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NBP: Preferred consultants identified.

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  • 25-04-2013 3:01pm
    #1
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭


    "In an important milestone towards delivery of this commitment in the Plan, my Department has identified, following the evaluation of tender responses to a request for experts, the preferred bidder to assist in the design, planning and procurement of the State-led investment. Intensive technical, financial and legal preparations including stakeholder engagement will be ongoing throughout 2013 with a view to the launch of a procurement process in 2014. High-speed broadband services can be delivered by a diverse range of technology platforms and it is intended to adopt a technology-neutral approach in this procurement process."

    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-04-18a.442


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    #2
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    clohamon wrote: »
    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-04-18a.442

    I see the dept is still pimping mobile as broadband,well that's what I see when I hear "technology neutral"


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    #3
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭clohamon


    bealtine wrote: »
    I see the dept is still pimping mobile as broadband,,well that's what I see when I hear "technology neutral"

    Yes, and it looks like they're running the same game plan as for the NBS.

    There is no obligation to be technologically neutral that's just factually false.


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    #4
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    clohamon wrote: »
    Yes, and it looks like they're running the same game plan as for the NBS.

    There is no obligation to be technologically neutral that's just factually false.

    I've been using mobile as "broadband" for the last few weeks and this is my experience of it (see attached)

    Note that this is in a Dublin city centre location and a number of times I either had no upload and sometimes no connection at all...and I love the ping times varying wildly from useless to ok.

    I've used 3G as "broadband" before but this time I decided to log it using an app called OpenSignal http://opensignal.com/
    (There's an app for IOS and android)

    3g is fine if I want to do a twitter post letting you know what I had for breakfast as waiting a few minutes for a connection is ok when you are out and about
    but it's rubbish for real internet usage


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    #5
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Ironically dual time slot 28Kbps GSM may be slow, but it was always consistent and if there was a signal always worked.

    It was always inherent that both regular original 240Kbps 3G and later HSPA or even 42Mbps channel bonded HSPA+ would be wildly variable in performance and unreliable, with a minimum speed of 120Kbps and disconnects / no connects.

    Dual channel ISDN always connects, doesn't drop connection, has reasonable fixed ping and is error free 128K. It's not Broadband.

    4G / LTE won't ever be Broadband either.

    Geo Satellite won't be Broadband ever. It's doubtful that Astra's "Swarm" of MEO birds if ever active will be "Broadband" though it ought to be much better latency (ping). It's only though for 3rd World and may be outstripped by Fibre & Microwave deployments as well as 3G/4G in Africa.

    Satellite is great for Broadcast. So good that Ofcom and Comreg stupidly think it can replace Terrestrial TV (it can't) so they can flog ALL the TV spectrum for Mobile services that can never be broadband and can't deliver TV.


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    #6
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    watty wrote: »
    Ironically dual time slot 28Kbps GSM may be slow, but it was always consistent and if there was a signal always worked.

    IoffL have been saying (for years) that 3G wasn't broadband so I decided to actually measure the performance of the 3G cell sites I was attached to.
    I was less than 200 metres from the cell site and in a fixed location so I think the test results are pretty valid and clearly demonstrate that 3G can be rubbish and can't be relied on to deliver a consistent "broadband" experience.


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    #7
    Bill Shock
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Bill Shock


    More State money for Analysys Mason presumably......


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    #8
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Bill Shock wrote: »
    More State money for Analysys Mason presumably......

    Analysys Mason already did a report for the Department: "Analysis of options for potential State intervention in the roll out of next-generation broadband" (cost €30,522)... and Indecon have also done a report: "Economic / Socio-Economic Analysis of Options for Rollout of Next Generation Broadband” (cost €28,167) so I suppose both have a foot in the door. With a project this size I'd be surprised if DCENR gave it to anyone that wasn't house-trained.

    Part of the Request for Tenders (RFT) includes a Cost Benefit Analysis. CBAs have become suspect because of the result-oriented bias that often creeps in, but it might at least show where the bias is. On that score the Taskforce has already indicated that the plan could be implemented with €175M of government cash. It seems likely that if they know how much its going to cost, they must also know what it entails. I suppose the CBA will do no more than confirm a pre-cooked but unarticulated plan - LTE, and therefore give the Minister and his officials the cover they need.


    The RFT also asks that consultants give advice ... "on all technologies currently offered and planned by the market that can/have the potential to deliver on the targets set out in the NBP". So there's plenty of room for manoeuvre.


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    #9
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    clohamon wrote: »
    The RFT also asks that consultants give advice ... "on all technologies currently offered and planned by the market that can/have the potential to deliver on the targets set out in the NBP". So there's plenty of room for manoeuvre.

    Decoding that statement means we'll invest in mobile technology yet again, we haven't learnt that the mobile operators are selling snake-oil yet.

    Let's subsidize random massive multi-national corporations and ignore the options for real broadband who are mostly selling nonesense.

    Any plan for broadband should envisage a rollout of fibre to as close to the consumer as possible(preferably a few kilometres), the blueprint for doing this is well researched and documented in other countries. Then you can deliver whatever you like to the consumer...even crappy mobile


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    #10
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    bealtine wrote: »
    I've been using mobile as "broadband" for the last few weeks and this is my experience of it (see attached)

    Here's some more data from the excellent opensignal app, this is the average ul/dl for all operators around Dublin city centre:


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    #11
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Average is meaningless when the speed can go from 0.12 to 21Mbps.

    You need to have a curve.

    You are not comfortable with head in oven and legs in the Freezer.


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    #12
    cgarvey
    Registered Users Posts: 3,886 ✭✭✭cgarvey


    bealtine wrote: »
    Here's some more data from the excellent opensignal app, this is the average ul/dl for all operators around Dublin city centre:

    Hate to say it, but that's actually pretty good. I wonder is the sample size anywhere near large enough for it to be representative?


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    #13
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    watty wrote: »
    Average is meaningless when the speed can go from 0.12 to 21Mbps.

    True enough that an average is meaningless but I thought it was interesting. It doesn't take into account the slowest or the fastest...


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    #14
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    cgarvey wrote: »
    Hate to say it, but that's actually pretty good. I wonder is the sample size anywhere near large enough for it to be representative?

    Well you've got to take into account that 3G was initially sold as what 21Mb/s and up...


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    #15
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Actually 3G was "sold" as Video phones and 340K bps approx. It's HSPA+ that is touted as 21Mbps.

    In real use it's the amount of time it's less than 1Mbps that counts. Also 230ms is a very poor average.

    If you are on Average 3Mbps DSL, you get 3Mbps. If you are on an average of 3Mbps Mobile it could be 0.2Mbps more than 1/2 the time (not saying it is).


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    #16
    clohamon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭clohamon


    Bill Shock wrote: »
    More State money for Analysys Mason presumably......

    It seems not...

    As announced by the department, Prisa Consulting got the job though they might still be subcontracting parts of it to others.

    The department keep talking about the mapping and having taken preliminary steps etc. Today they're saying it has been "kick-started", but it's not clear if the contract for a GIS resource ,that was advertised in August of last year, has been completed yet or if anyone has been appointed to that role.


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    #17
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    clohamon wrote: »
    It seems not...

    As announced by the department, Prisa Consulting got the job though they might still be subcontracting parts of it to others.

    The department keep talking about the mapping and having taken preliminary steps etc. Today they're saying it has been "kick-started" but it's not clear if the GIS resource ,that was advertised in August of last year, has been filled yet.



    oooh great a bunch of "consultants" that know less than nothing about telecommunications...


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