[Article] IFA calls for rural road investment

Victor · 08-02-2008 12:54am #1

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/roads.html

IFA calls for rural road investment
Thursday, 7 February 2008 20:41

The Irish Farmer's Association has called on county councils nationwide to significantly increase investment in the rural road network.

The IFA says this is following a winter that has seen alarming road deterioration with crater-like potholes and road verge collapses commonplace.

The IFA Countryside Committee chairman David Wilkinson said the very welcome and necessary investment in new motorways and bypasses cannot be at the expense of the proper maintenance and upgrading of country roads.

AdvertisementHe said many rural roads in their present state are extremely unsafe and a serious accident risk to those having to commute on a daily basis.

Mr Wilkinson said that rural homes and businesses must not be discriminated against.

He called on Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey to establish an all-party action committee of councillors in each county to prioritise the worst affected country roads and take remedial action to upgrade them immediately.

Bards · 08-02-2008 9:50am

Does the Grant that each Council gets for "Non-National Roads" not cover this:rolleyes:

invincibleirish · 08-02-2008 10:10am

Victor wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/roads.html

Dual Carriageways for all!

loyatemu · 08-02-2008 11:32am

do tractors pay road tax?
I'm sure much of the deterioration is caused by heavy agricultural vehicles.

ardmacha · 08-02-2008 11:48am

The IFA could encourage their members to facilitate road projects. Even minor works, cutting a corner etc, requires land acquisition and it is legal costs and delays as much as engineering problems that slow down road improvements.

Chris_533976 · 08-02-2008 1:11pm

They should get their fingers out and do some tarring. My road has huge potholes on it (up to a foot deep in places) and it needs sorting.

europerson · 09-02-2008 6:31pm

loyatemu wrote: »

do tractors pay road tax?

Yes.

BrianD · 10-02-2008 8:12pm

I wonder what is meant by county roads - is the R routes or are we talking about bohereens?

Ireland has one of the mosr dense road networks in Europe. The problem is that the majority of it is narrow laneways. These should have minimum maintinance but the toleration of one-off rural housing means that every one-off rurar dweller wants motorway standard paving (along with top notch telecoms and utilities) outside their door. The irony is that most of us are subsidising the lifestyles of these people.

I was in New Zealand a few years ago and noted than many of the rural roads are "unsealed" i.e just a loose stone base that they send a grader down every now and then. Maintinance costs are low. There's a lot to be said for this to be applied to many county roads.

Zoney · 10-02-2008 8:16pm

You don't even have to go out to the back of beyond to see the effects of the winter weather on the roads. There are potholes have opened up almost overnight all over the place, even in cities.

There should be sufficient maintanance provision that a pothole developing is considered an "incident" and responded to within 24 hours.

Yes, I know, we're in Ireland.

Wishbone Ash · 10-02-2008 8:29pm

loyatemu wrote: »

do tractors pay road tax?

No - I'd say the owners probably do though!:D (Sorry, I couldn't resist).

Road tax is legally required on all tractors which use public roads. €72 IIRC.

mikemac · 10-02-2008 8:35pm

loyatemu wrote: »

do tractors pay road tax?

Nope, they pay zero road tax.
However they do pay €85 in motor tax

Irish and Proud · 10-02-2008 9:47pm

I was traveling through much of Co. Wicklow today when I noticed where a tractor was bringing half a field out onto a public road. However, as a regular user of rural roads, I didn’t sense any strangeness for some reason! :rolleyes:

If farmers are looking for better road upkeep (just as the rest of us are!), then they have to be prepared to do their bit! How about hosing down the wheels on tractors before they use a public road? In some countries, I believe they require farmers to change to narrower wheels before exiting onto a public road. In other countries, I believe they require farmers to clean up after them. Also, why shouldn't farmers pay more road tax, especially as they are about to experience the real good times (as opposed to the construction industry!).

Fair is fair!

Victor · 12-02-2008 12:54pm

BrianD wrote: »

Ireland has one of the mosr dense road networks in Europe.

Not quite. We certainly have the most road per head of population, but the km of road per square km of land is similar or lower to other countries.

Also, in Ireland there are very few areas that are very remote, most of the country is within 1-2km of a paved road, even int eh wilds of Connemara http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=galway&ie=UTF8&ll=53.300518,-9.354858&spn=0.176861,0.462799&z=11

trellheim · 12-02-2008 2:11pm

There should be sufficient maintanance provision that a pothole developing is considered an "incident" and responded to within 24 hours.

Nobody wishes to cough up the extra tax required to pay for same

murphaph · 12-02-2008 7:46pm

ardmacha wrote: »

The IFA could encourage their members to facilitate road projects. Even minor works, cutting a corner etc, requires land acquisition and it is legal costs and delays as much as engineering problems that slow down road improvements.

+1. A bit of a field lost to a road improvement would cost a farmer feck all in reality but the cost to the state in legal fees alone for the transfer prevents more realignments.

