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Hijab, Niqab or Nothing interview

135

Comments

  • #102
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    If atheism is a religion, then not kicking a ball around is a sport.
    P.
    i am convinced, atheism is not a religion. Is it your last argument or what are you trying to tell me.


  • #103
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Are all people in the world muslim? Let's see what you got to answer this.

    I dont have to answer this, because it has nothing to do with what I said. It doesn't matter what religion anyone else is if Islam gives muslims the spiritual eduction sufficient to stop having sex.
    dead one wrote: »
    my point is same, Are all people in the world muslims

    What difference does it matter if all the people in world are muslims, in relation to what I said? Again this has nothing to do with what I said.
    dead one wrote: »
    it seems you've got the point.

    :confused: Ookkaaayyyy....


  • #104
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I dont have to answer this, because it has nothing to do with what I said. It doesn't matter what religion anyone else is if Islam gives muslims the spiritual eduction sufficient to stop having sex.
    you have no anwer, I asked you a simple question "Are all people in the world muslim".... It gives you answer, why islam displays women in most beautiful manner. It gives identity to women even in westren countries, where dating and Premarital sex is very common. It tells westren these women are straightfarwarded women, you can't bribe their beauty to flourish your shops. You have no answer for that... You have told me " Islam would not require material obstacles (the hijab) and material threats (prison, lashes with canes etc.) to stop people having sex." It's the answer why islam places hijab for women.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    What difference does it matter if all the people in world are muslims, in relation to what I said? Again this has nothing to do with what I said.
    it matters because if you are muslim, you can control your desires... Islam is a way which tells people how to control illegal desires. I am talking about practising muslims... You won't find practising muslim doing such thing, they respect their family as well familes of other. You won't find a practising muslim with girlfriend/boyfriend. It's pure stupidity on earth.


  • #105
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    you have no anwer, I asked you a simple question "Are all people in the world muslim".... It gives you answer, why islam displays women in most beautiful manner. It gives identity to women even in westren countries, where dating and Premarital sex is very common. It tells westren these women are straightfarwarded women, you can't bribe their beauty to flourish your shops. You have no answer for that... You have told me " Islam would not require material obstacles (the hijab) and material threats (prison, lashes with canes etc.) to stop people having sex." It's the answer why islam places hijab for women.

    I really have no interest in posting with people who so inexpertly try to dodge the points put to them. Your question about whether the whole world is muslim or not is simply irrelevant to the point I made about what Islam actually relies on to enforce its "spiritual" education. If Islam did really spiritually educate someone to not have sex, as you claimed in post 98, then it would not matter to them what every else does or believes in, as they themselves would be spiritually in Islam. And, to bring it back to the point I made, if they where spiritually educated in Islam, then they would not need materialistic, physical obstacles and threats to stop them from having sex.
    dead one wrote: »
    it matters because if you are muslim, you can control your desires... Islam is a way which tells people how to control illegal desires. I am talking about practising muslims... You won't find practising muslim doing such thing, they respect their family as well familes of other. You won't find a practising muslim with girlfriend/boyfriend. It's pure stupidity on earth.

    :confused: If Islam teaches you to control your desires, all your desires, then why does it need such draconian physical obstacles in relation to sexual desires (Hijab), but not in terms of material desires? No-one has to cover up their sports car for fear of tempting other people to steal it?

    Look, you posts have really fallen into mindless propaganda at this stage, repeating the same irrelevant points that really just add to the contradictions I'm pointing out. I would really like to discuss the points I'm making, but if you just continue like this I'll stop posting. It isn't getting us anywhere.


  • #106
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I really have no interest in posting with people who so inexpertly try to dodge the points put to them. Your question about whether the whole world is muslim or not is simply irrelevant to the point I made about what Islam actually relies on to enforce its "spiritual" education. If Islam did really spiritually educate someone to not have sex, as you claimed in post 98, then it would not matter to them what every else does or believes in, as they themselves would be spiritually in Islam. And, to bring it back to the point I made, if they where spiritually educated in Islam, then they would not need materialistic, physical obstacles and threats to stop them from having sex.
    again, you're getting point, hijab isn't physical obstacle, if it is then what makes you to wear pant... Is your pant physical obstacles ... Why don't you go to office in underwear. Why do you hide your self in dresses. Hijab is signal to the youth about height and status of women. Your youth feel no shame to humiliate womankind because they are brainwashed about status of women in a society. I am talking about a society free from corruption... Where children are born with father. My point that "Are all people muslim in the word" has got to do with your point because you know all people don't see women as practicing Muslim see...... As the world isn't uniform community, so there must a dress which difference pure women from those women who practice evil.... Have you ever seen a hooker, You will judged her because of her dress... So dress is important, Hijab will make you feel that the women is pious women.... I don't know why are you getting this simple point... hell on the plant earth.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    :confused: If Islam teaches you to control your desires, all your desires, then why does it need such draconian physical obstacles in relation to sexual desires (Hijab), but not in terms of material desires? No-one has to cover up their sports car for fear of tempting other people to steal it?
    I have given you answer, i don't why are you repeating it again and again....


  • #107
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    again, you're getting point, hijab isn't physical obstacle, if it is then what makes you to wear pant... Is your pant physical obstacles ... Why don't you go to office in underwear. Why do you hide your self in dresses. Hijab is signal to the youth about height and status of women. Your youth feel no shame to humiliate womankind because they are brainwashed about status of women in a society. I am talking about a society free from corruption... Where children are born with father. My point that "Are all people muslim in the word" has got to do with your point because you know all people don't see women as practicing Muslim see...... As the world isn't uniform community, so there must a dress which difference pure women from those women who practice evil.... Have you ever seen a hooker, You will judged her because of her dress... So dress is important, Hijab will make you feel that the women is pious women.... I don't know why are you getting this simple point... hell on the plant earth.

    1)I wear clothes outside for comfort and warmth.
    2)My youth don't humiliate womankind, what are you talking about?
    3)You need to explain why sexual desire is a corruption in order to justify the Hijab results in a society without corruption. There is an also argument that children are better in a single parent home that duel parent home were one of the parents is forced to be there.
    4)Do you think that the dress options for women are hooker and hijab? There is nothing at all in between? Do you think that a hooker stops being a hooker if they put on more clothes? You seem to be asserting that simply dressing one way makes you that way, an incredibly superficial stance to take (which has been my point, all along).
    5)I dont see hijab wearing women as pious.
    dead one wrote: »
    I have given you answer, i don't why are you repeating it again and again....

    You haven't explained why the measures used to curb sexual desire aren't there to curb material desire.


