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Open vent issue

  • 21-06-2012 6:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭


    Hi was looking at a central heating system, Its an old potterton prima f boiler but the f&e header tank in the attic has no vent pipe and the feed from it is in 15MM...?? Is this totally wrong??


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    here is a sketch of what im talking about..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭anthonyos


    is there a problem ???i dont think there is anything wrong


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    I dont really understand your diagram but if we're talking combined cold feed and vent then it should be 3/4 pipe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    No the system is drained down now, but im wondering about when filling it back up will it give me trouble... Why is there no vent?? I thought being open vented it would need to be vented or atleast combined feed & vent and i thought that needed to be 22mm..?


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    I dont really understand your diagram but if we're talking combined cold feed and vent then it should be 3/4 pipe.

    What dont you understand?? And i will try break it down... and i was thinking the same if it was combined..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭anthonyos


    are you a plumber??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    If there's no vent pipe there must be a vessel somewhere... Under the floor, under the stairs, in a press could be anywhere. Is there a nrv on the cold supply?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    If there's no vent pipe there must be a vessel somewhere... Under the floor, under the stairs, in a press could be anywhere. Is there a nrv on the cold supply?

    :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    :confused:

    what do you not understand? :confused:
    if theres no vent pipe it must be a closed system and a pressure vessel must be located somewhere in the house.... get me?

    Sorry just read that back billy... sound like a w@nker. didnt mean to come across like that


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭anthonyos


    what do you not understand? :confused:
    if theres no vent pipe it must be a closed system and a pressure vessel must be located somewhere in the house.... get me?

    but does the op understand ???going into detail like this can be a waste of time typical diyer incompetence


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    sitja wrote: »
    No the system is drained down now, but im wondering about when filling it back up will it give me trouble... Why is there no vent?? I thought being open vented it would need to be vented or atleast combined feed & vent and i thought that needed to be 22mm..?

    why do you think its opened vented? Because the boiler is old? The prima can be used on a closed/sealed system.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    what do you not understand? :confused:
    if theres no vent pipe it must be a closed system and a pressure vessel must be located somewhere in the house.... get me?

    Sorry, but have you ever heard of a combined cold feed and expansion pipe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    sitja wrote: »
    No the system is drained down now, but im wondering about when filling it back up will it give me trouble... Why is there no vent?? I thought being open vented it would need to be vented or atleast combined feed & vent and i thought that needed to be 22mm..?

    why do you think its opened vented? Because the boiler is old? The prima can be used on a closed/sealed system.
    I have good plumbing experience but not to much domestic.. All pipework in house is exposed so im sure there is no vessel.. it aint sealed.. the system is as the sketch is really.. there was previously a back boiler but that has been disconnected from system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    Sorry, but have you ever heard of a combined cold feed and expansion pipe.

    Of course... but the OP said there was NO vent pipe in the attic. A common cold feed and expansion would/should be 3/4, as you said, off the top of flow pipe on the coil up into the attic. Spilt 1/2 into the tank for the fill and continue 3/4 up and over the tank for a vent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    Of course... but the OP said there was NO vent pipe in the attic. A common cold feed and expansion would/should be 3/4, as you said, off the top of flow pipe on the coil up into the attic. Spilt 1/2 into the tank for the fill and continue 3/4 up and over the tank for a vent.

    So presumably if the 1/2 cold feed was an undersized feed and vent pipe that would mean it may well not be a sealed system. ;)

    As i said on post1 the diagram is vaige.

    Incidentally, it doesnt need to split and vent over the tank.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    Of course... but the OP said there was NO vent pipe in the attic. A common cold feed and expansion would/should be 3/4, as you said, off the top of flow pipe on the coil up into the attic. Spilt 1/2 into the tank for the fill and continue 3/4 up and over the tank for a vent.

    So presumably if the 1/2 cold feed was an undersized feed and vent pipe that would mean it may well not be a sealed system. ;)

    As i said on post1 the diagram is vaige.

    Incidentally, it doesnt need to split and vent over the tank.

    Yes im aware of a combined system but it being a half inch pipe made me think something is wrong. and i am wondering is this safe if it is a combined system and the pipe is half inch..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    So presumably if the 1/2 cold feed was an undersized feed and vent pipe that would mean it may well not be a sealed system. ;)

    As i said on post1 the diagram is vaige.

    Incidentally, it doesnt need to split and vent over the tank.

    Suppose it doesnt need to spilt but i have never seen one not. Unlikely not to have a vent up and over IF it is an open system. It could be over the domestic tank seen that loads of times. In fairness it could be anything and we're only guessing at this stage! open, closed, vessel, vent, non return, common cold feed and expansion.... Put the kettle on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    sitja wrote: »
    Yes im aware of a combined system but it being a half inch pipe made me think something is wrong. and i am wondering is this safe if it is a combined system and the pipe is half inch..

    Best get a domestic plumber to have a quick look if your not sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    sitja wrote: »
    Yes im aware of a combined system but it being a half inch pipe made me think something is wrong. and i am wondering is this safe if it is a combined system and the pipe is half inch..

