Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

lubo_moravcik · 16-07-2012 8:56pm

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

LOL and the RST want Green out they are backing John Brown FFs I and the majority of fans don't trust the RST

Do you trust them? Am at a loss as to who's who and who the good guys and bad guys are. I like Bomber Brown though, he provides good entertainment.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 16-07-2012 8:59pm

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Do you trust them? Am at a loss as to who's who and who the good guys and bad guys are. I like Bomber Brown though, he provides good entertainment.

I wouldn't trust the RST if my last breath depended on it. He may be good entertainment but a businessman he aint and its fine if you are not a Ger but some of the crap he comes away with is embarrassing

lubo_moravcik · 17-07-2012 8:06am

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Do you trust them? Am at a loss as to who's who and who the good guys and bad guys are. I like Bomber Brown though, he provides good entertainment.

I wouldn't trust the RST if my last breath depended on it. He may be good entertainment but a businessman he aint and its fine if you are not a Ger but some of the crap he comes away with is embarrassing

What about Charles Green this morning, are the bears behind him?

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 17-07-2012 9:46am

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

What about Charles Green this morning, are the bears behind him?

Do I trust him no is he the only game in town just now yes. Lets be straight so called Rangers men could have stepped in long before this but didn't so when people like Brown start bumping their gums yes then I am very wary

fryup · 17-07-2012 11:43am

fryup wrote: »

will rangers supporters switch allegiance to Hearts??

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Absolutley. If the roles were reversed and it was Celtic in this position i would 100% transfer my allegaince to Hibs. :rolleyes:honest to god, what a stupid question

really? is it beyond the bounds of possibility?

c'mon now i'm sure they'll be a significant amount of rangers fans who wouldn't be too pushed about going to lowly Div 3 fixtures...i'd say its highly likely that some will be travelling up to tynecastle esp for the Celtic fixtures

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 17-07-2012 12:09pm

fryup wrote: »

fryup wrote: »

will rangers supporters switch allegiance to Hearts??

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Absolutley. If the roles were reversed and it was Celtic in this position i would 100% transfer my allegaince to Hibs. :rolleyes:honest to god, what a stupid question

really? is it beyond the bounds of possibility?

c'mon now i'm sure they'll be a significant amount of rangers fans who wouldn't be too pushed about going to lowly Div 3 fixtures...i'd say its highly likely that some will be travelling up to tynecastle esp for the Celtic fixtures

What a load of crap as a Rangers fan I can assure you it's beyond the realms of possibility. If any chose do do that they were never real Rangers fans anyway but rest assured we would rather watch our team in the third that follow Hertz. Would you swap clubs if something happened to your team??

cruiserweight · 17-07-2012 12:22pm

fryup wrote: »

really? is it beyond the bounds of possibility?

c'mon now i'm sure they'll be a significant amount of rangers fans who wouldn't be too pushed about going to lowly Div 3 fixtures...i'd say its highly likely that some will be travelling up to tynecastle esp for the Celtic fixtures

You seem to forget that there are plenty of Rangers fans through out Scotland, not just in Glasgow. I imagine that at games you will have a mix of fans who have traveled and local Rangers fans. I am sure they will have plenty of support at away games, and while not as high as when in the SPL there will be a high support at home games

lubo_moravcik · 17-07-2012 1:49pm

fryup wrote: »

[

really? is it beyond the bounds of possibility?

c'mon now i'm sure they'll be a significant amount of rangers fans who wouldn't be too pushed about going to lowly Div 3 fixtures...i'd say its highly likely that some will be travelling up to tynecastle esp for the Celtic fixtures

What team do you support?

blahfckingblah · 17-07-2012 10:09pm

fryup wrote: »

really? is it beyond the bounds of possibility?

yes I am a Celtic fan and if they somehow got into difficulty like rangers did that wouldnt change. I have no affinity to hibernian (apologies hibees) or any other scottish club for that matter so if my club was in division 3 the spl would be as irrelevent to me as the English premier league is

Jelle1880 · 18-07-2012 12:06am

Is there anyone who can clearly explain to me how in the hell they would be able to use a transfer ban as a necessity to give Rangers a license ?

I mean, I'm fairly certain I understood that a judge said 'Hey, listen the **** up, you can punish them but only with the possible punishments available, and a transfer ban isn't one of them'.

bobmalooka · 18-07-2012 12:38am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Is there anyone who can clearly explain to me how in the hell they would be able to use a transfer ban as a necessity to give Rangers a license ?

I mean, I'm fairly certain I understood that a judge said 'Hey, listen the **** up, you can punish them but only with the possible punishments available, and a transfer ban isn't one of them'.