  • #108
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    1)I wear clothes outside for comfort and warmth.
    Right, then why do you wear underware? I mean what is comfort in wearing underware. You wear clothes outside for comfort and warmth, Same way hijab gives comfort to women from evil eyes. You know every community has good and bad people, Hijab gives comfort to women when some bad lay on eyes on them.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    2)My youth don't humiliate womankind, what are you talking about?
    See, Mark Hamil, sex scenes are made by humiliating honor of woman, It doesn't matter whether woman who is performing this sex ritual know it or not and these movies scenes are watched by your youth. This is how you humiliate women kind.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    3)You need to explain why sexual desire is a corruption in order to justify the Hijab results in a society without corruption. There is an also argument that children are better in a single parent home that duel parent home were one of the parents is forced to be there.
    Sexual desire isn't a corruption unless you feed it through proper channel, it becomes corruption when you seek different chanels to feed it, Hijab is thing which prevent sexual desires from becoming corruption. See, it's simple if every woman/man, in every society, knows proper way to feed there desires then there would be no corruption in society. Hijab tells women their real status in society... You can't change mind of woman for corruption who knows why she is wearing hijab. There is how hijab creates a pure society..
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    4)Do you think that the dress options for women are hooker and hijab? There is nothing at all in between? Do you think that a hooker stops being a hooker if they put on more clothes? You seem to be asserting that simply dressing one way makes you that way, an incredibly superficial stance to take (which has been my point, all along).
    I don't think so, for me the only option for women is to cover their body in such way that she might not get attraction of other men. I mean no showing off, no cheating to other, no advertising, no displaying, no hypocrisy.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    5)I dont see hijab wearing women as pious.
    Why? Do you see women wearing Binkies and skirts as pious. Don't get me wrong i am serious.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You haven't explained why the measures used to curb sexual desire aren't there to curb material desire.
    The answer is western society, where it is very easy to have girl friend, You can date with them, you can make a new girl friend even it you don't like old, A society based on wishful thinking


  • #109
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Right, then why do you wear underware? I mean what is comfort in wearing underware. You wear clothes outside for comfort and warmth, Same way hijab gives comfort to women from evil eyes. You know every community has good and bad people, Hijab gives comfort to women when some bad lay on eyes on them.

    I also wear underwear for comfort. Commando is an acquired taste.
    dead one wrote: »
    See, Mark Hamil, sex scenes are made by humiliating honor of woman, It doesn't matter whether woman who is performing this sex ritual know it or not and these movies scenes are watched by your youth. This is how you humiliate women kind.

    Why do think sex is humiliating? Why do you think that is humiliating only for women? You do know their is porn specifically for women?
    dead one wrote: »
    Sexual desire isn't a corruption unless you feed it through proper channel, it becomes corruption when you seek different chanels to feed it, Hijab is thing which prevent sexual desires from becoming corruption. See, it's simple if every woman/man, in every society, knows proper way to feed there desires then there would be no corruption in society. Hijab tells women their real status in society... You can't change mind of woman for corruption who knows why she is wearing hijab. There is how hijab creates a pure society..

    Except the hijab doesn't prevent sexual desires from becoming a corruption, it just prevents sexual desires entirely. What sort of sexual desires are corrupting? What sorts aren't?
    dead one wrote: »
    I don't think so, for me the only option for women is to cover their body in such way that she might not get attraction of other men. I mean no showing off, no cheating to other, no advertising, no displaying, no hypocrisy.

    Why? If you are sexually attracted to someone (outside of a social situation), isn't that your problem? You have another problem in that the hijab doesn't stop "cheating to others" just because it stops physical observation. If the hijab does really encourage women's "real" presence in social interactions, then men can still be sexually attracted by that presence as sexual attraction isn't always, or only, based on physical attraction.
    dead one wrote: »
    Why? Do you see women wearing Binkies and skirts as pious. Don't get me wrong i am serious.

    No.
    dead one wrote: »
    The answer is western society, where it is very easy to have girl friend, You can date with them, you can make a new girl friend even it you don't like old, A society based on wishful thinking

    Thats not an answer to my question at al. Try again.


  • #110
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Why? If you are sexually attracted to someone (outside of a social situation), isn't that your problem? You have another problem in that the hijab doesn't stop "cheating to others" just because it stops physical observation.

    I'm especially curious about this, as a man who claims that it's the responsibility of women to dress in a way that stops him being sexually attracted to them is essentially saying that he would not be responsible for his actions in an environment where he will mingle with women not in modest garb/hijab. It would be difficult, in my view, to employ such a man in a mixed-gender office environment as you are leaving your open to being party to sexual harrassment cases.

    P.


  • #111
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I also wear underwear for comfort. Commando is an acquired taste.
    That's lie, Majority of men including me don't feel any comfort in underwear, Why didn't you mention it earlier even. I mean what is purpose of cloth under the cloth. Isn't it obstacle?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why do think sex is humiliating? Why do you think that is humiliating only for women? You do know their is porn specifically for women?
    Sex isn't humiliating unless it is advertise. You can see it in your movies... Sex isn't bad thing itself, it is bad when you do sex for business purpose... The price of this business, which your youth is paying in colleges universities/movies/cultures..... A destruction to family system. Father and mother don't get respect from their children in old age. These old fathers die many time in their lives when children don't give them time.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Except the hijab doesn't prevent sexual desires from becoming a corruption, it just prevents sexual desires entirely. What sort of sexual desires are corrupting? What sorts aren't?
    Hijab prevents sexual desires from corruption... It tells woman what is their real status in the society, It tells men how to respect women.... Sexual desires which makes you to lay eyes on someone else sister are corrupting desires... Desires which lead women to cheat their husband or desires which lead husbands to cheat their wives are corrupting desires. Desire which makes boys to have many girlfriend are corruption in sexual desires.... This corruption increase with increase in time.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why? If you are sexually attracted to someone (outside of a social situation),
    See, sex is matter of mind, what corrupts mind that is media... The media which your youth see... You won't sexually attracted to a woman who is covering her body parts. The women who expose their body parts to attract men, majority of men sexually attracted to them. If you are sexually attracted to someone then marry her through proper channel. That's not problem for me, The problem arises when one man/woman is sexually attracted to 10 men/women.. The situation destroy families by abandoning children. The same children do what they learn from their children.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You have another problem in that the hijab doesn't stop "cheating to others" just because it stops physical observation. If the hijab does really encourage women's "real" presence in social interactions, then men can still be sexually attracted by that presence as sexual attraction isn't always, or only, based on physical attraction.
    Like i said, sex is matter of mind, you don't think of sex you can't lead your whole without sex. You said physical presence... The media and your society have destroyed real presence of woman in the mind of youth. In islam, there is proper way of feeding of sexual desires, a proper system which prevent men and women from corruption... I mean, if you are reach at the age marriage, marry someone......
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    No.
    It means you don't see any women pious, But see every in prism of your desires... I mean sex dolls. Am i right... Is their any kind of woman which you see as pious
    Thats not an answer to my question at al. Try again.
    you didn't understand my advance approach, for the time being can you tell me difference between material desires and sexual desires... I mean, aren't sexual desires material in their nature...


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  • #112
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    I'm especially curious about this, as a man who claims that it's the responsibility of women to dress in a way that stops him being sexually attracted to them is essentially saying that he would not be responsible for his actions in an environment where he will mingle with women not in modest garb/hijab. It would be difficult, in my view, to employ such a man in a mixed-gender office environment as you are leaving your open to being party to sexual harrassment cases.
    P.
    hi oceanclub, practicing Muslims don't harass women... Its people, who have been brainwashing by media. You will find most cases of harassment happen to women who advertise their part to get attraction of men. The men who harrass women are same kind of men who have been grown by watching sex and porn movies in the media... The media /society and culture has corrupted their mind about status women in the society... They are liberal thinkers, who want open women... The old story, sex lies in mind what corrupts mind that how women present themselves in the society. If women present them in most beautiful manner Hijab then you would see zero cases of harassment in whole world. Mark hamil and you are on the naked side


  • #113
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    You will find most cases of harassment happen to women who advertise their part to get attraction of men.

    That's exactly the kind of attitude I mean. If you were working in an Irish office and a female member of your staff complained to you about sexual harrassment, you would instantly dismiss her complaints.

    P.


  • #114
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    That's exactly the kind of attitude I mean. If you were working in an Irish office and a female member of your staff complained to you about sexual harrassment, you would instantly dismiss her complaints.

