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Atheist Ireland meets Forum on Primary Education

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  • 07-09-2011 3:18am
    #1
    Michael Nugent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭


    Yesterday, Tuesday September 6, Jane Donnelly and I attended the Department of Education’s Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector. We were there to elaborate on, and answer questions about, the written submission that Atheist Ireland previously made to the Forum.

    We were questioned by the Advisory Group to the Forum, which consists of Chairperson Dr. John Coolahan, Professor Emeritus at NUI Maynooth; Dr. Caroline Hussey, former Registrar and Deputy President, UCD; Fionnuala Kilfeather, former Chief Executive of the National Primary Parents Council; and the Secretary to the Forum, Breda Naughton.

    You can read more details about this session on our secular education campaign website Teach Don't Preach.

    Atheist Ireland meets Forum on Primary Education


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    #2
    darealtulip
    Registered Users Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭darealtulip


    http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/2011/09/atheist-ireland-meets-irish-government-forum-on-primary-education/

    AI was interviewed By the Forum on Patronage about their submission. The Humananist were interviewed as well yesterday. Does anyone has an account of that?


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    #3
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭swampgas


    darealtulip wrote: »
    http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/2011/09/atheist-ireland-meets-irish-government-forum-on-primary-education/

    AI was interviewed By the Forum on Patronage about their submission. The Humananist were interviewed as well yesterday. Does anyone has an account of that?

    Thanks for the link - I think the human rights angle is crucial in this debate.


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    #4
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Merged two threads on the same topic


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    #5
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    our education system shouldn't be neutral on religion.


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    #6
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    expectationlost wrote: »
    our education system shouldn't be neutral on religion.
    Care to elaborate?


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    #7
    Blackhorse Slim
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 1,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    expectationlost wrote: »
    our education system shouldn't be neutral on religion.

    Damn right.



    It also shouldn't be neutral on football. I don't want to send my son to a school where he will be forced to mix with Arsenal fans, and that won't respect our belief that Spurs will one day win the Champions League.


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    #8
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    obvious no point discussing things seriously here^


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    #9
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    expectationlost wrote: »
    obvious no point discussing things seriously here^

    Go ahead, defend your point on why the education system shouldn't be neutral on religion...


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    #10
    Daftendirekt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Daftendirekt


    expectationlost wrote: »
    obvious no point discussing things seriously here^

    You haven't really tried discussing anything though...

    You've just made a short, ambiguous and controversial statement, without elaborating on or attempting to support it.

    :confused:


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    #11
    Michael Nugent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    A summary of the questions and answers part of our meeting with the Forum is now online.

    You can read it on our secular education campaign website Teach Don't Preach.

    Atheist Ireland meets Irish Government Forum on Primary Education Part 2


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    #12
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    Michael Nugent wrote: »
    A summary of the questions and answers part of our meeting with the Forum is now online.

    You can read it on our secular education campaign website Teach Don't Preach.

    Atheist Ireland meets Irish Government Forum on Primary Education Part 2

    Some good responses there, good work. Some thoughts on some of the questions:

    The Forum asked us our views on the post primary religious education programme. post primary religious education is a fcuking joke. I had a look at my nephews junior cert religion book a week or so back, it has a chapter on science and religion, which states: (I'm paraphrasing, but only a little) "Science is constantly making new discoveries which tells us more about how we evolved and which show the allegorical nature of the creation description of the bible. But the human eye is so complicated that it couldn't have evolved, so this justifies those scientists with religious beliefs".
    In another chapter, on historical evidence for Jesus, it portrays Josephus and Tactus as if they had unbiased, first hand experiences with Jesus and wrote extensively about him. It was also quite telling that the section in the book on Christianity was ~ 100 pages, the section on Judaism was ~ 70 pages, the section on Islam ~ 40 pages and the sections on Hinduism and Buddhism were web address, with no chapter for atheism/agonsticism (I don't know if they where hidden in some other chapter, I only looked at the book for a minute).

    The Forum asked us our views on the argument that every child has a right to a broad-based education, and if they are opting out of the religion part, they are being left with a vacuum in terms of ethical and moral development within the education system. Did you ask the forum why it thought that religion was seemingly the only source of ethics and morality?

    The Forum asked us our views on the pragmatic reality that we are starting with an existing embedded system and not a blank sheet.I have no idea why they think this makes a difference. You don't need a physical change in school buildings to make the changes needed, you just need to teach the things that kids actually need to learn, in an efficient way. If this requires new materials, new teachers and new teaching methods, then it would still require them if there was a blank slate in the education system.

    I realise that the forum was probably playing devils advocate a bit, asking the questions they knew the religious educators currently in power would use to try and justify their own existence, but it doesn't take a lot to see the last two questions I referred to are just nonsense.


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    #13
    Michael Nugent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I realise that the forum was probably playing devils advocate a bit, asking the questions they knew the religious educators currently in power would use to try and justify their own existence, but it doesn't take a lot to see the last two questions I referred to are just nonsense.

    I think you're probably right. They are likely to have been putting some questions to us that other participants in the forum have raised with them. We didn't ask them what they think as their role is to act within their terms of reference. We did ask them to highlight in their report some unhelpful aspects of their terms of reference.


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