I would imagine they are treating the transfer ban as a condition of getting SFA membership in lieu of publishing accounts for legal reasons.

The SFA from a legal view need to show that sevco is not a new SFA share application but merely a transfer or Rangers share to Sevco otherwise they could leave the whole process open to legal challenge from clubs who may feel they missed out on a chance to join the SFL due to Sevco getting in.

The transfer ban would tie that up nicely for them.

delos · 18-07-2012 1:18am

bobmalooka wrote: »

The transfer ban would tie that up nicely for them.

If there is a requirement to punish to maintain the connection between the SFA shares then the transfer ban isn't a good option as:

The SFA lose even more credibility by trying to apply a sanction they've been told isn't legal.
It prevents the club from rebuilding. There are a lot of cynical old ba$tards play in the lower divisions and a team composed of youths will get the $hite kicked out of them.

Strange as it may sound, I think the best option would be to kick them out of the Scottish Cup:

They are never going to come close to winning the thing.
I doubt that they will get very far this season so the financial impact won't be huge.
By being in the 3rd Division there is an effective transfer ban on top quality players as no amount of money will induce them to play in the 3rd Division.

What is needed is some clarity and return to normality so that sevco can be allowed to build and return to the upper reaches of Scottish football over the next few years. Unfortunately I suspect that the SFA are trying to regain some of the face they lost during this whole fiasco and will try and force their original judgement through.

On a less serious note, wouldn't this whole rebuilding thing make a great reality TV show? The revenue might help offset some of the losses if Sky walk away.....

Jelle1880 · 18-07-2012 6:31am

Apparently the Daily Record was a draft regarding possible sanctions for the EBT's:

Allan Rennie ‏@AllanRennie1
@TCLARKTOPCAT Document specifically says five league titles, four Scottish cups.
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Allan Rennie ‏@AllanRennie1
@Coburn73 Document does not explain why they picked out those 5 league titles or excluded league cups.
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Allan Rennie ‏@AllanRennie1
@paddygarcia Draft says Newco are liable for all Oldco debts.
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SantryRed · 18-07-2012 8:30am

I'm completely confused by the whole situation now.

Was the votes held by the SPL and SFL to allow a new Rangers club into certain divisions or the severity of the punishment that the old Rangers club should receive due to the cheating in regards the EBTs and the likes?

If it was as a new club, then surely no transfer embargoes can be put on the club as it isn't the same as the old one.

If it was punishment as an old club, then surely Dunfermline should be staying in the SPL instead of Dundee?

It's pretty baffling

Jelle1880 · 18-07-2012 9:24am

What does Dunfermline have to do with it ?

SomethingElse · 18-07-2012 10:38am

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What does Dunfermline have to do with it ?

Well if it was Rangers being punished then Dunfermline would still be in the SPL, but because it is a new company it gave a chance for Dundee to be promoted. They need to decide whether they're punishing the old club, or the new club, fairly soon. It's becoming farcical and isn't reflecting well on Scottish football :mad:

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 10:41am

SomethingElse wrote: »

Well if it was Rangers being punished then Dunfermline would still be in the SPL, but because it is a new company it gave a chance for Dundee to be promoted. They need to decide whether they're punishing the old club, or the new club, fairly soon. It's becoming farcical and isn't reflecting well on Scottish football :mad:

The point is in this way we keep our history as they are punishing us as the old club if and when our share gets transferred its the old clubs share its the company thats new

SomethingElse · 18-07-2012 10:55am

SantryRed's point remains. Why were Dunfermline relegated?

It would suggest that Rangers disappeared. But giving the newco a transfer ban implies a continuation of the old club. What are the SFA/SPL thinking? Do they want the old Rangers? Or are they pushing for a continuation of the old club?

It would appear that they favour the later, due to the punishment they are handing out, but surely they are also hindering Rangers return to the top flight by such a ban.

Could it be an attempt to keep Rangers in Div. 3 for more than one season? The only way such a move would make any sense is if they were planning to introduce SPL 2 next season.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 10:57am

SomethingElse wrote: »

SantryRed's point remains. Why were Dunfermline relegated?

It would suggest that Rangers disappeared. But giving the newco a transfer ban implies a continuation of the old club. What are the SFA/SPL thinking? Do they want the old Rangers? Or are they pushing for a continuation of the old club?

It would appear that they favour the later, due to the punishment they are handing out, but surely they are also hindering Rangers return to the top flight by such a ban.

Could it be an attempt to keep Rangers in Div. 3 for more than one season? The only way such a move would make any sense is if they were planning to introduce SPL 2 next season.