    P.
    don't guess work, guess doesn't lead people to the truth, I work in an office surrounded by different types of females. Majority of females like my attitude and my simple heartedness. They want me to have relation with them but you know i am not that kind of guy inspired b$ theories of love. They have no problem with my thinking and they respect it and my thinking is very simple I want pious women / men on this planet earth. Every pious woman and man will support my thinking... Those will not support who like way of immodesty. A pious society will create pious generation. Ocean club, such society is very dangerous to your business.


  • #115
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Majority of females like my attitude and my simple heartedness. They want me to have relation with them but you know i am not that kind of guy inspired b$ theories of love.

    This doesn't sound like the delusions of a sexually-frustrated fundamentalist with issues about women at all.

    P.


  • #116
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    That's lie, Majority of men including me don't feel any comfort in underwear, Why didn't you mention it earlier even. I mean what is purpose of cloth under the cloth. Isn't it obstacle?

    Are you honestly accusing me of lying about whether or not I prefer to wear underwear? If the majority of men dont feel any comfort in wearing underwear, then why do they wear underwear? Its not like anyone would know if they didn't?
    dead one wrote: »
    Sex isn't humiliating unless it is advertise. You can see it in your movies... Sex isn't bad thing itself, it is bad when you do sex for business purpose...

    Why? If you dont want your sex life to involve any business purpose, then fine, thats up to you no-one should interfere. But what difference does it make to you if two other consenting adults involve business purposes in their sex? If everyone involved is consenting and informed, then where does the corruption or humiliation come from?
    dead one wrote: »
    Hijab prevents sexual desires from corruption... It tells woman what is their real status in the society, It tells men how to respect women.... Sexual desires which makes you to lay eyes on someone else sister are corrupting desires... Desires which lead women to cheat their husband or desires which lead husbands to cheat their wives are corrupting desires. Desire which makes boys to have many girlfriend are corruption in sexual desires.... This corruption increase with increase in time.

    But the hijab doesn't prevent these, it just requires them to be based on intellectual attraction instead of physical attraction which is still possible. The hijab isn't telling men how to respect women, if its women doing all the work.
    dead one wrote: »
    See, sex is matter of mind, what corrupts mind that is media... The media which your youth see... You won't sexually attracted to a woman who is covering her body parts. The women who expose their body parts to attract men, majority of men sexually attracted to them. If you are sexually attracted to someone then marry her through proper channel. That's not problem for me, The problem arises when one man/woman is sexually attracted to 10 men/women.. The situation destroy families by abandoning children. The same children do what they learn from their children.

    Well no, the problem you are describing is when someone abandons their family because of sexual attraction to someone else besides their partner. But the majority of people dont actually do that. And even if they did, divorce is an option (one that Islam allows, right?).
    Also, you have heard of phone sex lines? Phones lines you can ring up and talk to members of the opposite sex? You can be sexually attracted too someone even if you can't see their body parts.
    dead one wrote: »
    Like i said, sex is matter of mind, you don't think of sex you can't lead your whole without sex. You said physical presence... The media and your society have destroyed real presence of woman in the mind of youth. In islam, there is proper way of feeding of sexual desires, a proper system which prevent men and women from corruption... I mean, if you are reach at the age marriage, marry someone......

    Which just results in marriages entered because of people being impatient for sex. That doesn't sound very healthy to me.
    dead one wrote: »
    It means you don't see any women pious, But see every in prism of your desires... I mean sex dolls. Am i right... Is their any kind of woman which you see as pious

    Don't jump to conclusions, jut because I don't see some women as pious, doesn't mean I see them as sex dolls. This is another example of the hijab ultimately being very shallow. You can only see women as pious or sex dolls (hence you brought it up). Just because a woman is not wearing a hijab doesn't mean she is sexually available to me, even if I find her sexually attractive. She may be in a relationship with someone, or we may be in a situation were relationship advances may be inappropriate. Or she may not find me attractive. Either way I can respect the womans choices without having her to hide herself from me at the fear of arousing a biological response in me. That is true respect.
    dead one wrote: »
    I mean, aren't sexual desires material in their nature...

    And yet you don't propose hijab-like rules to prevent people from giving into their non-sexual material desires.


  • #117
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Are you honestly accusing me of lying about whether or not I prefer to wear underwear? If the majority of men dont feel any comfort in wearing underwear, then why do they wear underwear? Its not like anyone would know if they didn't?

    Maybe if you did, all the women in the office would be wanting the relations with you too.

    Don't forget the foil-wrapped zucchini.

    P.


  • #118
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    This doesn't sound like the delusions of a sexually-frustrated fundamentalist with issues about women at all.
    P.
    Hi oceanclub, sex becomes frustration when you see too much sex. That is what is happening you around in movies/dramas and culture. I ain't in control of my desires, where your kind is under control of desire... The members of your society are pure example of sexual - frustration. Each member of your society wants to display women so they look like sex doll and each woman wants to present herself as sex doll in the mind of liberal thinker like you. That's the real issue in your mind about status and height of women.


  • #119
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Are you honestly accusing me of lying about whether or not I prefer to wear underwear? If the majority of men dont feel any comfort in wearing underwear, then why do they wear underwear? Its not like anyone would know if they didn't?
    Ask to yourself, why are you asking to me... Why these double standard, you wear a piece cloth under the cloth and telling me, that hijab is obstacle.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why? If you dont want your sex life to involve any business purpose, then fine, thats up to you no-one should interfere. But what difference does it make to you if two other consenting adults involve business purposes in their sex? If everyone involved is consenting and informed, then where does the corruption or humiliation come from?
    hi mark hamil, i am talking about pure sex, not dirty sex., by pure sex i mean, the sex between you and your wife... Right... and i ain't getting your point... could you please explain it in simple words. no one would never advertise sex which he does with his wife, would he?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    But the hijab doesn't prevent these, it just requires them to be based on intellectual attraction instead of physical attraction which is still possible. The hijab isn't telling men how to respect women, if its women doing all the work.
    See, Hijab is long term planning, Hijab doesn't prevent these for one day or two week or or month.... It is prevents a generation... i mean if mothers of one generation with hijab, tell their children about height and status of women in a society... then you would see next generation fullfilling the objectives....Society wouldn't suffer with hollowness/shallowness. You're not listening my word but i am very sure, your children or grand children will think and understand what i am saying with my poor English. The generation of ocean club with understand after one century.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Well no, the problem you are describing is when someone abandons their family because of sexual attraction to someone else besides their partner. But the majority of people dont actually do that. And even if they did, divorce is an option (one that Islam allows, right?).
    Also, you have heard of phone sex lines? Phones lines you can ring up and talk to members of the opposite sex? You can be sexually attracted too someone even if you can't see their body parts.
    I am telling you philosophy but you aren't getting.... Sex is always in mind, it has nothing to do with you body, You don't make your mind about sex, your d!ck won't stand in your whole life. See, don't get me wrong... I am using very plain to convey message. What makes mind to have sexually attraction toward too many females... That's presentation of women in society, women presenting themselves as sex dolls. The mind of your generation has been watching women as sexdoll since beginning so they have too much sexual attraction in their minds about women. i give you my example, i work in office, i never lay an eye on woman whereas there are some kind of liberal thinker like you and ocean club who always lay eye on woman. When a woman with tight dress arrives, they start seeing her. That's the corruption in their mind. They have corrupted their mind by watching and listening stupid theories of love.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Which just results in marriages entered because of people being impatient for sex. That doesn't sound very healthy to me.
    Yes i get you point, It seems STD sounds very healthy to you.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Don't jump to conclusions, jut because I don't see some women as pious,
    right, what is piousness of a woman in your mind, I mean, who are pious woman according to your mind and your theories
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    And yet you don't propose hijab-like rules to prevent people from giving into their non-sexual material desires.
    If you don't propose signal like hijab to you generation. Then there will always accident in your society..... the unseen accident from which you society is suffering


  • #120
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Ask to yourself, why are you asking to me... Why these double standard, you wear a piece cloth under the cloth and telling me, that hijab is obstacle.

