Beggars - why you shouldn't give to them

JuliusCaesar · 11-12-2013 10:50pm #1

here

I've long thought this. There are actually a lot of supports available to them, between Social Services and hostels and so on. Yes, their lives are often chaotic but being able to earn a fairly good living by begging supports that and enables them NOT to be more organised. I have listened to two beggars at a Luas stop discuss having got a B&B paid for by Welfare, but that they weren't going to actually use it. Eh, that's our tax that's paying for the B&B, but you'd prefer to party? Fine. But I'm not going to give you cash to do so.

BMJD · 12-12-2013 12:36am

on the other hand,

The council and senior police say that people should instead give to charities

...them CEO salaries need to be paid too :pac:

Gravale · 12-12-2013 1:04pm

On the other hand, in a recent study the Salvation Army used more of its donations to help the poor that almost any other charity. A good choice, methinks.

Koptain Liverpool · 12-12-2013 1:30pm

Whatever about giving money there can be no argument against giving a hot drink or some food to people on the street.

tfak85 · 12-12-2013 1:40pm

The odd time I will give change to someone on the street but I would tend to offer them a cup of tea or a hot chocolate instead.

January · 12-12-2013 1:46pm

As this is not a Dublin specific topic, I've moved it to Humanities.

JuliusCaesar · 12-12-2013 11:15pm

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Whatever about giving money there can be no argument against giving a hot drink or some food to people on the street.

No, you are right. Except I've seen a) the donation being literally thrown at the giver and b) the donation accepted and then left aside and wasted.

A few years ago, some programme on TV put out a 'beggar' and a busker on the street to see who got most money. (All money received would in fact go to a charity.) To my horror, the beggar made more money. The more money they get, the more of a life-style choice it becomes.

clairefontaine · 14-12-2013 12:12am

There are plenty of homeless near and around me, from all walks of life.

Back in high school I worked for Habit for Humanity for my Christian service. A boy in senior year, in NYC btw, went undercover for his Christian service, pretended to be homeless and investigated the shelters. What he found was widespread abuse by the security. That's why some of them won't use the shelters.

There are homeless children near me, some of them are in public schools and god only knows where they are sleeping. Obviously in the US we do not have the same social welfare programs. We also have alot of veterans who come back wounded or crazy and can't get jobs.

I met a young kid on the street who has a wicked step dad situation. He now has a record making it hard for him to get a job. His record is for trespassing. And you know what he was doing? Nothing. He was in McDonalds, sitting there and they called the police to remove him and the cops cited him for trespassing.

Another case...a man was laid off and lost the family home in a divorce, he sleeps in a tent and he's nowhere to see the kids.

So **** you newspaper. I'm giving to the cold and homeless as much as I please.

hotbabe1992 · 14-12-2013 5:08pm

Jesus there are truly awful tragic stories out there,there are many sometimes complex reasons as to why people end up homeless,its a minefield,usually yes you will find the junkies or the ones with myraid of mental health issues but you will find people from all walks of life who really got their knocks,maybe a relative died etc.Couldnt pay the bills,i felt sad reading your story.

I do give to some homeless but not much as a i cant afford to be even throwing away the euros myself,but the odd time i would there is a guy there in limerick who looks newly homeless and is in a bad way,hes not part of the organised begging groups and sits on the outskirts of the city on his own freezing his arse off..

Poor bugger i thought to myself.

As a rule though most of the time when im in the city i dont give to them as it encourages them to walk up to you and stuff.So i tend to avoid it,if other people arent looking(other beggers) i would give.

Like the fella who was on the outskirts of the city i would give to him as nobody would see me doing that.

There are better services in ireland though than the US i hear its awful over there,they even got their foodstamps cut,while bolstering up the wage of a lot of rich republicans.

Sure didnt the rich republicans want to shut down the whitehouse and effectively did over obama care,that was one of the issues they had..

I do get your point though once you give to one begger it can get out of control,and who knows they might see the euros in your purse and snatch it while you are taking out the 2 or 3..

JuliusCaesar · 18-12-2013 12:57pm

clairefontaine wrote: »

Obviously in the US we do not have the same social welfare programs.

Ah well, the USA. It's very different here. I work in the HSE and previously worked in the NHS in the UK, including working in services for the homeless and mentally ill.

My donations to charity are to an organisation that I think well of, through my bank account, on a monthly basis.

There are far too many scammers around to be handing out cash to individuals on the street or calling to my house. It's impossible to tell the scammers from the really needy and desperate. That's why we should stop handing out money on the street - the scammers will stop doing it.

The Corinthian · 20-12-2013 1:16pm

Think of it as protection money.

