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Resolution to not converting Road bike to Hybrid just yet?!!

  • 06-06-2014 10:10am
    #1
    Jocry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭


    My wife has what would account to a brand new 2013 Giant Avail 2 which she doesnt feel comfortable on and is hoping to sell or convert to a hybrid (leaning towards selling and buying a hybrid).
    This is mainly due to the drops and ride quality.
    Because of the condition of the bike and how much she'd loose selling it Im thinking of looking along these lines as an alternative / cheap way of testing whether or not she actually needs to sell it in case further down the road she wants to get a road bike.

    My plan is:
    - Upgrade the tyres to 28"
    - Fitting something like this or this

    Im just wondering if you think fitting the adjustable stem or riser is wasting my time as this wont improve the ride position sufficiently to save her wanting to get the hybrid. Obviously the tyres will improve quality of ride to a certain degree.
    Any info / advice appreciated.
    :)


Comments

  • #2
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,641 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I would say if she's set on a hybrid just get a hybrid.

    Why does she dislike it so much? I have one. It took about three weeks or six or so spins to get used to it. I also invested in a new saddle (selle trk smp) and padded gloves and feel like I could go long distances now.


  • #3
    MB Lacey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    Did that bike come with frog levers/ cyclo cross brakes?

    Might give a bit more confidence?

    Saunier_Duval-Scott_Canada_top_mounts-480-90-480-70.jpg


  • #4
    idiottje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭idiottje


    It would be cheaper to just convert the riser and handle bars. You will need shifters and brake leavers, as well as a whole new set of cables. The frame on the Avail and the Dash are essentially the same. There is no harm in trying a stem riser though, as it may cure the issue. An extended Stem riser made a huge world of difference to me on my Defy. I am a tall rider with a belly of jelly :), so the extra height on the bars was just the job.


  • #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,135 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Just keep the Avail and buy a used hybrid to complement it. That way she can build up the cycling and then try the Avail again with a bit more experience.


  • #6
    H.E. Pennypacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭H.E. Pennypacker


    How does she not feel comfortable? Does she feel stretched out, pins & needles in her hands, generally bumpy and harsh, saddle uncomfortable, joint pain? I think that it might be important to understand what the issue is first.

    If the bike is a little too big then straight bars and an adjustable stem might help but if you're replacing the bike, make sure that if size is the issue that the same mistake isn't repeated.

    Edit, just re-read your first post. What tyre sizes and pressures (and brand) is she running? What's the issue with the drops? Too far away?


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  • #7
    idiottje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭idiottje


    H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »
    How does she not feel comfortable? Does she feel stretched out, pins & needles in her hands, generally bumpy and harsh, saddle uncomfortable, joint pain? I think that it might be important to understand what the issue is first.

    If the bike is a little too big then straight bars and an adjustable stem might help but if you're replacing the bike, make sure that if size is the issue that the same mistake isn't repeated.

    Have a search on Youtube for how to fit a bike. If it is some/all of the above, getting in the range of a good fit will solve all of these, and make the act of cycling less effort (unless she decides to go faster) and more fun (especially if she decides to go faster!)


  • #8
    Jocry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    Yeah it came with the frog levers, it's more of a case of the more "aggressive" if I should use that word, feel of leaning so much more forward than on a flat top bars.
    It has a soft enough saddle and she's probably ridden ten times or so. Just not sure if she needs a proper fit but just trying to test all avenues before she sells it.


  • #9
    Paul Kiernan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    The 28c tyres will make a huge difference. You could also fit a carbon seatpost to improve comfort. And maybe better quality padded bar tape.

    I presume you've flipped the stem and placed it as high as possible on the steerer? You could replace the stem with one which has a greater rise angle.

    Finally you could fit a carbon fork. You might lose the clearance for your 28c tyres though:).


  • #10
    H.E. Pennypacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭H.E. Pennypacker


    Jocry wrote: »
    Yeah it came with the frog levers, it's more of a case of the more "aggressive" if I should use that word, feel of leaning so much more forward than on a flat top bars.
    It has a soft enough saddle and she's probably ridden ten times or so. Just not sure if she needs a proper fit but just trying to test all avenues before she sells it.

    Its possible that the bike is too big but it might a core strength issue that'll resolve itself as she cycles more.

    Just as a matter of interest, what height is she and what size is the bike?

    What size is the stem? Would a shorter stem with a greater angle help? It should be possible to configure the bike so that its near enough the feel of a hybrid in terms of reach, but only if its the right size to start with.


  • #11
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,641 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Jocry wrote: »
    It has a soft enough saddle and she's probably ridden ten times or so.

    Not in my opinion it doesn't. Also, not really for you to judge. Everybody is different with respect to saddle comfort.