    You are the one who brought up underwear. if you could just answer simple questions, then we wouldn't get dragged onto tangents so far away from the point that you can't remember what the point was. Go back to post 105 and try addressing my original point.
    dead one wrote: »
    hi mark hamil, i am talking about pure sex, not dirty sex., by pure sex i mean, the sex between you and your wife... Right... and i ain't getting your point... could you please explain it in simple words. no one would never advertise sex which he does with his wife, would he?

    My point is that what you call pure and what you call dirty is entirely subjective opinion. Not everyone believes that sex is something that can only happen between spouses. To many people, sex is simply a very enjoyable physical act. And as long as all parties involved are consenting and informed, then what difference does it make to anyone else what they do?
    dead one wrote: »
    See, Hijab is long term planning, Hijab doesn't prevent these for one day or two week or or month.... It is prevents a generation... i mean if mothers of one generation with hijab, tell their children about height and status of women in a society... then you would see next generation fullfilling the objectives....Society wouldn't suffer with hollowness/shallowness. You're not listening my word but i am very sure, your children or grand children will think and understand what i am saying with my poor English. The generation of ocean club with understand after one century.

    Actually, this just undermines the effectiveness of the hijab. If the hijab really did educate men on the true value and place of women in society, then eventually that society would no longer need the hijab. Eventually all training wheels must come off. But this isn't the case, because the hijab isn't telling anyone about women's true place in society, it telling everyone that it is womens true place in society.
    dead one wrote: »
    I am telling you philosophy but you aren't getting.... Sex is always in mind, it has nothing to do with you body, You don't make your mind about sex, your d!ck won't stand in your whole life. See, don't get me wrong... I am using very plain to convey message. What makes mind to have sexually attraction toward too many females... That's presentation of women in society, women presenting themselves as sex dolls. The mind of your generation has been watching women as sexdoll since beginning so they have too much sexual attraction in their minds about women. i give you my example, i work in office, i never lay an eye on woman whereas there are some kind of liberal thinker like you and ocean club who always lay eye on woman. When a woman with tight dress arrives, they start seeing her. That's the corruption in their mind. They have corrupted their mind by watching and listening stupid theories of love.

    Sex is both mind and body. You can cause an erection with your mind (imagination) but they can also occur spontaneously, even if their is nothing on your mind.
    If it was only western society that presented women as "sexdolls", then islamic society wouldn't need the hijab to present it, would it? Or are you still under the opinion that women have two settings - hijab and sexdoll?
    dead one wrote: »
    Yes i get you point, It seems STD sounds very healthy to you.

    Again with the false dichotomies. Just because someone doesn't believe they need to wait for marriage to have sex doesn't mean they will get STDs. It is possible to have many many sexual partners without catching anything, as long as you are aware of the dangers and take precautions.
    dead one wrote: »
    right, what is piousness of a woman in your mind, I mean, who are pious woman according to your mind and your theories

    Women can only be pious in religions that have equal status for women. Religions that have arbitrary rules for women and which explicitly prevent women from being in the hierarchy don't produce pious women, they produce indoctrinated women who don't even understand their own religion.
    dead one wrote: »
    If you don't propose signal like hijab to you generation. Then there will always accident in your society..... the unseen accident from which you society is suffering

    Not an answer. Please try again.


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  • #121
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    I ain't in control of my desires, where your kind is under control of desire...

    I presume "your kind" means non-Muslims. So here you are claiming that Muslims aren't in control of their desires, while non-Muslims are.

    An astonishing claim and one that Islamophobes could seize on as "proof" that women are in danger from Muslims.

    Incidentally, a plea that one is not in control of one's desires would be not be looked on favourably by either a judge or an employment tribunal.

    P.


  • #122
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    I presume "your kind" means non-Muslims. So here you are claiming that Muslims aren't in control of their desires, while non-Muslims are.
    you presume not, By "your kind" I mean people who advertise and support advertisement of women. You are one of them, You have problem with a woman who is covering her parts, on the other hand, you don't have problem with a woman who dances and exposes her parts. By Muslims I mean practicing Muslim not hypocrites like "Sonia khan". Ocean Club, clear your prejudice it will benefit you in future. You are doing a great Job in this thread.
    oceanclub wrote: »
    An astonishing claim and one that Islamophobes could seize on as "proof" that women are in danger from Muslims.
    You media has brainwashed common folks about Islam . That's not fault of "your kind" who take faith of leap in the lies of media. The women arent in danger in muslim areas. Because they are living in family system which protect them.... The real danger to woman kind is from secular society. A woman, living in secular society, doesn't know how many seeds of men she is containing in her belly.

    .P


  • #123
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    bluewolf
    You have come this thread only to thank people, why don't share you point... So that i can see what you've got. Are you afraid of me?


  • #124
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You are the one who brought up underwear. if you could just answer simple questions, then we wouldn't get dragged onto tangents so far away from the point that you can't remember what the point was. Go back to post 105 and try addressing my original point.
    I brought the underwear because you hide it.... again please answer, You wear a cloth under the cloth, then what's wrong with hijab, I mean if woman wear a cloth over the cloth. Why these double standard against women.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    To many people, sex is simply a very enjoyable physical act.
    You society is paying cost of this enjoyment. In western society, today, children don't get the tender loving care from their fathers.mother, This result destruction to family system. The father and mother both work outside their home at different places. A free and uninhibited atmosphere prevails at both work places. So, at times the views and interests of the couple begin to diverge and the marriage undergoes a strain. Illegitimate extra marital relation begin to develop and the marriage breaks down. Divorce drives the final nail into the coffin. The home is destroyed!.... The price of all this enjoyment....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Actually, this just undermines the effectiveness of the hijab. If the hijab really did educate men on the true value and place of women in society, then eventually that society would no longer need the hijab. Eventually all training wheels must come off. But this isn't the case, because the hijab isn't telling anyone about women's true place in society, it telling everyone that it is womens true place in society.
    I am talking about practical where as you're sending empty arrows in the sky... If a society doesn't need hijab, then western society is pure example for this... let's talk about it... How does westren society cover dignity and honor of woman. Are women, who advertise their parts, doing a great job. Can a woman work for 8/6 hour in offices.... It's job of men to feed women....Women aren't responsible to feed men..
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Sex is both mind and body. You can cause an erection with your mind (imagination) but they can also occur spontaneously, even if their is nothing on your mind.
    Sex starts from mind. then there comes the body, you can't blame body at all... Minds get corruptions with increase in time... What corrupts mind,that is the presentation and behavior of women in a society, Your youth(male/females) watch woman as sex doll in media/porn movies/sex scenes... So what else would you expect from them.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    If it was only western society that presented women as "sexdolls", then islamic society wouldn't need the hijab to present it, would it? Or are you still under the opinion that women have two settings - hijab and sexdoll?
    i believe only one setting natural setting for women, that is hijab. I don't believe in any artificial/shallow setting. I see, woman as relation of pity and Chasity and don't see any women as relation of sex. You don't know at what stage am I. The stage to which very few reach. Western society has done a great job by destroying status of women in minds of youth. Islamic society has uplifted the status of women.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Again with the false dichotomies. Just because someone doesn't believe they need to wait for marriage to have sex doesn't mean they will get STDs. It is possible to have many many sexual partners without catching anything, as long as you are aware of the dangers and take precautions.
    Why makes you think you will eat fruits without suffering. Resisting of pleasure is real life, It is very enjoying able to resist pleasure rather to be slave of them. I am sure you wouldn't get point... To take illusion as reality isn't enjoyable... To point illusion as illusion is enjoyable.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Women can only be pious in religions that have equal status for women. Religions that have arbitrary rules for women and which explicitly prevent women from being in the hierarchy don't produce pious women, they produce indoctrinated women who don't even understand their own religion.
    Is hijab indoctrination, if it is then women as sex dolls what is that .... Who is brainwashing women about their body and mind....I tell you real indoctrination
    You see this below image
    1303673588.jpg&constrain=1&w=190&h=190
    The woman is brainwashed. Why she is cheating other by displaying her in artificial manner... Isn't it indoctrination... You society, media/sex scenes has brainwashed her... She has taken illusion as reality... She thinks she would look great by cheating other.... She thinks, by displaying her in artificial manner, she will look great, Men like Mark Hamil and ocean club would praise her shallow beauty. Why is there element of showing off in her mind.
    I know you can't answer this.