One of the interesting consequences of the invasion of Afghanistan was that the Taliban ban on growing opium poppies ended and the street price of heroin dropped dramatically in the West.

This meant that many junkies were now able to support their habits solely through begging and did not have to resort to violent crime to raise the necessary funds. And oddly enough the crime statistics in many cities reflected this.

So, call me an amoral, cynical SOB, but if you give to a beggar, think of it as helping to bring about one less mugging in the community.

hotbabe1992 · 21-12-2013 4:37pm

Thats an interesting and realistic way of looking at it,i never gave it much thought like that,although i have given to them in the knowledge that - well you know they wont be buying a sambo and a coffee..

I think if they are high out of their head they are less agitated and desperate which makes the situation less dangerous.

Iggy154 · 22-12-2013 11:53pm

The more you give them, the more they will expect from other people. People truly in need never beg.

The Corinthian · 23-12-2013 12:08am

Iggy154 wrote: »

People truly in need never beg.

Why, because they're too proud to ask for help? Rather starve and live rough on the street on a point of principle?

I love when people come out with middle-class clichés like "people truly in need never beg".

Celly Smunt · 23-12-2013 12:15am

A tip for people looking to help homeless.

Go out around town one night,find a homeless person sleeping rough (this shows who is genuine),take a note of them and continue to help that individual whether it be through food,hot drinks or whatever.

I can assure you that the genuine homeless people sleeping around towns across the country in weather like we're having tonight will not turn their noses up at the prospect of some breakfast or tea.

This might sound a little wrong,but get yourself your regular homeless person who is honest and build a relationship with them.A conversation alone costs nothing.

allthedoyles · 23-12-2013 12:17am

Passed the same guy twice yesterday in Waterford , and both times he waved his paper cup at me .

I didn't give him anything , - and right across the road was the Simon Community shop .

Iggy154 · 23-12-2013 12:18am

The Corinthian wrote: »

Why, because they're too proud to ask for help? Rather starve and live rough on the street on a point of principle?

I love when people come out with middle-class clichés like "people truly in need never beg".

Why they don't is a matter for themselves, not me.
I love when middle class people come out with holier than thou sentiments.

mlumley · 23-12-2013 12:22am

There was one guy in Clonmel with a crutch begging. I don't give to beggars often. I drove the bus from Clonmel to Thurles. I parked up by the swimming baths, yes, a long time ago. I was doing paper work and saw the same guy with his crutch under his arm, walk into the car park with his wife and two children. He got into a Merc and drove out of the car park.

That's why I don't give to beggars any more.

The Corinthian · 23-12-2013 11:32am

Iggy154 wrote: »

Why they don't is a matter for themselves, not me.

Unless they don't behave like that at all, because all we have is your word that any do, and you're just coming out with some nonsense on how you feel they should behave...

I love when middle class people come out with holier than thou sentiments.

I'm afraid, you're the only one who's been holier than thou (or middle class), the moment you ascribed to the 'real' poor an acceptable, in your eyes, code of conduct. All I've done is point out how daft your claim is.

Vinz Mesrine · 23-12-2013 11:40am

mlumley wrote: »

There was one guy in Clonmel with a crutch begging. I don't give to beggars often. I drove the bus from Clonmel to Thurles. I parked up by the swimming baths, yes, a long time ago. I was doing paper work and saw the same guy with his crutch under his arm, walk into the car park with his wife and two children. He got into a Merc and drove out of the car park.

That's why I don't give to beggars any more.

Did the wife have a free buggy that she couldn't fit in the Merc so she just left it on the side of the road?

OldNotWIse · 23-12-2013 11:42am

Celly Smunt wrote: »

A tip for people looking to help homeless.

Go out around town one night,find a homeless person sleeping rough (this shows who is genuine),take a note of them and continue to help that individual whether it be through food,hot drinks or whatever.

I can assure you that the genuine homeless people sleeping around towns across the country in weather like we're having tonight will not turn their noses up at the prospect of some breakfast or tea.

This might sound a little wrong,but get yourself your regular homeless person who is honest and build a relationship with them.A conversation alone costs nothing.

That sort of happened me by accident. I met a homeless guy and we ended up chatting. He was annoyed because a certain food vendor nearby had a policy of throwing out the food at close of business rather than selling it to him for a nominal amount. I can understand their policy and liability reasons, but it seemed pretty daft at a basic level too - hungry person cannot afford food....lets throw this good food in the bin instead of giving it to him. Anyway, I always seem to bump into him whenever I'm out, even if I go somewhere else. Will give him what I can, but I dont generally give to people on the street.