I am with you on the SPL2 I reckon that is the way they are planning to go

lubo_moravcik · 18-07-2012 11:34am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18880822

Rangers: John Brown to launch takeover campaign

Former Rangers player John Brown has put £40,000 of his own money into a fans' fund he hopes will wrest control of the club from the Sevco consortium.
He has already urged fans to boycott season tickets for the new Rangers that Sevco hope to field in Division Three.
"It is only right that as I have been out in the front of this, I should put my own money in too," said Brown, who is to launch Rangers For Change.
“
I have spoken to Barry Ferguson and he has promised me that he is 100% behind me
”
John Brown
Former Rangers player
"I'm not a wealthy guy and £40,000 represents a huge commitment for me."
Brown gave up his job as a Rangers scout to lead takeover attempts after the consortium led by former Sheffield United chief executive Charles Green bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m after the failure to avoid liquidation.
"I have meetings with bankers and lawyers arranged for the next two days and believe that, by the end of the week, I will be able to release further details of how Rangers For Change will work."

Brown wants wealthy people and former players to each match his £40,000 donation in the hope of raising about £10m he believes could buy out the consortium on behalf of the club's supporters.
And he claims to already have the support of former Rangers captain Barry Ferguson, the former Scotland midfielder presently with Blackpool.
Brown, a member of the Rangers team that won nine titles in a row in the 1990s, said: "I have spoken to Barry and he has promised me that he is 100% behind me.
"He is out of the country on a pre-season training trip, but there is no doubting his commitment and his enthusiasm for my deal.
"Because of his pre-season training and playing commitments, it will be a couple of weeks or so before we will be able to sit down together and hammer out the details.
"But I can assure everyone how excited Barry is to be given this opportunity to do something for the club he loves."
Brown is suspicious of the motives and backers of the Sevco consortium that bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m after the failure to avoid liquidation and retain a place in the Scottish Premier League.
Sevco is negotiating with the Scottish FA to field a new Rangers in the Third Division next season, but Brown wants fans to boycott the new club and force it to sell because of a lack of funds.
"Getting Barry on board at this early stage is a huge boost for our plans and I believe that he is just the first of many other well-known names from Rangers' past who will be happy to back this commitment to the club's future," added Brown.

SomethingElse · 18-07-2012 11:35am

Do you think Rangers would be ready (playing staff wise) for launching a challenge in SPL 2, should it follow at the end of next season? What will their squad be like for this season? I'm assuming they'll draw in some of the better lower league players (transfer ban permitting). There'll be a lot of guys out there wanting to tell their grandchildren of how they played for Rangers, and some that will see Rangers as a way to the top of the Scottish game.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 11:37am

SomethingElse wrote: »

Do you think Rangers would be ready (playing staff wise) for launching a challenge in SPL 2, should it follow at the end of next season? What will their squad be like for this season? I'm assuming they'll draw in some of the better lower league players (transfer ban permitting). There'll be a lot of guys out there wanting to tell their grandchildren of how they played for Rangers, and some that will see Rangers as a way to the top of the Scottish game.

As you say a lot depends on the transfer ban I for one certainly don't believe we would be challenging for honours I reckon it will be a few years before that happens

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 11:41am

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18880822

Rangers: John Brown to launch takeover campaign

Former Rangers player John Brown has put £40,000 of his own money into a fans' fund he hopes will wrest control of the club from the Sevco consortium.
He has already urged fans to boycott season tickets for the new Rangers that Sevco hope to field in Division Three.
"It is only right that as I have been out in the front of this, I should put my own money in too," said Brown, who is to launch Rangers For Change.
“
I have spoken to Barry Ferguson and he has promised me that he is 100% behind me
”
John Brown
Former Rangers player
"I'm not a wealthy guy and £40,000 represents a huge commitment for me."
Brown gave up his job as a Rangers scout to lead takeover attempts after the consortium led by former Sheffield United chief executive Charles Green bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m after the failure to avoid liquidation.
"I have meetings with bankers and lawyers arranged for the next two days and believe that, by the end of the week, I will be able to release further details of how Rangers For Change will work."