  • #125
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    I brought the underwear because you hide it.... again please answer, You wear a cloth under the cloth, then what's wrong with hijab, I mean if woman wear a cloth over the cloth. Why these double standard against women.

    Underwear and hijab do not cover to the same extent, are not worn for the same reasons and one is worn under clothes, out of sight while one is worn explicitly over clothes in order to obstruct sight. I have responded to underwear for the last time. Go back to post 105 and address my original point and stop trying, so inexpertly, to change the subject.
    dead one wrote: »
    You society is paying cost of this enjoyment. In western society, today, children don't get the tender loving care from their fathers.mother, This result destruction to family system. The father and mother both work outside their home at different places. A free and uninhibited atmosphere prevails at both work places. So, at times the views and interests of the couple begin to diverge and the marriage undergoes a strain. Illegitimate extra marital relation begin to develop and the marriage breaks down. Divorce drives the final nail into the coffin. The home is destroyed!.... The price of all this enjoyment....

    Children can get tender loving care from parents, regardless of whether the parents are still together. Parents both working outside of home is entirely a separate issue from sex (assuming its an issue). Divorce does not always arise because of extra marital affairs. Divorce exists in Islam, so presumably those muslims who get divorced are not guilty of adultery, otherwise they would have to be punished for that when they get divorced.

    These sort of claims you come out with need evidence,because they contradict reality (western society isn't falling apart at the seams).
    dead one wrote: »
    I am talking about practical where as you're sending empty arrows in the sky... If a society doesn't need hijab, then western society is pure example for this... let's talk about it... How does westren society cover dignity and honor of woman. Are women, who advertise their parts, doing a great job. Can a woman work for 8/6 hour in offices.... It's job of men to feed women....Women aren't responsible to feed men..

    You are bringing two different issues together here as if they are one. Women working has nothing to do with women appearing sexually available to the opposite sex. I'd imagine that most of women who would support hijab would want to work themselves.
    dead one wrote: »
    Sex starts from mind. then there comes the body, you can't blame body at all... Minds get corruptions with increase in time... What corrupts mind,that is the presentation and behavior of women in a society, Your youth(male/females) watch woman as sex doll in media/porn movies/sex scenes... So what else would you expect from them

    Its not about blame. Whether its from the mind or the body, sex is a natural, enjoyable act that we are biologically inclined to want to do and which is perfectly safe, as long as all involved parties are consenting and informed. Its got nothing to do with media, people had sex long before the invention of the television.
    dead one wrote: »
    i believe only one setting natural setting for women, that is hijab. I don't believe in any artificial/shallow setting. I see, woman as relation of pity and Chasity and don't see any women as relation of sex. You don't know at what stage am I. The stage to which very few reach. Western society has done a great job by destroying status of women in minds of youth. Islamic society has uplifted the status of women.

    If you don't see women as relation of sex, then what difference does it make what they wear?
    dead one wrote: »
    Why makes you think you will eat fruits without suffering. Resisting of pleasure is real life, It is very enjoying able to resist pleasure rather to be slave of them. I am sure you wouldn't get point... To take illusion as reality isn't enjoyable... To point illusion as illusion is enjoyable.

    How is it more enjoyable to resist pleasure than to have it? Why is resistance of pleasure real life? Where is the illusion in having a consensual and informed sexual relationship with someone?
    dead one wrote: »
    Is hijab indoctrination, if it is then women as sex dolls what is that ....

    Sex doll isn't the only other position women can be in besides hijab, not by a long shot.
    Its funny, even after 100 odd posts, you are still proving my initial point. The hijab is incredibly shallow. It teaches that women without it are, by default, sex dolls. Its teaches that if a woman is not wearing a headscarf, then she is automatically putting herself on display and is trying to incite men to cheat on their spouses. That is not a healthy or unbiased view to have.
    dead one wrote: »
    Who is brainwashing women about their body and mind....I tell you real indoctrination
    You see this below image

    The woman is brainwashed. Why she is cheating other by displaying her in artificial manner... Isn't it indoctrination... You society, media/sex scenes has brainwashed her... She has taken illusion as reality... She thinks she would look great by cheating other.... She thinks, by displaying her in artificial manner, she will look great, Men like Mark Hamil and ocean club would praise her shallow beauty. Why is there element of showing off in her mind.

    Even burkha wearing women wear make up, so what's the problem? Many women wear make-up to make themselves feel better about themselves, or because they feel clean and proper with it (don't you wash your face and brush your hair?). Even if muslim women only wear make-up for their husbands, is that not still presenting an illusion?
    dead one wrote: »
    "You don't know at what stage am I. The stage to which very few reach."

    "I am sure you wouldn't get point"

    "I know you can't answer this."

    Less of this sort of thing please. Its pointless, arrogant and only makes you look worse when I inevitably completely debunk what you are saying.


  • #126
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    Divorce drives the final nail into the coffin

    As I mentioned earlier, it's much harder to obtain a divorce in Ireland (where you have to wait five years) than in an Islamic country (where it can be done via text message).

    Perhaps you can address this short point and avoid another 10 paragraphs about how Western women are making you horny.

    P


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  • #127
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Let's discuss the topic and not people. Thanks and final request on this.


  • #128
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    oceanclub wrote: »
    As I mentioned earlier, it's much harder to obtain a divorce in Ireland (where you have to wait five years) than in an Islamic country (where it can be done via text

    P

    actually it is a bit more complex then just that. It would be like me saying all you need to get divorced in Ireland is to sign a bit of paper.


  • #129
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    As I mentioned earlier, it's much harder to obtain a divorce in Ireland (where you have to wait five years) than in an Islamic country (where it can be done via text message).

    Perhaps you can address this short point and avoid another 10 paragraphs about how Western women are making you horny.
    P
    Ask to yourself, Why are you horny???? I mean what makes you too support nakedness/immodesty of women. Think about answer you'll get the point... When ever i think of you, A huge sex freak comes in mind?... That's not my fault, It's your post which are creating your picture in my mind...


  • #130
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Let's discuss the topic and not people. Thanks and final request on this.
    Hobbes the topic is going very well without you.... i have lost my temperament. Let ocean club, Mark Hamill and all atheists to discuss me... I don't have problem with it. See i don't feel any humiliation in their hollow words.... Warn me whenever, I break rule, don't warn any body else who is discussing with me or discussing me. Please, this is request


  • #131
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Hobbes wrote: »
    actually it is a bit more complex then just that. It would be like me saying all you need to get divorced in Ireland is to sign a bit of paper.

