The Irish army is fighting in Afghanistan

Fuinseog · 19-01-2012 11:01am #1

at least according to the Indo, because the queen has just awarded an 'Irish soldier' the military cross.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/queen-gives-irish-soldier-medal-for-acts-of-bravery-2993717.html

Gareth2011 · 19-01-2012 11:08am

The Irish army is not fighting in afganistan. Its a tipp man who wanted to be an Irish solider but didn't get in because she suffered with asthma as a child. So he moved to the UK and joined their army to get some real action. He is not the only Irish man in the british army their is thousands of us.

Lumbo · 19-01-2012 11:10am

Gareth2011 wrote: »

The Irish army is not fighting in afganistan. Its a tipp man who wanted to be an Irish solider but didn't get in because she suffered with asthma as a child. So he moved to the UK and joined their army to get some real action. He is not the only Irish man in the british army their is thousands of us.

Wasn't there a memeber of the SAS who was from Mayo killed in Iraq.

Witcher · 19-01-2012 11:12am

The PDF actually are in Afghanistan as part of ISAF.

Morpheus · 19-01-2012 1:57pm

Irish is as Irish does. fair play to them.

tricky D · 19-01-2012 2:02pm

Blay wrote: »

The PDF actually are in Afghanistan as part of ISAF.

7 of them doing IED research type of activities. Not on the frontline.

MajorMax · 19-01-2012 3:11pm

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but is anyone else surprised that an Irishman would serve in the Para's?

helimachoptor · 19-01-2012 3:13pm

not really. was at a new years eve party in colchester with a load of paras a good few irish people there.

Witcher · 19-01-2012 3:13pm

tricky D wrote: »

7 of them doing IED research type of activities. Not on the frontline.

I never said they were frontline but they're still there.

tac foley · 19-01-2012 3:50pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

at least according to the Indo, because the queen has just awarded an 'Irish soldier' the military cross.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/queen-gives-irish-soldier-medal-for-acts-of-bravery-2993717.html

Hero.

tac

FutureGuy · 19-01-2012 3:55pm

What a legend. That's some show of bravery. Well done James!

tricky D · 19-01-2012 4:06pm

Blay wrote: »

I never said they were frontline but they're still there.

Never said you did. I merely mentioned it to counter the possible notion of us actively fighting that some people might take issue with. Their role also makes certain sense as some know-how has travelled from these shores all the way to the area.

Fuinseog · 19-01-2012 4:50pm

MajorMax wrote: »

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but is anyone else surprised that an Irishman would serve in the Para's?

given their track record on this island it does seem like a strange choice.

Fuinseog · 19-01-2012 4:51pm

tac foley wrote: »

Hero.

tac

a hero that is still alive and not missing any limbs. a very lucky boy.

Manic Moran · 20-01-2012 3:09am

tricky D wrote: »

Never said you did. I merely mentioned it to counter the possible notion of us actively fighting that some people might take issue with. Their role also makes certain sense as some know-how has travelled from these shores all the way to the area.

They're generally office types, but the one list of duties I saw in an Irish paper only had one soldier in the counter-IED cell.

I had an NCO who worked for an Irish officer in the Signals section.

I also have a feeling that the Irishman in the IED cell is doing a lot more learning than he is teaching. The levels of innovation and sophistication of bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq have leaped ahead of what the PIRA was doing. I think the concern is that the techniques currently in use in the MidEast will travel to Irish shores and the PDF should be ready for them.

NTM

Poccington · 20-01-2012 5:19pm

MajorMax wrote: »

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but is anyone else surprised that an Irishman would serve in the Para's?

Not really, I mean, they're one of the most renowned Infantry units in the world. I've always said if I was to make the jump to the BA, I'd be giving P Coy a crack.

Sure, their actions up North were awful but in terms of soldiering, you can't get much better than the Para's before you start hitting the SOF side of things, IMO.