Iggy154 · 23-12-2013 4:04pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Unless they don't behave like that at all, because all we have is your word that any do, and you're just coming out with some nonsense on how you feel they should behave...

I'm afraid, you're the only one who's been holier than thou (or middle class), the moment you ascribed to the 'real' poor an acceptable, in your eyes, code of conduct. All I've done is point out how daft your claim is.

To be a beggar you have to be brazen. Poor people are not brazen. If they were they wouldn't be poor in the first place. You can salve your conscience by giving money to beggars all you want but you are not giving to the real poor.

tomdempsey200 · 23-12-2013 4:08pm

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Whatever about giving money there can be no argument against giving a hot drink or some food to people on the street.

it can enable drug and alcohol addiction too

you get your food and drink free

all money goes on addiction

The Corinthian · 23-12-2013 4:10pm

Iggy154 wrote: »

To be a beggar you have to be brazen. Poor people are not brazen. If they were they wouldn't be poor in the first place.

LOL. Do you base this on anything other than your opinion?

You can salve your conscience by giving money to beggars all you want but you are not giving to the real poor.

I think you're under a grave misapprehension; I'm not chastising you for being uncharitable; I never give to beggars - one cold snap and the problem would solve itself, TBH. I'm chastising you for coming out with opinionated, generalized nonsense.

Iggy154 · 23-12-2013 4:14pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

LOL. Do you base this on anything other than your opinion?

I think you're under a grave misapprehension; I'm not chastising you for being uncharitable; I never give to beggars - one cold snap and the problem would solve itself, TBH. I'm chastising you for coming out with opinionated, generalized nonsense.

There have been many cold snaps and there are still beggars. People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones about nonsense.

hotbabe1992 · 23-12-2013 8:14pm

I know on principle i shouldnt give to beggers and i dont in general bar one young fella who is a beggar on his own - i give to him cos i know he is genuine and desperate,ive seen him still there past 5 when all the rest have hopped in their cars(like the romanies do),or go down a few streets and walk back to their flat i know the romanies have a place back in catherine street,and when finished begging go back there..Like they need it pfft

There are some ''beggars'' that give the genuine ones a bad name,just like the CRC charities give other charities a bad name like( rehab care angela kerins getting 200+ k and other bonuses she refuses to discuss/publish).

My point is it shouldn't get in the way or put you off from seeing real people in need.

This year is going to be tougher on all of us with water charges,property tax,bin charges and electric never mind the day to day expenses of just living.

Who knows who is next on being out on the street due to not being able to cope with bills coming in..

I know for a lot of families if it wasnt for SVP or the odd food parcel they would be stuck.

Its going to be a LOT worse this year.

clairefontaine · 24-12-2013 7:56am

Iggy154 wrote: »

To be a beggar you have to be brazen. Poor people are not brazen. If they were they wouldn't be poor in the first place. You can salve your conscience by giving money to beggars all you want but you are not giving to the real poor.

You obviously have never been to a ghetto or the Dominican Republic, or read about **** poor Irish children in late 19th century NYC who went begging door to door for food every thanksgiving. Or read about the poor famine ship survivors who ate out of people 's trash to eat.

The poor and hungry will do what they need to do, and that includes begging. Begging can be brazen, but it can also be desperate.

justincasey · 08-01-2014 11:06am

The majority of people Tapping (Begging) on the streets of Dublin are doing it to feed there addictions.There needs to be radical change in how the government deals with the drug issue in the city. A lack of adequate resources including detox waiting lists or assertive outreach teams to target homeless seems to be a major part in reaching them. Surely nobody wants to sit on a bridge all day in freezing cold weather tapping up a few euro. However this is the nature of there addiction.

gugleguy · 08-01-2014 6:42pm

North American based Charity monitor
Mostly North American based charities:

Grade A from these guys: The charity is the Genuine Article
Grade F from these guys: A case of gugleguy employing his friends and acquaitances on the board of the charity. Quite likely that 95% of all donations to this charity, well go into the pockets of the board members themselves.

A bit scant, but well worth checking out.

WayneScott · 17-02-2014 9:05pm

Wouldn't give to this beggar

18-02-2014 10:59am

WayneScott wrote: »

Wouldn't give to this beggar

Please stay on topic and at least make the effort of finding a suitable thread within which to grind your axe.

WayneScott · 18-02-2014 11:32pm

gvn wrote: »

Please stay on topic and at least make the effort of finding a suitable thread within which to grind your axe.

I am not grinding an axe. I would give money to someone on the street before giving it to someone living off the sick

Beggars - why you shouldn't give to them

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