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No lead in latest poll

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Comments

  • #102
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    LostinBlanch wrote: »
    They never gave people even one concrete reason why voting yes would benefit them personally.
    Probably because there is none. You cannot possibly assure a voter that approving an international treaty is going to improve their own life.

    Can you offer a concrete reason for voting 'No' that would benefit me personally?


  • #103
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Gibbins123 wrote: »
    Isn't it ture that Libertas has US connections, and the US doesn't want the EU to become more powerful than it?

    Forget Libertas. Do your own research. Make up your own mind. Don't let Libertas/the U.S. persuade you.
    You are refering to Gay Michael's comments?


  • #104
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Is this another threat?

    "French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner has warned that Ireland would pay a high price if it rejects the Lisbon Treaty in the referendum this week."
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0609/eulisbon.html?rss

    Irish people don't like been bullied.:mad:


  • #105
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this another threat?
    No, I don't think so:
    RT&#201 wrote: »
    Mr Kouchner, speaking on RTL radio, argued that the 'Irish would be penalising themselves' by rejecting the Lisbon Treaty on reforming EU institutions and linked its fate to that of Ireland's buoyant economy.
    So basically he's saying we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot and I would tend to agree. I fail to see how this could be construed as “threatening”.


  • #106
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    gurramok wrote: »
    Is this another threat?

    "French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner has warned that Ireland would pay a high price if it rejects the Lisbon Treaty in the referendum this week."
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0609/eulisbon.html?rss

    Irish people don't like been bullied.:mad:

    /sigh.

    The supposed 'reasons' to vote yes should speak for themselves rather than resorting to threats.


  • #107
    gordon_gekko
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭gordon_gekko


    if i was to encapsulate the no voters attitude to europe in a song , it would be janet jacksons , what have you done for me lately

    like the farmers , the only interest we had in europe was what we could get out of it


  • #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    johnnyq wrote: »
    /sigh.

    The supposed 'reasons' to vote yes should speak for themselves rather than resorting to threats.
    Would it make a difference if the 2nd officer who is a first cousin of the third emperor of swaziland said it?

    It shouldn't for either.
    The French foreign minister is talking out of his arsé.
    He probably thinks that there will be a no vote here so he's talking up the response to his countries favour.

    In actual fact he's probably hoping for a no vote to spite Ireland.
    What better way to help things along in that direction but to say something like this.

    they're a new government over there see.
    And they are a right wing government so they are only jealous as to what we secured in the treaty.


  • #109
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Would it make a difference if the 2nd officer who is a first cousin of the third emperor of swaziland said it?

    It shouldn't for either.
    The French foreign minister is talking out of his arsé.
    He probably thinks that there will be a no vote here so he's talking up the response to his countries favour.

    In actual fact he's probably hoping for a no vote to spite Ireland.
    What better way to help things along in that direction but to say something like this.

    they're a new government over there see.
    And they are a right wing government so they are only jealous as to what we secured in the treaty.
    I very very much doubt that he is hoping for a no vote in Ireland.


  • #110
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    johnnyq wrote: »
    I very very much doubt that he is hoping for a no vote in Ireland.
    What makes you think that?
    He may dislike the fact that big countries don't get as much power as they could, and might like a renegotition.


  • #111
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    The_Minister wrote: »
    What makes you think that?
    He may dislike the fact that big countries don't get as much power as they could, and might like a renegotition.
    So he is using reverse psychology you say? to risk upsetting his PM who will implement the changes if given the chance? Don't think so.


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  • #112
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    johnnyq wrote: »
    So he is using reverse psychology you say? to risk upsetting his PM who will implement the changes if given the chance? Don't think so.
    You do realise that any renegotiation would have a greater chance of benefitting France as opposed to Ireland?


  • #113
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    The_Minister wrote: »
    You do realise that any renegotiation would have a greater chance of benefitting France as opposed to Ireland?
    Feel free to adress my point about motive when you get the time

    but about France benefiting at Ireland's expense. We would have to vote for this again not the french citizens, they have been sidetracked. I think you're argument should be that France could gain despite Ireland's gain.


  • #114
    Duffman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭Duffman


    The_Minister wrote: »
    You do realise that any renegotiation would have a greater chance of benefitting France as opposed to Ireland?

    This may well be the case.

    Something the "better deal" crowd might consider is what happened when the French and Dutch voted no. The Constitutional Treaty, which was at least intelligible and explainable and drawn up after what was probably the most widespread consultation with ordinary citizens and interest groups ever, was shot down.

    Now we have Lisbon which people whine about being impossible to understand. That's legal reality I'm afraid. The voters said they didn't want a constitution, so this is an amending treaty instead - it needs to be this complicated.

    That worked out well for all concerned :rolleyes:

    A rejection today will damage this country more than most people realise. Think very carefully about what you wish for.


  • #115
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    If what we're discussing here are the recent remarks by the French Foreign Minister, any analysis that he might have wanted a particular reaction from Ireland rather needs to take into account the fact that the remarks were made in French, in France, to a minor French TV station.

    This is similar to someone at RTE asking Dermot Ahern what he feels the outcome for Irish trade might be of the latest round of ASEAN talks - on TnaG. It is possible that our Foreign Minister might use that as a platform for bullying the ASEAN negotiators - but only in world where Michael O'Leary's fleet consists of porcine animals.

    Fortunately, the keen-eyed boys of the British eurosceptic press picked up the potential "bullying" and fed it back into the Irish referendum. Cheers, Mr Murdoch - we'd never have known we were being bullied in a foreign language on a foreign TV station without you.

    a little sarcastically,
    Scofflaw


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