scenarios. What we find annoying is the need to transfer money between accounts in order to pay bills - e.g. she transfers half of the mortgage into my account every month. It gets annoying - every time a bill comes in, I have to ask her to give me half of it. If she does a big shop, she has to ask me for half it. A joint account would solve this obviously.

But then a joint account at the very least creates some need to account to the other half - "I took out €200 to buy something for my car." "Well did you really need it?". At least with separate accounts there's no requirement for either party to justify their spending, once the bills are being paid.

I think it's hard to have a best of both worlds;
You can have a single account where both parties transfer in what's needed for bills, but that still requires transfers and for either party to ask for money cos, "I did the shopping today".
You can have a single account where all income goes and then the spare cash is split at the end of the month (or whatever), but that too is troublesome - what happens when the account is short at the end of one month and neither party has anything spare in their other account? If it's a "fun money" account you might be inclined to spend it on the basis that the bills are paid.

I guess I suppose it depends on what both parties are happy with.

amacachi · 20-12-2011 4:27pm

Once the husband gets half of what's in it in the divorce then it's fine. :pac:

It's the secret bit that's the problem, wouldn't care other than that.

ToxicPaddy · 20-12-2011 5:22pm

A guy I know basically hands over his wages at the end of a month and his wife gives him and allowance each week as he is completely and utterly useless with money (his words not mine

) and she controls the bank accounts and the purse strings..

It works very well though and at the end of the month she is the one paying the bills, buying the groceries and looking after the everyday financial needs of the family.

I have to admit she is very good at it as they seem to have a very nice house, 2 nice cars in the driveway and a few family holidays a year. Nothing too extravagant or crazy but they are very comfortable and he openly admits all of this is down to his wife.

As for the secret accounts, if a person has to feel they need one then something is wrong from day one in the relationship.

I think a joint account for bills and mortgage payments, for savings for holidays etc is the way to go and then whatever is left is yours to spend as you please.

py2006 · 20-12-2011 5:47pm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

A guy I know basically hands over his wages at the end of a month and his wife gives him and allowance each week as he is completely and utterly useless with money (his words not mine ) and she controls the bank accounts and the purse strings..

It works very well though and at the end of the month she is the one paying the bills, buying the groceries and looking after the everyday financial needs of the family.

I have to admit she is very good at it as they seem to have a very nice house, 2 nice cars in the driveway and a few family holidays a year. Nothing too extravagant or crazy but they are very comfortable and he openly admits all of this is down to his wife.

As for the secret accounts, if a person has to feel they need one then something is wrong from day one in the relationship.

I think a joint account for bills and mortgage payments, for savings for holidays etc is the way to go and then whatever is left is yours to spend as you please.

That I would NEVER do!

ToxicPaddy · 20-12-2011 6:07pm

py2006 wrote: »

That I would NEVER do!

why not? If he is useless with money.. its the sensible thing to do as he has a family to support

Sonics2k · 20-12-2011 6:32pm

py2006 wrote: »

That I would NEVER do!

Oh I don't know.

My Aunt and her husband do it, as does my best friend and his wife.
My uncle watches the money in his marriage and it's kept them all well above board.

They both know exactly where the money is and what it gets spent on, but in each case one of them is very good with money.

I wish I'd done it with my ex, as she was absolutely dreadful with money, the kind of person who'd spend €80 in Penny's, and then forget to pay her phone bill, or in a few cases, the rent!

py2006 · 20-12-2011 8:33pm

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

why not? If he is useless with money.. its the sensible thing to do as he has a family to support

Wow, imagine having to ask your wife for money. You would never get a penny haha.

If anybody is that bad with money that they can't support their family when then they shouldn't be married with kids.

G-Money · 20-12-2011 8:59pm

I would never agree to have all my money in a joint account. If I ever get married, I intend to keep my money in my own account and if I'm in a joint account, it will only be something that I'd transfer the odd bit of money into now and again for various things.

I wouldn't care if any future wife had her own account either. In fact I'd probably find it a bit strange if she didn't.

Kimia · 21-12-2011 2:13am

I find it super weird that anyone would need to keep their account a secret. Joint account for joint expenses for bills and whatnot, and then the rest is play money for each of you! :pac:

Pawwed Rig · 21-12-2011 11:37am

Kimia wrote: »

I find it super weird that anyone would need to keep their account a secret. Joint account for joint expenses for bills and whatnot, and then the rest is play money for each of you! :pac:

My thoughts exactly. Obviously there are alot of things that you would go halves for, rent/mortgage, meals out, grocery shopping but if she wants one of those fish pedicure things she can use her own money:D

Having said that it gets more difficult where only one partner is on an income. Does one person have to justify all their personal spending to the other?

A secret account is lying. No 2 ways about it.

Wompa1 · 21-12-2011 1:23pm

I'm not married so maybe I'm a bit naive here but I'd have thought you would both put a chunk into a joint savings account. Have a joint current account for bills and expenses but then each have separate accounts for the majority of your money. Am I wrong?

py2006 · 21-12-2011 1:31pm

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm not married so maybe I'm a bit naive here but I'd have thought you would both put a chunk into a joint savings account. Have a joint current account for bills and expenses but then each have separate accounts for the majority of your money. Am I wrong?

No you are not wrong. I am not married (most likely never will be) but if I found out my partner had a 'secret' account well then there would be some serious questions.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 21-12-2011 3:18pm

seamus wrote: »

Secret being the important word there, as in hiding money from his wife/partner to spend on himself.

Myself and my wife operate separate accounts purely because we haven't gotten around to setting up a joint one yet (2 years later).