    What is this "complexity"? To initiate a divorce, the man simply has to say the triple talaq, correct? There are no required preconditions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_talaq


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/27/tajik-divorce-by-text-mes_n_854438.html
    Taloq taloq taloq," it read – divorce, divorce, divorce.

    With those words, Dodobayeva found herself among the growing ranks of women in predominantly Muslim Tajikistan whose husbands have used mobile phones to issue the "triple taloq," an Islamic ritual in which men can end a marriage by reciting the word for divorce three times.

    Dodobayeva immediately called her husband, who was working in Russia as a laborer, for an explanation.

    "He told me not to call him any more," Dodobayeva said, "because now he has a new family."

    [...]
    [In 2003] an Islamic court in Malaysia ruled that husbands could initiate divorces by text message. The decision prompted a flurry of animated public discussions and much soul-searching about how ancient Islamic customs could be squared with fast-developing, often impersonal, forms of communication.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce_law_around_the_world#Ireland
    Laws to give effect to the new position came into effect in 1997, making divorce possible for parties who are separated for four out of the preceding five years. Divorce will not be granted in the Republic of Ireland for any other criteria. It is more difficult to obtain a divorce in Ireland than in other jurisdictions

    P.


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  • #132
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    When ever i think of you, A huge sex freak comes in mind

    Whatever turns you on.

    P.


  • #133
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    oceanclub wrote: »
    What is this "complexity"? To initiate a divorce, the man simply has to say the triple talaq, correct? There are no required preconditions?

    Have a read of the link you posted in more detail. It isn't that simple. You can't just say it three times in one go and bingo you are out of the relationship.

    It has to be declared over a period of time and also intervention can be used during that time. Also the intent has to be clear. For example if they texted "talaq, talaq" that would not be counted and could possibly negate the process.

    Some countries do not even allow the use of texting in this. The very story you link to they have banned texting in that country as a form of divorce.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/11/tajikistan-bans-divorce-b_n_847582.html


  • #134
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Have a read of the link you posted in more detail. It isn't that simple. You can't just say it three times in one go and bingo you are out of the relationship.

    It has to be declared over a period of time and also intervention can be used during that time.

    The waiting time is 3 months - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah - not that arduous compared to a wait of 4 years.
    Also the intent has to be clear. For example if they texted "talaq, talaq" that would not be counted and could possibly negate the process.

    Neither does getting the spelling of three words correct seem particular arduous to me.

    The fact that divorce in Ireland is still harder to obtain than under Sharia law is still correct.

    P.


  • #135
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    oceanclub wrote: »
    The waiting time is 3 months - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah - not that arduous compared to a wait of 4 years.

    Actually that is the 3 months *after* the final declaration. That is to make sure that if she has a child in that time you know who is the father.
    Neither does getting the spelling of three words correct seem particular arduous to me.

    That may factor in as well. As I understand it, if there is anything in the message that causes it to be ambigous negates the step.
    The fact that divorce in Ireland is still harder to obtain than under Sharia law is still correct.

    P.

    I don't think I was disputing that, only disputing that somehow divorce was being portrayed as tappa-tappa-tappa on your mobile phone and you are free.


  • #136
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    oceanclub wrote: »
    I presume "your kind" means non-Muslims. So here you are claiming that Muslims aren't in control of their desires, while non-Muslims are.

    An astonishing claim and one that Islamophobes could seize on as "proof" that women are in danger from Muslims.

    Incidentally, a plea that one is not in control of one's desires would be not be looked on favourably by either a judge or an employment tribunal.

    P.
    dead one wrote: »
    you presume not, By "your kind" I mean people who advertise and support advertisement of women. You are one of them, You have problem with a woman who is covering her parts, on the other hand, you don't have problem with a woman who dances and exposes her parts. By Muslims I mean practicing Muslim not hypocrites like "Sonia khan". Ocean Club, clear your prejudice it will benefit you in future. You are doing a great Job in this thread.

    You media has brainwashed common folks about Islam . That's not fault of "your kind" who take faith of leap in the lies of media. The women arent in danger in muslim areas. Because they are living in family system which protect them.... The real danger to woman kind is from secular society. A woman, living in secular society, doesn't know how many seeds of men she is containing in her belly.

    .P
    I don't think you understand western society very well, a fair proportion of western society, male and female, either ignore or are not supportive of how sexualised women can be in western media, and don't base their lives on that.

    I certainly don't. Your description of non Muslim women would horrify my male partner if he were to think of me that way.


    dead one wrote: »
    bluewolf
    You have come this thread only to thank people, why don't share you point... So that i can see what you've got. Are you afraid of me?

    What I'm afraid of when I come across people like you, is how blinkered your view is and how limited it is, as well as how unwilling you appear to be to learn about the society you live in, to the point that you can't communicate well with that society.
    dead one wrote: »
    I brought the underwear because you hide it.... again please answer, You wear a cloth under the cloth, then what's wrong with hijab, I mean if woman wear a cloth over the cloth. Why these double standard against women.

    What about those Muslim women who hide cloth under the cloth of a hiqab in the form of the skullcap type things they wear?
    You society is paying cost of this enjoyment. In western society, today, children don't get the tender loving care from their fathers.mother, This result destruction to family system. The father and mother both work outside their home at different places. A free and uninhibited atmosphere prevails at both work places.

    Actually if you looked at CSO statistics you'd find that there is a substantial amount of the adult population who stay at home looking after children (both male and female) all day and providing that care and guidance.

    Workplaces are very well disciplined in terms of what is or is not acceptable behaviour and there are laws in place to control/regulate that.

    And certainly several Islamic societies encourage women to work if I am not mistaken?
    Can a woman work for 8/6 hour in offices.... It's job of men to feed women....Women aren't responsible to feed men..
    What can you back that up with? Why can't women work those hours? I regularly work 60 hour weeks, and my Muslim doctor who wears hiqab works at least that, but has a thriving family life and very happy children.


  • #137
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Stheno wrote: »
    I don't think you understand western society very well, a fair proportion of western society, male and female, either ignore or are not supportive of how sexualised women can be in western media, and don't base their lives on that.
    See Stheno, You say, i don't understand western society very well... What i am telling is truth... """Western media/soceity claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.""... They have made women as an object not a relation... They have insulted mothers/sisters/wives... They've ruined family system... Now tell How i am wrong about western society...
    Stheno wrote: »
    I certainly don't. Your description of non Muslim women would horrify my male partner if he were to think of me that way.
    Your male parter would no need to horrify as i think he is member of same society...
    Stheno wrote: »
    What I'm afraid of when I come across people like you, is how blinkered your view is and how limited it is, as well as how unwilling you appear to be to learn about the society you live in, to the point that you can't communicate well with that society.
    You need not to afraid of me, sister. I see you as human not as an object.... You need to afraid from men of your society, who see women as an object of desires... The media has been brainwashing your children since beginning..... USA is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. See, people like me who see women in form relation don't live in USA.... It's liberal mindset like ocean club who support nakedness of women..
    Stheno wrote: »
    What about those Muslim women who hide cloth under the cloth of a hiqab in the form of the skullcap type things they wear?
    The beauty of women doesn't lie in her display but it lies in her modesty/piousness.
    Stheno wrote: »
    What can you back that up with? Why can't women work those hours? I regularly work 60 hour weeks, and my Muslim doctor who wears hiqab works at least that, but has a thriving family life and very happy children.
    See, it's simple...A woman does not possess the physical attributes of a man. The tasks outside the home require the use of physical force and raw muscular strength. So it is duty of man to provide her wife every necessities of life... If he doesn't provide then he is criminal.... Wife isn't resposbile to cook/feed the children of her husband...