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  • #12
    Jocry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    This is the bike as she stands here

    The tyres are regular Giant SR-4 which came on the bike, size 25, inflated to about 115psi over last summer (wasnt ridden over the winter)

    She's about 5'5' / 5'6 and the bike is small in size, was bought brand new in bike shop but not a proper bike fit done, just the usual fit when you buy a bike.

    I haven't done anything to the stem yet but looking at the saddle maybe it could be brought a couple of mm's closer.

    The three main issues are the levers (which that's just practice), the ride and the stretch which causes strain on her back.


  • #13
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Jocry wrote: »
    This is the bike as she stands here

    The tyres are regular Giant SR-4 which came on the bike, size 25, inflated to about 115psi over last summer (wasnt ridden over the winter)

    She's about 5'5' / 5'6 and the bike is small in size, was bought brand new in bike shop but not a proper bike fit done, just the usual fit when you buy a bike.

    I haven't done anything to the stem yet but looking at the saddle maybe it could be brought a couple of mm's closer.

    The three main issues are the levers (which that's just practice), the ride and the stretch which causes strain on her back.

    You have a set back seat post, an inline will get her closer to bars, along with a lift on headtube you/she should be good to go


  • #14
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    I've an adjustable 130mm stem knocking about it you want to borrow one. I found the move from hybrid to road pretty difficult starting off, and found changing from ergo to compact drops helped quite a bit, as did moving from 23mm to 25mm tyres. For me, I only really started loving the road bike once I started using the drops, and still dislike descending in the hoods. It took awhile to get used to moving around the bar positions, but well worth the effort.


  • #15
    Ryath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭Ryath


    Jocry wrote: »

    The tyres are regular Giant SR-4 which came on the bike, size 25, inflated to about 115psi over last summer (wasnt ridden over the winter)

    115psi is highish for a 25mm tyre especially if you're looking for comfert 90-100 would be more appropriate and take some of road buzz out of the ride.


  • #16
    H.E. Pennypacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭H.E. Pennypacker


    The stem looks very short and probably shouldn't be any shorter. An adjustable one is definitely worth a try to bring the bars higher and closer. Its possible that the saddle is a little too far back but you'll need to see how she's positioned on the bike to know for sure - google for a guide on how to check it or have a look at this: http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/05/seat-set-back-for-road-bikes Setting it up correctly may help with the back pain.

    The tyre pressure seems very high. Have a look at this guide: http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf

    Say she's 55kg and the bike is 12kg. 45% of the total is just 30kg on the front and 37kg on the back. That guide suggests much lower tyre pressures. Might be no harm to be conservative to avoid pinch flats but 80psi seems ballpark. Tyres like Continental GP4000S will give a more comfortable ride and bar tape can be changed to help with harshness. I had a Giant with an aluminium fork so I know that they can be quite harsh.


  • #17
    Jocry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    smacl wrote: »
    I've an adjustable 130mm stem knocking about it you want to borrow one. I found the move from hybrid to road pretty difficult starting off, and found changing from ergo to compact drops helped quite a bit, as did moving from 23mm to 25mm tyres. For me, I only really started loving the road bike once I started using the drops, and still dislike descending in the hoods. It took awhile to get used to moving around the bar positions, but well worth the effort.


    Hi smacl,
    Yeah that would be fantastic if I could, then it would save buying one. We could pm for details if you want?

    And to everyone I appreciate all the info it really is very helpful so any more keep it coming :)


  • #18
    bambergbike
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭bambergbike


    Jocry wrote: »
    The three main issues are the levers (which that's just practice), the ride and the stretch.

    Are you sure the issue with the levers is only a question of familiarity with them and not one of fit?


  • #19
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jocry wrote: »
    This is the bike as she stands here

    The tyres are regular Giant SR-4 which came on the bike, size 25, inflated to about 115psi over last summer (wasnt ridden over the winter)

    She's about 5'5' / 5'6 and the bike is small in size, was bought brand new in bike shop but not a proper bike fit done, just the usual fit when you buy a bike.

    I haven't done anything to the stem yet but looking at the saddle maybe it could be brought a couple of mm's closer.

    The three main issues are the levers (which that's just practice), the ride and the stretch which causes strain on her back.

    Either that bike is too big for her or that saddle is too low. Or both.

    The saddle is below the bars, which is the opposite of the way a road bike should be set up. It jus looks all wrong to me.

    She needs a bike fit before she can decide if she should change bike.

    Where in the country are you?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #20
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Compare that to how my bike is set up here:

    http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j168/brianybrian/null-95.jpg

    I've lowered the bars since this picture was taken.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #21
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,641 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Brian? wrote: »
    Compare that to how my bike is set up here:

    http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j168/brianybrian/null-95.jpg

    I've lowered the bars since this picture was taken.

    hmm dunno, my bike doesn't look too different to op's. My saddle is slightly higher but not much and I am 5'5.


