Pint prices to rise again?

BraziliaNZ · 30-07-2009 10:20am #1

How on earth can they even be considering this? I used to go to my local once or twice a week a few years ago, now i never go, I'd usually just go out once a week in town. And they wonder why business is so bad? Raising the price of a pint is the solution? Are these people drop-dead stupid or what? I love when i see pubs closing down due to lack of business, they deserve it the greedy pigs. If prices go up again I'm saving my money and drinking abroad every couple of months, or driving up north!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/pubs-ponder-dearer-pints-after-price-freeze-breach-1846071.html

By Tim Healy and Breda Heffernan

Thursday July 30 2009

Publicans were last night mulling over whether to raise the price of a pint after a High Court case which forced the end of a price freeze.

It was still unclear last night whether the price of a pint would go up or, more unlikely, go down, following the High Court ruling that a price freeze by publicans amounted to a breach of competition rules.

Industry sources admitted to having "no idea" what the outcome of the court decision would be for drinkers, although some sources suggested it would be "insane" for publicans to put up the price of drink in a recession.

The Licensed Vintners' Association and the Vintners' Federation of Ireland announced a 12-month price freeze on December 1 last year in a bid to encourage drinkers back to the country's pubs.

However, the High Court last week found the two groups were in contempt of court by recommending the pricing initiative.

Mr Justice Liam McKechnie yesterday ruled that an announcement by the publicans' organisations reversing the price freeze was a sufficient response; however, he ordered that they should take out advertisements in three Sunday newspapers outlining that the freeze is no longer in operation.

The court was told that the LVA and VFI had issued a press release on Tuesday countermanding the freeze announcement and had also sent letters to all their members notifying them of the countermanding decision.

Contempt

The Competition Authority had brought the action seeking to have the organisations found in contempt of court because the price freeze breached an undertakings previously given by them in a 2003 settlement of previous proceedings over alleged drink price fixing.

The court heard the Competition Authority was not looking for any penal consequences for the publicans and was only interested in upholding the law.

Yesterday, after being told by counsel for the organisations that they unreservedly apologised for their contempt, the judge said he was satisfied with their unconditional apology and with the press release/letters countermanding the original announcement.

"I am satisfied the steps taken by both associations countermanding the 2008 announcement, and the letters sent to their members, is a sufficient and adequate response to my judgment given last Friday," he said.

Counsel for the Competition Authority argued publicity for the countermanding notice should be equivalent to the amount of publicity the price freeze announcement received last year, through some form of advertising in the national press.

The judge said the publicans should place advertisements containing the press release in three Sunday newspapers this week.

He also gave permission to the Competition Authority to put his judgment in the matter on its website.

- Tim Healy and Breda Heffernan

AnonoBoy · 30-07-2009 10:24am

About bleedin' time. The Vintners Association has been taken advantage of by the Irish people for long enough.

It's a shocking outrage that they've kept their prices so low for so long and now even with the hint of a small, almost miniscule increase, the public get all annoyed? No way man. No fuppin' way.

Publicans deserve our respect and admiration for the service they provide and they deserve to profit handsomely from it.

Today is Backwards Day, right?

unwyse · 30-07-2009 10:28am

+1 anonoboy,these sterling citizens have been helping irish peeps forget their problems since noah was a boy and they do indeed deserve a "round" of applause,but unfortunately i cant pay!cheers to all ye publicans,may all your troubles be small ones.

ejmaztec · 30-07-2009 10:29am

AnonoBoy wrote: »

About bleedin' time. The Vintners Association has been taken advantage of by the Irish people for long enough.

It's a shocking outrage that they've kept their prices so low for so long and now even with the hint of a small, almost miniscule increase, the public get all annoyed? No way man. No fuppin' way.

Publicans deserve our respect and admiration for the service they provide and they deserve to profit handsomely from it.

Today is Backwards Day, right?

I raise my glass of water to you sir.

EdgarAllenPoo · 30-07-2009 10:29am

I love when i see pubs closing down due to lack of business, they deserve it the greedy pigs.

So you like seeing people that work for the publicans lose their jobs, how nice.

If prices go up again I'm saving my money and drinking abroad every couple of months, or driving up north!

Go up north or just go into your local supermarket, most people I know just drink at home because you can get a better selection in a shop and bring it home, it's cheaper and you don't run the risk of a random stranger puking on your shoes on the way home.

anti chris-t · 30-07-2009 10:30am

Just goes to show that these price freezes and these price reductions by other companies are all a facade and they're just waiting for the day they can rip us off again.

Time Magazine · 30-07-2009 10:33am

Relax. The High Court case was taken because the Vintners' oh-so-lovely "price freeze" was really a "lads let's all agree to not lower prices, even though the whole country is f*cked and demand has fallen." It's a subtle, but awful, move. And was rightly ruled illegal.

Deflation is running at 5%. So a price freeze is basically the same as all the pubs agreeing a 5% increase when inflation is flat. We woudln't accept that, so well done to the Competition Authority.