Fair play to the lad.

tricky D · 20-01-2012 8:30pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

I also have a feeling that the Irishman in the IED cell is doing a lot more learning than he is teaching. The levels of innovation and sophistication of bombs in Afghanistan and Iraq have leaped ahead of what the PIRA was doing. I think the concern is that the techniques currently in use in the MidEast will travel to Irish shores and the PDF should be ready for them.

It's a bit of a moot as to which direction the net info flows. I would have reckoned that most C/R/P-IRA know-how had already been fairly well distributed at this stage. However then there's an episode where an MI6 walk-in, General Ali-Reza Asgari, of the Iranian VEVAK, provided information that a CIRA unit which had been tracked through Frankfurt to Iran around 2005-6, had supplied know-how for 'ultrasophisticated roadside bombs in three arms factories in the Lavizan suburb of Tehran.' From there, it was spread westwards to Iranian interests in Lebanon and Iraq, and eastwards, including Afghanistan. [Inside British Intelligence, 2009, Gordon Thomas, p34]

However whether we would have had that info first in Ireland or whether it would have flowed back to us from Afghanistan is another matter. I'd bet on the former as they were active enough up North prior to the time.

/wonders what ultrasophisticated means??

tac foley · 21-01-2012 12:53pm

tricky D wrote: »

/wonders what ultrasophisticated means??

Means that it is more likely to kill the intended person than the person planting it.

'Own goals' have always been unpopular, whether you are talking about football or terrorism.

tac

Delancey · 22-01-2012 12:45am

Fuinseog wrote: »

at least according to the Indo, because the queen has just awarded an 'Irish soldier' the military cross.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/queen-gives-irish-soldier-medal-for-acts-of-bravery-2993717.html

..... and a perfect example of the importance of reading and understanding a news article before commenting on it.....:rolleyes:

kabakuyu · 22-01-2012 1:19am

Lumbo wrote: »

Wasn't there a memeber of the SAS who was from Mayo killed in Iraq.

Don't know if this is who you are thinking about but Robert McKibben from Westport was KIA and the band of the Royal Marines played at his funeral in Westport, another Irish hero.

cruasder777 · 23-01-2012 3:01pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

at least according to the Indo, because the queen has just awarded an 'Irish soldier' the military cross.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/queen-gives-irish-soldier-medal-for-acts-of-bravery-2993717.html

Would about someone from the north in the BA, would you also class them as not being an Irish soldier ?

cruasder777 · 23-01-2012 3:02pm

kabakuyu wrote: »

Don't know if this is who you are thinking about but Robert McKibben from Westport was KIA and the band of the Royal Marines played at his funeral in Westport, another Irish hero.

He was in the Royal Marines Brigade reconassiance force and had just passed the first part of SAS/SBS selection.

goldie fish · 24-02-2012 10:04am

tricky D wrote: »

7 of them doing IED research type of activities. Not on the frontline.

In a war where the enemy combatant is the native of the land where the fight takes place, where is the frontline?

tricky D · 24-02-2012 1:26pm

goldie fish wrote: »

In a war where the enemy combatant is the native of the land where the fight takes place, where is the frontline?

I refer you to post #12

analyst2 · 24-02-2012 1:31pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

a hero that is still alive and not missing any limbs. a very lucky boy.

Superman and Spiderman were heros, and they were not missing any limbs.

What is more strange is your curious implied view that hero's usually have missing limbs.

DipStick McSwindler · 22-08-2012 10:17am

This post has been deleted.

Canvasser · 27-08-2012 9:48pm

Fuinseog wrote: »

at least according to the Indo, because the queen has just awarded an 'Irish soldier' the military cross.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/queen-gives-irish-soldier-medal-for-acts-of-bravery-2993717.html

An Irishman in the paras doing the dirty work of the British in Afghanistan. The paras shot 14 unarmed Irishmen dead in 1972 in Derry. They are nothing but thugs.