  • #138
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    You know 'dead one' I'm starting to wonder whether your real or just taking the p**s? are you a troll,just pulling legs for amusement? your like a sketch,like a caricature,a satire, a cartoon even, are you serious?....


  • #139
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    You need not to afraid of me, sister. I see you as human not as an object....

    But only if she is adhering to hijab, right? Cause if she's not wearing a head scarf, then she is a concubine or a mistress, like all non-hijab-adhering women in the west inherently are, right?
    dead one wrote: »
    USA is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. See, people like me who see women in form relation don't live in USA.... It's liberal mindset like ocean club who support nakedness of women..

    Nothing at all to do with how in some muslim countries, rape victims are imprisoned for adultery and/or made to marry their rapists.
    dead one wrote: »
    See, it's simple...A woman does not possess the physical attributes of a man. The tasks outside the home require the use of physical force and raw muscular strength. So it is duty of man to provide her wife every necessities of life... If he doesn't provide then he is criminal.... Wife isn't resposbile to cook/feed the children of her husband...

    First of all, tell that to the likes of Aisling Daly or Katy Taylor. Secondly, very few jobs these days actually require massive amounts of physical strength. I'm pretty sure accountants, lawyers, teachers etc etc don't need to be able to bench press their own body weight to do their job well.


  • #140
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    But only if she is adhering to hijab, right? Cause if she's not wearing a head scarf, then she is a concubine or a mistress, like all non-hijab-adhering women in the west inherently are, right?
    That's what you're assuming. Hijab is a proper dress to preserve modesty of women in a society... It's tells men/generations about height and status of women in a society. It prevents body of women from misusing... Why western are doing business at body of women... They are selling women in the name of their business... I mean it's very common in westren media to use women as a tool to advertise their products... They use parts of women as a trap to sell their products... It's pure cheating.... Why if all women wear hijab, don't allow other men to misuse their body???? I mean is there any problem?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Nothing at all to do with how in some muslim countries, rape victims are imprisoned for adultery and/or made to marry their rapists.
    what this has to do with hijab?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    First of all, tell that to the likes of Aisling Daly or Katy Taylor. Secondly, very few jobs these days actually require massive amounts of physical strength. I'm pretty sure accountants, lawyers, teachers etc etc don't need to be able to bench press their own body weight to do their job well.
    Honestly tell me, will you allow your daughter to suffer?... I mean it's real pain for a women to work 8 hours--- and what about children in these wasted 8 hours... both wife and husband don't know.... The husband have relation with some other women and wife has relation with some other men... Do you call it family?


  • #141
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    Honestly tell me, will you allow your daughter to suffer?... I mean it's real pain for a women to work 8 hours---

    Don't you claim to work in a multi-office environment? Does this mean that all the women you work with are suffering? What if a woman approached you for a job?

    P.


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  • #142
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    That's what you're assuming

    No, its what you are saying. Without knowing anything else about western women, you declare them as mistresses or concubines simply for not adhering to hijab.
    dead one wrote: »
    Hijab is a proper dress to preserve modesty of women in a society... It's tells men/generations about height and status of women in a society. It prevents body of women from misusing... Why western are doing business at body of women... They are selling women in the name of their business... I mean it's very common in westren media to use women as a tool to advertise their products... They use parts of women as a trap to sell their products... It's pure cheating.... Why if all women wear hijab, don't allow other men to misuse their body???? I mean is there any problem?

    Why does this apply to women and not men?
    dead one wrote: »
    what this has to do with hijab?

    It has to do with your point about the USA having a high rate of rape.
    dead one wrote: »
    Honestly tell me, will you allow your daughter to suffer?... I mean it's real pain for a women to work 8 hours---

    So, should I keep her out of school too? Do you suffer in your work?
    dead one wrote: »
    and what about children in these wasted 8 hours... both wife and husband don't know....

    Not all couples have kids. What if the man stayed at home and the woman worked?
    dead one wrote: »
    The husband have relation with some other women and wife has relation with some other men... Do you call it family?

    People can cheat on their spouses whether they are spending 8 hours away from them at work, or 8 hours away from them at home while their spouse works. Work is far from the only place were people can encounter members of the opposite sex.


  • #143
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Don't you claim to work in a multi-office environment? Does this mean that all the women you work with are suffering? What if a woman approached you for a job?
    P.
    Off course I work in a multi-office environment? A lot of women don't feel good in this multi-office environment.... I can see it from their expression...... I mean there is real pain/frustration in their lives... Shame on such men who send their woman to work and their woman folks feed them... Shame on men who support such act of cruelty. By no mean a good person (christian/jew/athiest) will send his daughter/wife outside home for a work... Oh God save us all...
    oceanclub wrote: »
    What if a woman approached you for a job?
    I am a labor, women don't approach me for a job and i don't approach to women for a job...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    No, its what you are saying. Without knowing anything else about western women, you declare them as mistresses or concubines simply for not adhering to hijab.
    It's you who are assuming it... What do you think, by this you will hide what you had done to woman... your society hasn't not uplifted status of women, it has made them a decoration piece... You can see it in your movies/daramas... Women with immodest dresses are hired in your media to attract customers.. What is wrong if all of these women wear modest dress (hijab) and no one can cheat them... What is wrong if there are no strip clubs... What is wrong if there are no sex scenes in movies.... What is wrong if women become pious...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why does this apply to women and not men?
    men are using misusing body of women... Is there any woman who misuse or advertise body of a man... Are parts of men being used to attract women... No, in lot of tv commercial/program/movies/sex scenes... Women body is being used for business purpose...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    It has to do with your point about the USA having a high rate of rape.
    I gave you general example of most advance country, USA... Where education is very common... and you picked up two random cases... Now what it has to do with my USA example... I mean how are you comparing these two random cases with a society like USA....In Afghanistan and morocco, literacy is very low as compared to USA....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    So, should I keep her out of school too? Do you suffer in your work?
    You can send her to school, a school whose purpose is to educate children about their body and mind not to brainwash them about their mind and body....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Do you suffer in your work?
    Off course i do, It's a real pain to work for 8 hours... Why would i make my wife/daughter/sister suffer. I am working for my family(father/mother) not for myself... If it is up to me, i would need no job...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Not all couples have kids. What if the man stayed at home and the woman worked?
    Shame on such men and their powers
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    People can cheat on their spouses whether they are spending 8 hours away from them at work, or 8 hours away from them at home while their spouse works. Work is far from the only place were people can encounter members of the opposite sex.
    What makes people to cheat each other?


  • #144
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    It's you who are assuming it...

    No, you said it:
    "Western media/soceity claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies",
    and then you say it in this very post:
    "What do you think, by this you will hide what you had done to woman... your society hasn't not uplifted status of women, it has made them a decoration piece... "
    dead one wrote: »
    You can see it in your movies/daramas... Women with immodest dresses are hired in your media to attract customers.. What is wrong if all of these women wear modest dress (hijab) and no one can cheat them... What is wrong if there are no strip clubs... What is wrong if there are no sex scenes in movies.... What is wrong if women become pious...

    What is wrong if they don't? Why is it that it only applies to women and not men? Why is it a women's fault if you find her attractive?
    dead one wrote: »
    men are using misusing body of women... Is there any woman who misuse or advertise body of a man... Are parts of men being used to attract women... No, in lot of tv commercial/program/movies/sex scenes... Women body is being used for business purpose...