I think there's something to be said for both scenarios. What we find annoying is the need to transfer money between accounts in order to pay bills - e.g. she transfers half of the mortgage into my account every month. It gets annoying - every time a bill comes in, I have to ask her to give me half of it. If she does a big shop, she has to ask me for half it. A joint account would solve this obviously.

But then a joint account at the very least creates some need to account to the other half - "I took out €200 to buy something for my car." "Well did you really need it?". At least with separate accounts there's no requirement for either party to justify their spending, once the bills are being paid.

I think it's hard to have a best of both worlds;
You can have a single account where both parties transfer in what's needed for bills, but that still requires transfers and for either party to ask for money cos, "I did the shopping today".
You can have a single account where all income goes and then the spare cash is split at the end of the month (or whatever), but that too is troublesome - what happens when the account is short at the end of one month and neither party has anything spare in their other account? If it's a "fun money" account you might be inclined to spend it on the basis that the bills are paid.

I guess I suppose it depends on what both parties are happy with.

Open a joint account for bills. SO set up from your personal accounts for half the total amount of your bills.

Take it in turns to do the shopping.

seamus · 21-12-2011 3:50pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Open a joint account for bills. SO set up from your personal accounts for half the total amount of your bills.

Take it in turns to do the shopping.

Sounds logical and reasonable, but doesn't work in practice. The amounts on bills vary from month to month, and whoever does the shopping is whoever has time to do it, usually my wife because she doesn't work normal hours.

parker kent · 21-12-2011 4:38pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Open a joint account for bills. SO set up from your personal accounts for half the total amount of your bills.

Take it in turns to do the shopping.

Every couple will surely have their own arrangements? What works for one couple will not work for another. Your suggestion could work for many couples but like in the example above it won't work for others. There is no real right or wrong in it.

Well other than having secret accounts obviously. Having your own account seems sensible, but either wishing to keep it secret or feeling the need to keep it secret strikes me as weird or just wrong.

The Corinthian · 21-12-2011 9:15pm

seamus wrote: »

I would be skeptical of the comments. While I don't doubt that there are some vindictive bitches out there who do things like the comment you quote, I suspect it's far more likely to be a troll, it just ticks too many outrage boxes

Nope. They exist and more often that you'd care to imagine. Same goes for men who salt their money away in the event of the marriage breaking down.

Problem lies, IMHO, in the fact that marriage no longer reflects the society we live in today. It is a temporary institution masquerading as a permanent one.

And that is why people have these secret bank accounts.

Piste · 21-12-2011 11:35pm

What constitutes "secret"? I'd take it for granted most people would have a savings and personal account. Is it still "secret" if you don't specifically disclose that or how much is in it?

Otis Driftwood · 22-12-2011 10:42am

Secret would be IMO that the person doesnt tell their o/h about it and goes to efforts to keep it hidden.

Id have no issue with a partner having her own bank account.It makes sense to have a joint one for stuff like bills and a separate one for oneself.

Pawwed Rig · 22-12-2011 10:44am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Problem lies, IMHO, in the fact that marriage no longer reflects the society we live in today. It is a temporary institution masquerading as a permanent one.

And that is why people have these secret bank accounts.

Slightly off topic but I don't understand this sentiment. There are many marriages that last a lifetime. Marriage breakup in Ireland is still at a relatively low level.

I would imagine in any case of divorce a full disclosure is required of all the assets of both parties. it is hard to hide bank accounts as a simple search by a solicitor will turn them up. At this stage it is next to impossible to open an account in Ireland in anything other than your real name so I cannot really see how feasuble it would be to be able to rely on a secret account once the SHTF.

MarkR · 22-12-2011 11:01am

Does anyone here actually hand over their wages? Like most people (I think) I have a standing order every week that covers the basic expenses and bills for the house. We both have cards for our joint account and then our own separate accounts.

I don't think either of us would be comfortable losing our small level of financial independence.

The Corinthian · 22-12-2011 11:53am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I don't understand this sentiment. There are many marriages that last a lifetime. Marriage breakup in Ireland is still at a relatively low level.

And as a result many would never resort to doing something like keeping a secret bank account - we've already established that.

However even if there are many marriages that last a lifetime and divorce in Ireland is still at a relatively low level, it is not insignificant and that is why such measures are taken by both men and women.

Marriage is no longer what it used to be - a permanent bond, till death do you part. Divorces are no longer non-existent or marital breakup the rare exception to the rule. Even if still at a relatively low level, that level is creeping up, so while you may not break up this year or the next, you've got the rest of your life to do so and as things stand in Ireland the chances of a breakup already work out at about one-in-six; the same odds as losing in Russian Roulette.

This is not to say that marriage is defunct or that people should not get married or expect it to last for the rest of their lives (although it's clear that many shouldn't), only to point out that our society has changed, while the institution has not changed with it and naturally people are going to compensate for this - and I don't think that understanding this is OT.

I would imagine in any case of divorce a full disclosure is required of all the assets of both parties. it is hard to hide bank accounts as a simple search by a solicitor will turn them up. At this stage it is next to impossible to open an account in Ireland in anything other than your real name so I cannot really see how feasuble it would be to be able to rely on a secret account once the SHTF.

Why Ireland? There are no barriers to opening an account anywhere in the EU. Or set one up under a company name rather than your own (you don't even need to be a director, just a signatory on the account). All before you consider places like Switzerland, Luxenbourg or Lichtenstein where you can open one up easily if you know what you're doing.

Naturally, in many cases accounts can be traced in theory. I say in theory because while it may be easy to trace one in Ireland for a civil case if it is simply in your name, once you start putting even a tiny bit of distance between you and the account the costs of tracing it become prohibitively expensive for 99% of civil cases.

The tools for tracing hidden money in cases of crime, tax evasion and terrorism are draconian and easy to implement. Not so for civil cases.

Wives who have a secret bank account?

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