    IF it is a combined feed and vent (it does seem a possibility) then in 1/2 then yes, it is very dangerous, cold feeds block regulary, if yours blocks you have a presure cooker.
    Suppose it doesnt need to spilt but i have never seen one not. Unlikely not to have a vent up and over IF it is an open system.

    I'm sure Mr Google will show you a few examples,,,,,,,, http://www.google.com/imgres?q=combined+feed+and+vent+pipe&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACAW_enIE398&biw=887&bih=423&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=o0Sj8aBjUTHw5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675.htm&docid=iSUH9N4-n0fOqM&imgurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675-015.gif&w=235&h=228&ei=oYbjT8y8B4WBhQfi-8TbAw&zoom=1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    Mr Google :):):)..... Thats a UK way of doing it :D (i am not a racist, i love black people)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    sitja wrote: »
    Yes im aware of a combined system but it being a half inch pipe made me think something is wrong. and i am wondering is this safe if it is a combined system and the pipe is half inch..

    IF it is a combined feed and vent (it does seem a possibility) then in 1/2 then yes, it is very dangerous, cold feeds block regulary, if yours blocks you have a presure cooker.
    Suppose it doesnt need to spilt but i have never seen one not. Unlikely not to have a vent up and over IF it is an open system.

    I'm sure Mr Google will show you a few examples,,,,,,,, http://www.google.com/imgres?q=combined+feed+and+vent+pipe&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACAW_enIE398&biw=887&bih=423&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=o0Sj8aBjUTHw5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675.htm&docid=iSUH9N4-n0fOqM&imgurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675-015.gif&w=235&h=228&ei=oYbjT8y8B4WBhQfi-8TbAw&zoom=1


    See thats the only pipework going to attic.. Storage tank is downstairs aswell as dhw cylinder.. was just hoping others witnesed this an had advice.. See the system is drained and i never seen it work but im to assume it worked for previous users..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭aujopimur


    Your system is what's known as semi sealed, it was acceptable once upon a time.
    I would'nt consider it dangerous, the easiest way to to bring it up to spec is to fit an expansion vessel on the boiler flow before any valves or pump.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    sitja wrote: »
    sitja wrote: »
    Yes im aware of a combined system but it being a half inch pipe made me think something is wrong. and i am wondering is this safe if it is a combined system and the pipe is half inch..

    IF it is a combined feed and vent (it does seem a possibility) then in 1/2 then yes, it is very dangerous, cold feeds block regulary, if yours blocks you have a presure cooker.
    Suppose it doesnt need to spilt but i have never seen one not. Unlikely not to have a vent up and over IF it is an open system.

    I'm sure Mr Google will show you a few examples,,,,,,,, http://www.google.com/imgres?q=combined+feed+and+vent+pipe&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACAW_enIE398&biw=887&bih=423&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=o0Sj8aBjUTHw5M:&imgrefurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675.htm&docid=iSUH9N4-n0fOqM&imgurl=http://www.partsarena.com/baxi/System/DATA/Dx/DS1/installation/2675/I44-2675/I44-2675-015.gif&w=235&h=228&ei=oYbjT8y8B4WBhQfi-8TbAw&zoom=1


    See thats the only pipework going to attic.. Storage tank is downstairs aswell as dhw cylinder.. was just hoping others witnesed this an had advice.. See the system is drained and i never seen it work but im to assume it worked for previous users..

    Are you a plumber billy..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Billy Bunting


    sitja wrote: »
    Are you a plumber billy..

    No!! Do you need a plumber ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    sitja wrote: »
    Are you a plumber billy..

    No!! Do you need a plumber ??


    I only seen the comment semi sealed there.. if it is semi sealed.. how did it expand previously.. I was just wondering was my sketch that bad that a plumber couldnt understand..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    What storage tank is downstairs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    What storage tank is downstairs?
    The storage cistern for sink and toilet.. no toilet or plumbing other than heating upstairs..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭spireland32


    sitja wrote: »
    What storage tank is downstairs?
    The storage cistern for sink and toilet.. no toilet or plumbing other than heating upstairs..

    This is getting confusing! What does this storage tank look like? Is there only the f&e tank in the attic? No other tank?

    Better off get a mate of yours in domestic heating to throw on eye on it for you if you feel it's unsafe. Really need to see it to give a definite answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    Yup thats all thats in attic... Plumbing is crazy throughout the house... will try take a few pics if im there tommorrow... Basically attic has main to feed expansion tank, 1/2 cold feed from it and then a 3/4 overflow. will try enhance my sketch a bit better so you guys can try get the idea... I Am really just considering close coupling it before the pump on the flow.

    But was curious to know was the set up ok as it was.. But obviously not... My only conclusion is that it was a combined feed & vent but was undersized and should of been 3/4 pipe.

    Oh and storage tank looks like any other standard house plastic tank..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭sitja


    I tried to make drawing a bit better for you guys to understand but still pretty much the same, I also put in the design I would change to if acceptable, those are the yellow and purple lines.... the black line (cold feed) would be rerouted to tie in next the boiler and not where its seen tied in earlier in the sketch..


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