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  • #22
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    fits wrote: »
    hmm dunno, my bike doesn't look too different to op's. My saddle is slightly higher but not much and I am 5'5.

    There's actually a fairly pronounced difference. If you draw a line from the tip of your saddle to top of the steerer it will slope slightly down. In fact I'd guess if you flipped your stem your bars would be lower than your saddle.

    With the other bike the line would slope up.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #23
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Brian? wrote: »
    There's actually a fairly pronounced difference. If you draw a line from the tip of your saddle to top of the steerer it will slope slightly down. In fact I'd guess if you flipped your stem your bars would be lower than your saddle.

    With the other bike the line would slope up.

    I would have though the lower the bars in relation to saddle height, the more aggressive the posture. More aero for sure, but more flexibility in the torso required as well.


  • #24
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    smacl wrote: »
    I would have though the lower the bars in relation to saddle height, the more aggressive the posture. More aero for sure, but more flexibility in the torso required as well.

    Absolutely. The more the drop between the saddle and bars, the more agressive the position.

    However my poin is this, the way the bike is set up is wrong for one of 2 reasons.

    1. The saddle is too low. Therefore the position is unnatural and inefficient, not pleasant.

    2. If the saddle is the correct height then the bike is the wrong size and the rider will be far too stretched out.

    I could be wrong but that's what it looks like from the pic posted.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #25
    H.E. Pennypacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭H.E. Pennypacker


    fits wrote: »
    hmm dunno, my bike doesn't look too different to op's. My saddle is slightly higher but not much and I am 5'5.

    To my eye, your bars are more compact that the ones on the blue Avail - that might be another change for the OP to consider, especially as you're the same height as his wife

    Edit: might well be just hood postioning but looks like a better set up


  • #26
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Brian? wrote: »
    I could be wrong but that's what it looks like from the pic posted.

    Seems reasonable enough, though you'd really need to see a picture of the person on the bike. Given the saddle is all the way forward, I'd guess the problem is either bike size of rider flexibility. To be fair, if you're used to a reasonably upright hybrid, switching to an even slightly stretched out position on a drop bar bike can feel unnerving until you get used to it. I seem to remember swapping over from my much loved hybrid to the road bike was a total mindf*&ck for the first couple of months. First descent of the sally gap was not a happy experience, though possibly should have got used to the controls on the flat first.


  • #27
    thebouldwhacker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭thebouldwhacker


    Why does she have a road bike to start with? Did she want it or was it bought for her?
    Some people simply don't like road bikes. The ride and style between bike types is radical and swapping components will result in a Frankenbike which serves no purpose.
    If she was going out and wanted to wear shoes instead of high heals would you think of cutting a bit off the heel and tell her to put on a pair of socks?


  • #28
    Jocry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭Jocry


    thebouldwhacker wrote: »
    Why does she have a road bike to start with? Did she want it or was it bought for her?
    Some people simply don't like road bikes. The ride and style between bike types is radical and swapping components will result in a Frankenbike which serves no purpose.
    If she was going out and wanted to wear shoes instead of high heals would you think of cutting a bit off the heel and tell her to put on a pair of socks?

    haha that's actually a good analogy :)

    Basically she was looking at a hybrid but then decided to go for the road bike with the B2W. The last I want to do is make it a Frankenbike but if there were a couple of minor adjustments to make it better for her before its sold then I'd be happy to do it.

    Im beginning to agree with you the saddle height but I'll have to get her on the bike again to take a look. She does have slightly shorter legs but initially I did think the saddle was slightly lower than normal....

    The bike is a small so I would assume it should be the right size just the adjustments needed, maybe I need to just her a proper bike fit and then see!


  • #29
    mirv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 848 ✭✭✭mirv


    The shifters are mounted far too forward on the bars so they're increasing the reach. Similarly, the bars look like ergo-bend (long reach) bars and they're rotated too far upwards. The way her saddle is pointed downwards may also contribute to how she feels that she's leaning/being pushed forwards. Perhaps bring the saddle to level or pointed even a tiny bit upwards.

    When you look at the side-on view, her grip on the levers is almost past the axle of the front wheel in the horizontal direction which is very far forward considering how low her saddle is.

    Something more like this might help:

    Easton-1.jpg

    That said, I think you should get some bar tape and rewrap the bars with the levers in a higher position on the bars (closer to the stem), and the bars rotated downwards a bit (so that the wrists are in a neutral position when on the drops). Tape is only a tenner anyway. Perhaps you could get her a 38cm compact drops too - the current ergo ones look quite deep drop/long reach.

    Also, for a reasonably small lady in the 50-65kg range, she should probably be running 80-85psi front, and around 85-90psi rear.


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