Prices can now fall. Consumers, you know what to do if any publican raises their prices!

unwyse · 30-07-2009 10:36am

if anyones going up north to drink may i recommend the queens arms on the shankhill road, a fine pint served here just ask for sammy,cheers.:D:D

Slow Motion · 30-07-2009 10:37am

So, the price freeze is considered to be illegal and has been overturned! Every other business in the country is looking for ways to reduce costs and pass the saving on to the ever decreasing number of punters with money in their pockets in the hopes of retaining their business. And the publicans are mulling over wether to increase prices or not? I go to my local less and less and if they up the prices instead of bringing them down I will stop completely. Time to start thinking seriously about home brew again. These bastids have been gouging regulars for years and profiteering so much they make politicians and bankers look like philantropists (sp?). Talk about living on another planet. The unfortunate thing is that when (not if) more pubs start going out of business the only losers will be the staff and the public. The owners have already made their money many times over and obviously don't give a fcuk about the people who run and drink in their premises!

BraziliaNZ · 30-07-2009 10:38am

GDM wrote: »

So you like seeing people that work for the publicans lose their jobs, how nice.

Go up north or just go into your local supermarket, most people I know just drink at home because you can get a better selection in a shop and bring it home, it's cheaper and you don't run the risk of a random stranger puking on your shoes on the way home.

Wow you sound like tonnes of fun, PM me for beers!!!

Wazdakka · 30-07-2009 10:40am

Looks like it's back to getting drunk on turpentine again for me..

Time Magazine · 30-07-2009 10:40am

Slow Motion wrote: »

So, the price freeze is considered to be illegal and has been overturned!

(Just to be clear: it was that they all banded together to agree to a price freeze that was considered illegal. For obvious reasons competitors aren't allowed to all meet up and set prices because consumers always get raped.)

Vim Fuego · 30-07-2009 10:42am

There's two pubs in Dublin now doing €3 pints all day every day - The Scene under Stephen's Green Shopping Centre and The Russell Court Hotel bar I think. More of this please!

Seaneh · 30-07-2009 10:42am

It's about time thw VFI were done for anti-competitive practices.

There is a well known case of a publican in Athlone who sold all pints for €3 everyday.

He was a member of the VFI and the chairman of the Athlone brance and two other publicans came into the pub one day and demanded to speak to the owner, so they wait while the owner arrives and when he gets there start going on about "if you want the protection of the VFI you will have to bring your prices into line with the rest of us etc..." owner opens his wallet, takes out a cheque that he'd made out for his next membership fee and riped it up, threw it at them and told them to get the **** out of his pub.

They, VFI-Athlone had basically admitted, infront of an entire pub full of people, that they fix prices amongst themselves, they have no shame at all.

EdgarAllenPoo · 30-07-2009 10:42am

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Wow you sound like tonnes of fun, PM me for beers!!!

Was that a weight joke?:pac:

Mossy Monk · 30-07-2009 10:43am

I am so seldom in a pub these days a price increase will keep me out of it even more. Greedy assholes.

Slow Motion · 30-07-2009 10:46am

The Economist wrote: »

(Just to be clear: it was that they all banded together to agree to a price freeze that was considered illegal. For obvious reasons competitors aren't allowed to all meet up and set prices because consumers always get raped.)

I am well aware of the reasoning for doing it and the implications and agree with the court. I am also aware that many pubs just happened to have price increases a couple of weeks prior to the vintners gesture.

Saruman · 30-07-2009 10:46am

Probably a good thing (court ruling). I would imagine the story about publicans considering a price increase is sensationalist tripe by the indo though. Any pub that increases prices in a recession should be boycotted.

Thankfuly I do not think the pub I frequent in Dublin (when there) is a member and the type of beer I drink in a pub is not something that an increase by breweries such as diagio, heineken or any of the other multinationals effects either.

Even still, regardless of the price of beer I am lucky enough to be a home brewer so I always have a ready stock of beer that is better quality than anything you get in an average pub

I do still buy premium beer though.

gurramok · 30-07-2009 10:48am

The Economist wrote: »

Relax. The High Court case was taken because the Vintners' oh-so-lovely "price freeze" was really a "lads let's all agree to not lower prices, even though the whole country is f*cked and demand has fallen." It's a subtle, but awful, move. And was rightly ruled illegal.

Deflation is running at 5%. So a price freeze is basically the same as all the pubs agreeing a 5% increase when inflation is flat. We woudln't accept that, so well done to the Competition Authority.

Prices can now fall. Consumers, you know what to do if any publican raises their prices!

You probably know the exact figures but off the top of my head, bar sales were reported to be 10%+ down year on year but prices for alcohol went up i think around 3% considering off-licence prices have plummted, it makes you think where that price rise was.

They never cop on. They think we are stupid.

I only go to the homebrew pubs as they always have their lovely pints at 4quid a pop, OR i do go to the cheapest Diageo/Heineken themed pubs which are few and far between.

A pint of lager/bitter/stout would struggle to hit 3 pounds in the UK even in the poshest districts. Serious rip-off here.

BraziliaNZ · 30-07-2009 10:52am

that's the thing, they'll start going on about wages, costs of services etc. The UK is pretty much the same as here for all these things (probably cheaper) and you can find pints for under £2 all over the place, the dearest ones will be £2.80 or so, which is probably only 3.50 euro.

