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Late sign on Social Welfare - 3 times in a row

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  • 25-10-2011 6:00pm
    #1
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭


    Do all offices require you to sign on during a particular time? Is this a requirement because on the info sheet, it certainly doesn't mention this anywhere... Basically, I had to sign some acknowledgement form stating that I understood if were late signing on again, I would have to sign on once a week. But I disputed that I was not late because it was still sign-on day...

    Can you appeal this?

    Can you remove your signature from this acknowledgement?



    Thank You.


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    #2
    mp22
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 6,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭mp22


    All documents should be read carefully before you sign them.In future you need to make sure of the time slot that you are require to sign on in.

    No you cannot remove your signature from a document.
    The only appeal you will have is if you are made to sign on every week.


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    #3
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    mp22 wrote: »
    All documents should be read carefully before you sign them.In future you need to make sure of the time slot that you are require to sign on in.

    No you cannot remove your signature from a document.
    The only appeal you will have is if you are made to sign on every week.

    Thanks so much. With the risk of offending, may I ask if you are 100% certain of that?

    Was I obliged to sign that acknowledgement slip? I did read it carefully because it only contained one sentence. I was under the impression that it was compulsary(?)

    I would appreciate any other replies/inputs as regards my query too.


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    #4
    mp22
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 6,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭mp22


    Skopzz wrote: »
    Thanks so much. With the risk of offending, may I ask if you are 100% certain of that?

    Was I obliged to sign that acknowledgement slip? I did read it carefully because it only contained one sentence. I was under the impression that it was compulsary(?)

    I would appreciate any other replies/inputs as regards my query too.


    As with any answer here I presume that I am correct,the only way to be sure of your position is to call into the social and see what they have to say on the matter.


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    #5
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    mp22 wrote: »
    As with any answer here I presume that I am correct,the only way to be sure of your position is to call into the social and see what they have to say on the matter.

    In my local social welfare office, staff are discourteous and rude. I would be inclined to think they would back one another up. That's the problem.


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    #6
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    Was it work that made you turn up late? Once is acceptable, twice gets you a yellow card, third is a definite red card. Across the pond, if you behaved like that you would have your benefit cut with no notice.


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    #7
    senordingdong
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    I think you are in the right because the rules seem to vary depending on the office, but I don't think you have a chance of fighting them.


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    #8
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    senordingdong wrote: »
    I think you are in the right because the rules seem to vary depending on the office, but I don't think you have a chance of fighting them.

    How do you figure that?


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    #9
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    Was it work that made you turn up late? Once is acceptable, twice gets you a yellow card, third is a definite red card. Across the pond, if you behaved like that you would have your benefit cut with no notice.

    No and I am 100% jobless. It was my own belief that this defacto notice about sign-on times was not legally binding since it made no mention of any obligation to do so. I have always signed on during sign on day until they started to become difficult by allocating times for people to sign on. That to me was a little too much. They are trying to cover up for their gross inefficiency.


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    #10
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    Would someone advise me on the official Social Welfare policy for failure to sign on 3 times in a row?

    Thanks.


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    #11
    cee_jay
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    From citizens information website:
    You must go to the Social Welfare Local Office usually every month and declare you are still unemployed and looking for work. Your Social Welfare Local Office will give you a date and a time to sign on each month.

    www.welfare.ie is currently down so I cannot reference anything to you from this site.

    They have given you a time in which to sign - its once a month, and its all you have to do once a month to get paid. Do it, end of.
    The reason you have a specific time is because of the numbers of people currently signing. If you people weren't given a particular time, then the queues would be mayhem, and it would be a madhouse.
    If you are continually late for signing, they can make you sign on daily if they want.


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    #12
    cee_jay
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    MOD Note: By the way, this is not a forum for criticising or insulting staff of the SW department, or any government department. You can ask questions re: procedures but without insulting staff. Please read forum charter.
    Any more posts along this vein will result in bans from this forum.


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    #13
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    cee_jay wrote: »
    The reason you have a specific time is because of the numbers of people currently signing. If you people weren't given a particular time, then the queues would be mayhem, and it would be a madhouse.

    So each Social Welfare Office is allowed to set its own policy? Would this not imply inconsistency (something which the Department of Social and Family Affairs would never promote)?


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    #14
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    cee_jay wrote: »
    If you are continually late for signing, they can make you sign on daily if they want.

    For how long would that be for?


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    #15
    Keith186
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭Keith186


    Skopzz I don't think they are asking too much for you to sign on at a certain time.

    You only have to be there a short while, spare a thought for the rest of people who have to work 40 + hours to pay tax so you have this benefit.

    As cee_jay has said they are doing this to keep the queues in order so I wouldn't bother spouting on about inefficiencies in this case.

    I don't know the legalities of them forcing you to sign on daily but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

    Edit: spelling


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    #16
    Techno_Toaster
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Techno_Toaster


    You are required to sign on once every month it's a term of payment. If your late and inform them before hand then they would rearrange something for you but if your constantly not signing on they can make you sign on weekly.


    Presuming your not working, its 1 day a month for a payment you need and there are signs in the offices on the day you sign on telling you your next sign on date. It also says the date on you receipt from the post office and its the same time usually every month. So there shouldn't be a need to be constantly missing it.


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    #17
    Skopzz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Skopzz


    Keith186 wrote: »
    Skopzz I don't think they are asking too much for you to sign on at a certain time.

    You only have to be there a short while, spare a thought for the rest of people who have to work 40 + hours to pay tax so you have this benefit.

    But I have paid into the system too until loosing my job in 2009, I cannot find a suitable job. I know the tax payer is subsidizing my dole and I appreciate that. However, that is not the point right now.
    Keith186 wrote: »
    I don't know the legalities of them forcing you to sign on daily but if I was in your shoes I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.

    Err, I am not trying to find out the hard way. I am finding out whether they are allowed do something which may be outside their powers. Whether I am obliged to sign that acknowledgement and whether they can force me to sign on every week even though I AM signing on during the allocated day (just not the time).

    I needed to find out if they have any feet to stand on as regards insisting I sign on between specified times during sign on day. That is merely excerising my right to be informed as a claimant.


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    #18
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    If you think its unreasonable for the Department to ask you to sign on at any particular time, then obviously you have an idea about what arrangements you think would be fair. If i were you i would find out what time the SW inspector has his "clinic" at your local SW office. Then, i should go along and see him and put my signing on "proposal" to him. Also take that opportunity to make your observations about the unhelpful rude staff. A training course or two and maybe the odd demotion could be just what the doctor ordered.
    Plenty of folks at my local SW ofice sign on every week. Some every day, even. Its perfectly legal. When If this happens you i should hire a solicitor and take it all the way to Brussels, if need be.


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    #19
    cee_jay
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    They can insist you sign every week. If you don't then your claim will be closed. Do you really want to find that out the hard way?
    If you miss your weekly signing, it will be down to every day.
    Their reasons will be operational reasons. Not every office around the country will have the same signing days and times - so your inconsistency argument will not wash.
    If they say be there to sign at 10am, be there at 10am.

    Why don't you write a letter to the manager of your office highlighting your concerns regarding this? Or when the website is back up, you can us the Contact Us part of the site to send in your query. There is also an Information phone number you can call or email.
    In fact, there is nothing stopping you from emailing or contacting the Ministers office.

    This thread is going around in circles - you have gotten the same answer quite a number of times now. If you want to pursue it further, you need to contact the Department.


This discussion has been closed.
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