    Diet coke break anyone?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrE1VMxzoE

    Men are used to sell stuff as much as women. Do you think boy bands do so well because of their musical talent?
    dead one wrote: »
    I gave you general example of most advance country, USA... Where education is very common... and you picked up two random cases... Now what it has to do with my USA example... I mean how are you comparing these two random cases with a society like USA....In Afghanistan and morocco, literacy is very low as compared to USA....

    My point is that in a lot of countries, rape victims are punished so many rape cases will go unreported, so comparing America to them is not going to tell us very much.
    dead one wrote: »
    You can send her to school, a school whose purpose is to educate children about their body and mind not to brainwash them about their mind and body....

    But school is hard and she will suffer. Which is apparently reason enough to prevent her seeking a job.
    dead one wrote: »
    Off course i do, It's a real pain to work for 8 hours... Why would i make my wife/daughter/sister suffer. I am working for my family(father/mother) not for myself... If it is up to me, i would need no job...

    For many people, work is not suffering. Many people enjoy their job and get fulfilled by it. Maybe you need a new line of work?
    dead one wrote: »
    Shame on such men and their powers

    :confused: Powers? What are you talking about?
    dead one wrote: »
    What makes people to cheat each other?

    There are several reasons I'm sure. What difference does it make. Do you think any of the reason to cheat only apply in a work environment?


  • #145
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    dead one wrote: »
    Off course I work in a multi-office environment? A lot of women don't feel good in this multi-office environment.... I can see it from their expression...... I mean there is real pain/frustration in their lives... Shame on such men who send their woman to work and their woman folks feed them... Shame on men who support such act of cruelty. By no mean a good person (christian/jew/athiest) will send his daughter/wife outside home for a work... Oh God save us all...

    I am a labor, women don't approach me for a job and i don't approach to women for a job...

    I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. I spent some time in Malaysia years ago and there were Muslim women working in all manner of jobs, in offices, shops, hospitals..you name it. There are plenty of Muslim women leading successful careers in Ireland too. The idea that a woman only works because her husband or father sends her out to work is frankly ludicrous. Wasn't the Prophet Muhammed's first wife a businesswoman (and a successful one too)?


  • #146
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Even a theocratic country like Iran has 60% women attending third level education, the highest in the world, women doing sciences is also the highest in the world.

    How could you live in Ireland and have such a ridiculously outdated view of women, Deadone?


  • #147
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    No, you said it:
    "Western media/soceity claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies",
    off course I said it, doesn't it mean the statement apply to all westren women... there are muslim women living in west... Does it mean i also include them... your point is very weak.... Are you saying that there are no concubines or mistress in western society... Or your society hasn't made women as "society butterflies"---
    watch this video and see the indoctrination process
    http://vimeo.com/12030156
    The poor woman, in the video, thinks, she will get more respect, if she uses her body as mean to control nerve of hungry men...Isn't it proof of the above statement... What a butterfly...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    What is wrong if they don't? Why is it that it only applies to woman and not men? Why is it a women's fault if you find her attractive?
    Are you justifying advertising of women... The wrong is in your western society... Where one women have relation with 10 men... Where infants are killed in bellies... A society on desires.... A society purely based on wishful thinking....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Why is it a women's fault if you find her attractive?
    If a woman is attractive naturally then offcoure it's not her fault... I have no problem with it.... I have problem with women who cheat other to become attractive.... I mean by doing makeup / surgery etc... and you will note majority of women living in your society cheat other people in order to become attractive ... Now tell how am i wrong..... What this process of indoctrination... Why doesn't she think... The beauty lies in character.... If a black women has a strong character, If she doesn't cheat other then she is beautifully all the wasted mistress/celebrities of world... Her blackness isn't ruler to measure her beauty but it is her character.....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Diet coke break anyone?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdrE1VMxzoE

    Men are used to sell stuff as much as women. Do you think boy bands do so well because of their musical talent?
    have you noticed, there is only one man in the this commercial, majority are women...So how commercial is advertising the man... This is also cheating-- Cheating common folk about the product... Do you think it is good to cheat other by making such commercials... The commercial is of 45 sec... and you will note, in 30 sec only women were shown... Such a shame...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    My point is that in a lot of countries, rape victims are punished so many rape cases will go unreported, so comparing America to them is not going to tell us very much.
    If that is case then in America there are lot of unregistered cases.. what about them...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    But school is hard and she will suffer. Which is apparently reason enough to prevent her seeking a job.
    School is a thing where children learn... There is difference between learning and working..... and timing of school and of work are different... there is lot of difference between timing of school and work...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    For many people, work is not suffering. Many people enjoy their job and get fulfilled by it. Maybe you need a new line of work?
    you statement is true only in short term... In long term, work become a suffering....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    :confused: Powers? What are you talking about?
    men, are physically stronger than woman, can do a lot of work as compared to women.... woman, during their periods, can't work long..... You are suggesting that women should go out and while men should rest... I am have send shame on power of such men....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    There are several reasons I'm sure. What difference does it make. Do you think any of the reason to cheat only apply in a work environment?
    No i don't think, but it can be one of the reason... Isn't it good to finish one reason which leads people to cheat other...


  • #148
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    I'm not sure if you're being serious or not. I spent some time in Malaysia years ago and there were Muslim women working in all manner of jobs, in offices, shops, hospitals..you name it. There are plenty of Muslim women leading successful careers in Ireland too. The idea that a woman only works because her husband or father sends her out to work is frankly ludicrous. Wasn't the Prophet Muhammed's first wife a businesswoman (and a successful one too)?
    Women can work in men free environment... Like in many muslim countries, there are universities only for women... I mean, Islamic society provides such an environment where women can work with or under women..... It is duty of society, to provide such means in favor of women.... If society fails to provide then you've concubines, mistresses and society butterflies.....
    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    The idea that a woman only works because her husband or father sends her out to work is frankly ludicrous.
    It is allowedfor a woman to go out of her house for work, but if certain conditions are ment... That she needs to work in order to acquire the money she needs, .......The work should be suited to the nature of woman, such as medicine, nursing, teaching, and so on.......The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no mixing with non-mahram men......Her work should not lead to her travelling without a mahram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahram)........Her going out to work should not involve committing any unislamic (haram)action, such as being alone with the driver, or wearing perfume where non-mahrams can smell it.......That should not lead to her neglecting things that are more essential for her, such as looking after her house, and children. "
    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Wasn't the Prophet Muhammed's first wife a businesswoman (and a successful one too)?
    '
    She was a businesswoman before the revelation of quran....


  • #149
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    RichieC wrote: »
    How could you live in Ireland and have such a ridiculously outdated view of women, Deadone?
    to create a pious society in the world and Ireland will be that place... The place i see for my dreams... What do you think??... We will stop advertisement of women... we will stop this cheating/sh!tty business.. The business lead by fool men....... We will create a society, Where a woman will be treated as relation not as an object....... I can see you're not listing but your children and grand children will understand my poor English..... A society free of blue witches ;)


  • #150
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    She was a businesswoman before the revelation of quran....

    Can you quote the part of the Quran where Mohammed told her to stop working?

    P.


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  • #151
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Can you quote the part of the Quran where Mohammed told her to stop working?

    P.
    The basic rule is that a female should remain at home, and not go out except for necessary purposes.
    “And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance”
    [al-Ahzaab 33:33]
    do you see ignorance around.... How men are doing business at the bodies of women...


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