Slow Motion · 30-07-2009 10:55am

Every time I come back from a trip abroad I almost feel physically ill when I have to pay for a round in the pub! I am by no means a tightwad but the sheer blatent pay up or fcuk off attitude of publicans in this country is simply staggering. I can only speak for Dublin pubs here I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country. Anyone remember Witherspoons wanting to come into the Irish market with their cheap pints. Didn't get very far did they, I wonder why?

super_furry · 30-07-2009 10:58am

No publican in Ireland can justify the €5 to €6 per pint that they often charge. I now refuse to drink in pubs that charge these prices and honestly, couldn't care less if these rip-off places go bust.

JohnK · 30-07-2009 11:16am

The Economist wrote: »

Relax. The High Court case was taken because the Vintners' oh-so-lovely "price freeze" was really a "lads let's all agree to not lower prices, even though the whole country is f*cked and demand has fallen." It's a subtle, but awful, move. And was rightly ruled illegal.

Was it not the case that the price freeze was an upper limit on the price they could charge? In other words that they could charge whatever price they wanted but couldnt exceed a certain amount so in effect there was nothing stopping them from dropping prices all along?

Nick_oliveri · 30-07-2009 11:17am

Slow Motion wrote: »

Anyone remember Witherspoons wanting to come into the Irish market with their cheap pints. Didn't get very far did they, I wonder why?

When was that? Witherspoons ft****ingw!
The meal specials... Gorgeous.

Time Magazine · 30-07-2009 11:19am

Just some more background information on this folks: this is a long-running fight between the Competition Authority and the publicans, going back at least ten years.

But unfortunately TDs seem to favour the publicans over consumers. When this High Court action was announced, Chris Andrews TD said the Competition Authority were worse than a skinhead organisation, Ned O'Keeffe TD agreed. Dara Calleary TD really didn't grasp the thing at all, saying: "I understand the Competition Authority are taking action against the Vintners Association and the Licensed Vintners Association because they want to keep prices down. I cannot understand this. We are banging our heads, as I am sure the officials are, to try to bring down prices. However, when organisations come together to bring prices down, the Competition Authority decides to take them to court."

It should come as no surprise to anyone that all three of these anti-consumer buffoons are in Fianna Fáil.

JohnK wrote: »

Was it not the case that the price freeze was an upper limit on the price they could charge? In other words that they could charge whatever price they wanted but couldnt exceed a certain amount so in effect there was nothing stopping them from dropping prices all along?

It's complicated, but basically no. Even the High Court (which is notoriously crap at enforcing competition policy tbh) ruled that it was basically a bunch of businessmen agreeing to freeze prices to stop anyone from lowering them.

JONJO THE MISER · 30-07-2009 11:26am

I used to go to the pub 4 to 5 nights a week, now i go once every 2 weeks, why? the price of a pint is a rip off, 4 bleddin euro for a pint, i stopped going to the pub when it rose from 3.20 to 3.30 in my local 1 year and half ago now its bleedin 4 euros, so i dont want to hear pubs complaining there just too greedy, now i just go to Lidl and get my 6 pack of beamish for 1.68 a can:cool:

El Siglo · 30-07-2009 11:28am

The Economist wrote: »

Relax. The High Court case was taken because the Vintners' oh-so-lovely "price freeze" was really a "lads let's all agree to not lower prices, even though the whole country is f*cked and demand has fallen." It's a subtle, but awful, move. And was rightly ruled illegal.

Deflation is running at 5%. So a price freeze is basically the same as all the pubs agreeing a 5% increase when inflation is flat. We woudln't accept that, so well done to the Competition Authority.

Prices can now fall. Consumers, you know what to do if any publican raises their prices!

Thank you Economist, it's like a breath of fresh air reading that post!*

*And I am saying this in all sincerity I do take my pint prices seriously.

gurramok · 30-07-2009 11:29am

According to here http://www.soldiersofdestiny.org/tddrinklobbyscandal.htm

40% of FF TD's are publicans.(2006)

BraziliaNZ · 30-07-2009 11:38am

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I used to go to the pub 4 to 5 nights a week, now i go once every 2 weeks, why? the price of a pint is a rip off, 4 bleddin euro for a pint, i stopped going to the pub when it rose from 3.20 to 3.30 in my local 1 year and half ago now its bleedin 4 euros, so i dont want to hear pubs complaining there just too greedy, now i just go to Lidl and get my 6 pack of beamish for 1.68 a can:cool:

Where are you drinking where 4 euro is dear for a pint? Malin head or something?

Saruman · 30-07-2009 11:44am

I think my local is something like €3.80 for Guinness which is not bad by Irish standards, though its more (for less volume) for bottles of muck like Coors etc.

Matches · 30-07-2009 11:52am

A few years ago you could hardly get in to a pub in Dublin City on a friday evening, ooooooo how things have changed now. I agree they should drop the price of drink to get people in the door. 6.60 for a pint on templebar, daylight robbery.

For 2 pints and a glass of wine on the cill airne boat at spencer dock is €18.50, never again am I giving them my money.

Pint prices to rise again?

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