Canvasser · 27-08-2012 9:51pm

kabakuyu wrote: »

Don't know if this is who you are thinking about but Robert McKibben from Westport was KIA and the band of the Royal Marines played at his funeral in Westport, another Irish hero.

Hero? A mercenary you mean.

It wasn't me! · 27-08-2012 10:41pm

Canvasser wrote: »

Hero? A mercenary you mean.

I think you'd want to look at the accepted definition of that term.

Canvasser · 27-08-2012 11:19pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I think you'd want to look at the accepted definition of that term.

I know the definition and my use of it is entirely correct.

Happyman42 · 27-08-2012 11:24pm

Canvasser wrote: »

Hero? A mercenary you mean.

Correct, he's an Irishman who is a British soldier, he has sold his services to a foreign country. That makes him a mercenary.

It wasn't me! · 27-08-2012 11:45pm

No, it's not correct. Is he engaged for the duration of a specific contract, at a higher rate of pay than soldiers of British nationality? You're in a military forum. You want to call people mercenaries you're going to want to use it in its correct, military sense.

Happyman42 · 28-08-2012 12:09am

A mercenary is motivated by money not national interest.

goldie fish · 28-08-2012 12:16am

Happyman42 wrote: »

A mercenary is motivated by money not national interest.

That makes every single soldier a mercenary so.

It wasn't me! · 28-08-2012 12:16am

Happyman42 wrote: »

A mercenary is motivated by money not national interest.

I think you'll find most people in most jobs are motivated by money rather than national interest. That's not a useful definition of a mercenary, especially when one actually exists.

UN Mercenary Convention wrote:

1. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
(b) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar rank and functions in the armed forces of that party;
(c) Is neither a national of a party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a party to the conflict;
(d) Is not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict; and
(e) Has not been sent by a State which is not a party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
2. A mercenary is also any person who, in any other situation:
(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad for the purpose of participating in a concerted act of violence aimed at:
(i) Overthrowing a Government or otherwise undermining the constitutional order of a State; or
(ii) Undermining the territorial integrity of a State;
(b) Is motivated to take part therein essentially by the desire for significant private gain and is prompted by the promise or payment of material compensation;
(c) Is neither a national nor a resident of the State against which such an act is directed;
(d) Has not been sent by a State on official duty; and
(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of the State on whose territory the act is undertaken.

Happyman42 · 28-08-2012 12:28am

goldie fish wrote: »

That makes every single soldier a mercenary so.

Fair enough, wouldn't totally agree that all soldiers are motivated by money. He's an Irishman who is a mercenary.
He can fight for whoever pays him, nothing to do with me, just don't call him an Irish soldier, just like a New York policeman from Tallaght is not an Irish policeman, he's an American cop. Simple distinction really.

mathepac · 28-08-2012 1:00am

Happyman42 wrote: »

... just don't call him an Irish soldier, just like a New York policeman from Tallaght is not an Irish policeman, he's an American cop. Simple distinction really.

+1 on that part. The unfortunate thing is that the perception will always be that he is neither fish nor fowl.

He is clearly not an Irish soldier, as a member of the British Army, he's a British one; he's not an Irish hero and he may never find full acceptance as a British one either.

As you'd expect by a rag part-owned by the the family of General Field Marshall Admiral Sir AJF O'Reilly the Indo's scribblers got it all so wrong, again.

Rayne Wooney · 28-08-2012 1:16am

I've always wondered why they go across the pond to try join the SAS instead of staying here and going for the Army Rangers?

Is it just the amount of action?
Do they have to pledge their allegiance to the queen to join over there?

mathepac · 28-08-2012 1:29am

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

... Do they have to pledge their allegiance to the queen to join over there?

Soldiers in all democracies pledge their allegiance to the Head of State to avoid the politcos having direct control over the armed forces. In dictatorships, where the head of state and the head of government are one and the same, the swearing allegiance thing is meaningless, like in the US for example.