Brown wants wealthy people and former players to each match his £40,000 donation in the hope of raising about £10m he believes could buy out the consortium on behalf of the club's supporters.
And he claims to already have the support of former Rangers captain Barry Ferguson, the former Scotland midfielder presently with Blackpool.
Brown, a member of the Rangers team that won nine titles in a row in the 1990s, said: "I have spoken to Barry and he has promised me that he is 100% behind me.
"He is out of the country on a pre-season training trip, but there is no doubting his commitment and his enthusiasm for my deal.
"Because of his pre-season training and playing commitments, it will be a couple of weeks or so before we will be able to sit down together and hammer out the details.
"But I can assure everyone how excited Barry is to be given this opportunity to do something for the club he loves."
Brown is suspicious of the motives and backers of the Sevco consortium that bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m after the failure to avoid liquidation and retain a place in the Scottish Premier League.
Sevco is negotiating with the Scottish FA to field a new Rangers in the Third Division next season, but Brown wants fans to boycott the new club and force it to sell because of a lack of funds.
"Getting Barry on board at this early stage is a huge boost for our plans and I believe that he is just the first of many other well-known names from Rangers' past who will be happy to back this commitment to the club's future," added Brown.

Yeah what a joke I somehow don't see Brown and Barry as to financial whizzkids.
On another note Green said at a meeting that anyone could exam the deeds for Ibrox and Auchenhowie which Brown has so far reneged on A gut I know is doing it and has been in touch with the relevant people so I look forward to hearing the details

Dempsey · 18-07-2012 1:05pm

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/18/revealed-football-chiefs-secret-plan-to-strip-rangers-of-nine-trophies-over-ebt-tax-dodge-86908-23909684/

Football chiefs' secret plan to strip Rangers of nine trophies over EBT tax dodge

● STRIPPING the club of their league titles from 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11;

● WIPING OUT Rangers’ Scottish Cup triumphs of 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8 and 2008/9;

● FORCING Rangers to accept the one-year transfer embargo imposed by the SFA and overturned by the Court of Session;

● ORDERING Green’s newco to pay Rangers’ old football debts to clubs in Scotland and Europe.

Since the Div1/SPL2 scheme died and the SFA have nothing left to protect they could threaten to accept the above or no SFA membership.

Old Gill · 18-07-2012 1:12pm

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/18/revealed-football-chiefs-secret-plan-to-strip-rangers-of-nine-trophies-over-ebt-tax-dodge-86908-23909684/

Football chiefs' secret plan to strip Rangers of nine trophies over EBT tax dodge

● STRIPPING the club of their league titles from 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11;

● WIPING OUT Rangers’ Scottish Cup triumphs of 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8 and 2008/9;

● FORCING Rangers to accept the one-year transfer embargo imposed by the SFA and overturned by the Court of Session;

● ORDERING Green’s newco to pay Rangers’ old football debts to clubs in Scotland and Europe.

Since the Div1/SPL2 scheme died and the SFA have nothing left to protect they could threaten to accept the above or no SFA membership.

I'd imagine even the most extreme former rangers fan would accept the trophies need stripped. A bigger issue would be do they go to whoever finished second? I'd be happy if they were just voided

Guy:Incognito · 18-07-2012 1:26pm

If they still had to pay the debts what is the point of liquidating and forming a new company/club? They could have just gone in to administration and stayed in the SPL with a points deduction. Or am I missing something?

jack presley · 18-07-2012 1:29pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If they still had to pay the debts what is the point of liquidating and forming a new company/club? They could have just gone in to administration and stayed in the SPL with a points deduction. Or am I missing something?

Do the debts only mean their football debts? In other words they have to clear their payments to clubs owed money but they don't have to pay other debts that the club had? Just a guess!

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 2:08pm

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/07/18/revealed-football-chiefs-secret-plan-to-strip-rangers-of-nine-trophies-over-ebt-tax-dodge-86908-23909684/

Football chiefs' secret plan to strip Rangers of nine trophies over EBT tax dodge

● STRIPPING the club of their league titles from 2002/3, 2004/5, 2008/9, 2009/10 and 2010/11;

● WIPING OUT Rangers’ Scottish Cup triumphs of 2001/2, 2002/3, 2007/8 and 2008/9;

● FORCING Rangers to accept the one-year transfer embargo imposed by the SFA and overturned by the Court of Session;

● ORDERING Green’s newco to pay Rangers’ old football debts to clubs in Scotland and Europe.

Since the Div1/SPL2 scheme died and the SFA have nothing left to protect they could threaten to accept the above or no SFA membership.

As for stripping trophies people are forgetting Rangers Have not been found guilty of these charges yet
So it stinks

Green has already stated that the football debts have to be paid

Dempsey · 18-07-2012 2:33pm

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

As for stripping trophies people are forgetting Rangers Have not been found guilty of these charges yet
So it stinks

Green has already stated that the football debts have to be paid

Its all but official at this stage.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 18-07-2012 2:38pm

Dempsey wrote: »

Its all but official at this stage.

It makes no difference they drew up a plan that found us guilty when no such verdict had been given. Just another example of how the SFA and crew could't run a raffle

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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