Rayne Wooney · 28-08-2012 1:37am

mathepac wrote: »

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

... Do they have to pledge their allegiance to the queen to join over there?

Soldiers in all democracies pledge their allegiance to the Head of State to avoid the politcos having direct control over the armed forces. In dictatorships, where the head of state and the head of government are one and the same, the swearing allegiance thing is meaningless, like in the US for example.

God that's patriotic.. Pleging allegiance to the queen, just for some action?

cruasder777 · 28-08-2012 8:35am

Canvasser wrote: »

I know the definition and my use of it is entirely correct.

Go and look the word up then come back.

Andy-Pandy · 28-08-2012 8:49am

Whats up with people problems about him being in the British army? The article clearly states he tried to join the Irish army but was not able to join due to asthma as a kid. Are loss is the British army's gain.

As the proud son of an Irish born officer of the British army i've had to deal with listening to people sh1te on for years. Its pathetic.

Canvasser · 28-08-2012 9:19am

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Whats up with people problems about him being in the British army? The article clearly states he tried to join the Irish army but was not able to join due to asthma as a kid. Are loss is the British army's gain.

As the proud son of an Irish born officer of the British army i've had to deal with listening to people sh1te on for years. Its pathetic.

He was so desperate to kill some people he wasn't fussy what army he joined?

Happyman42 · 28-08-2012 9:43am

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

Whats up with people problems about him being in the British army? The article clearly states he tried to join the Irish army but was not able to join due to asthma as a kid. Are loss is the British army's gain.

As the proud son of an Irish born officer of the British army i've had to deal with listening to people sh1te on for years. Its pathetic.

What's pathetic about it?
If you join an 'army' you are motivated by something. Somebody who joins a foreign army, especially one with the historical relationship with us that the BA has, is NOT motivated by love or the defence of their country but by a love of soldiering for soldiering's sake or by money. They can be justifiaby criticised by those who do love their country and who would defend it. You can be proud as you want, you can't be proud about his service to Ireland though.

It wasn't me! · 28-08-2012 11:16am

Happyman42 wrote: »

a love of soldiering for soldiering's sake

Far and away the best and most suitable reason to get involved in any such force. It's the only one I see as terribly useful, frankly.

Happyman42 · 28-08-2012 12:36pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Far and away the best and most suitable reason to get involved in any such force. It's the only one I see as terribly useful, frankly.

May well be useful, but all you are doing is just selling a service abroad, same as an engineer or a postman.

Canvasser · 28-08-2012 12:56pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Far and away the best and most suitable reason to get involved in any such force. It's the only one I see as terribly useful, frankly.

Thankfully the Waffen SS no longer exists if people are going to have your attitude

Canvasser · 28-08-2012 1:03pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

May well be useful, but all you are doing is just selling a service abroad, same as an engineer or a postman.

Postmen don't kill people

It wasn't me! · 28-08-2012 1:14pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

May well be useful, but all you are doing is just selling a service abroad, same as an engineer or a postman.

My point exactly, and precisely the reason comments about being mercenaries and traitors and so on and so forth are complete horseshít.

Canvasser, I think you'll find most professional soldiers everywhere will tell you the job's pretty much the same wherever you do it. Most in my experience are motivated by the job, rather than some deep and nebulous love of country.

Happyman42 · 28-08-2012 1:42pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

My point exactly, and precisely the reason comments about being mercenaries and traitors and so on and so forth are complete horseshít.

Who mentioned anything about being traitors?
The point is they are not 'Irish soldiers'. They are soldiers for hire, you can call that whatever you like, I call that mercenary. They would only become traitors if they acted against our national interests.

Canvasser · 28-08-2012 1:44pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Canvasser, I think you'll find most professional soldiers everywhere will tell you the job's pretty much the same wherever you do it. Most in my experience are motivated by the job, rather than some deep and nebulous love of country.

Sounds like mercenaries to me

The Irish army is fighting in Afghanistan

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