Blush_01 · 24-02-2008 3:59am

If you don't mind me saying so, that's a bit naive. Every square meter lost limits a certain field's capacity for use as fodder for a herd, particularly if you're subject to strict regulation, like that in REPS (as far as I know).

Irish and Proud - There is a certain requirement that the farming community maintain the standard of roads they have used. We've been in "slurry season" since mid-January, and I know a number of farmers who've washed the roads in the evening before they finished up, as ferrying sh!t will, understandably, cause a bit of a mess. Rightly so, you make a mess, you clean it up, standard practice. Credit where it's due?

I live in a fairly rural area. We're supposed to have a bypass of our local town within the next few years, it's been planned for longer than I can remember. The bypass will probably relieve the traffic problems in the town in the evening, as trucks etc. will no longer have to pass directly through the town. But a number of farms are being rendered completely useless because they're being disected by the progress. Slightly unfair, but I guess the benefit for the majority is the prime concern. However, in the past few months a week long project was undertaken to upgrade the level crossing nearby, which blocked the main route to our local town. Instead, the main Tipperary-Nenagh traffic was diverted from its normal route up a road that was by no means able to accommodate the level of traffic (in particular trucks going to and from the local quarry) and as a result part of the ditch has collapsed into a field, and the dyke along both sides of the road is partially blocked, which obviously doesn't help with the drainage it was created for. The road quality has deteriorated more as a result of that one week than I can ever remember it having done in substantially longer periods, having lived here for over two decades. But I guess it must just be those farmers with their fancy lifestyles and tractors blocking up the public roads that other people need to use for their infinitely more important business. That has to be the sole reason for the deterioration of rural roads. Everyone knows that farmers are the worst culprits nationally for road deterioration. Plus, nobody other than a farmer would ever dream of living in a rural area - that'd make no sense at all. :rolleyes:

Zoney · 24-02-2008 11:40am

Artic lorries and construction traffic are the biggest destructor of roads.

murphaph · 24-02-2008 11:49am

Blush_01 wrote: »

If you don't mind me saying so, that's a bit naive. Every square meter lost limits a certain field's capacity for use as fodder for a herd, particularly if you're subject to strict regulation, like that in REPS (as far as I know).

I don't know the details of farming subsidies and I do believe that small farmers may struggle to make ends meet but when I see farmers only to willing to sell multiple corner 1/3 acre sites for c. 30k I become sceptical that they couldn't afford to give away at least one of those 1/3 acres to a road project which would benefit them and many others.

Blush_01 wrote: »

Irish and Proud - There is a certain requirement that the farming community maintain the standard of roads they have used. We've been in "slurry season" since mid-January, and I know a number of farmers who've washed the roads in the evening before they finished up, as ferrying sh!t will, understandably, cause a bit of a mess. Rightly so, you make a mess, you clean it up, standard practice. Credit where it's due?

Indeed, anyone who takes the diligence to do this gets a thumbs up in my opinion. I'm a motorcyclist-and I've ridden many rural byroads in slurry season (didn't know there was such a thing until now!) and it is literally heartstopping to come around a bend and hit a patch of slurry. However I accept I'm riding my bike in the countryside and the roads may be contaminated with such materials as it's a working environment. If only more building firms and indeed Fingal County Council would take such an approach.

Blush_01 wrote: »

I live in a fairly rural area. We're supposed to have a bypass of our local town within the next few years, it's been planned for longer than I can remember. The bypass will probably relieve the traffic problems in the town in the evening, as trucks etc. will no longer have to pass directly through the town. But a number of farms are being rendered completely useless because they're being disected by the progress.

In more progressive countries there are systems of compulsory land transfer between farmers when such roads are built, all independently valued and assessed. Our emotional connection to land ownership probably prevents such simple systems from working.

Blush_01 wrote: »

Slightly unfair, but I guess the benefit for the majority is the prime concern. However, in the past few months a week long project was undertaken to upgrade the level crossing nearby, which blocked the main route to our local town. Instead, the main Tipperary-Nenagh traffic was diverted from its normal route up a road that was by no means able to accommodate the level of traffic (in particular trucks going to and from the local quarry) and as a result part of the ditch has collapsed into a field, and the dyke along both sides of the road is partially blocked, which obviously doesn't help with the drainage it was created for. The road quality has deteriorated more as a result of that one week than I can ever remember it having done in substantially longer periods, having lived here for over two decades. But I guess it must just be those farmers with their fancy lifestyles and tractors blocking up the public roads that other people need to use for their infinitely more important business. That has to be the sole reason for the deterioration of rural roads. Everyone knows that farmers are the worst culprits nationally for road deterioration. Plus, nobody other than a farmer would ever dream of living in a rural area - that'd make no sense at all. :rolleyes:

I agree with you all the way to the end.....farmers are often their own worst greedy enemies! If they wouldn't sell sites left right and centre for quick money then there wouldn't be the option for so many people to build in such inappropiate places. Planning officers and councillors have singularly failed to protect our countryside from development but the farmers could have easily done so by simply holding on to all their land for faming on.

Chris_533976 · 24-02-2008 12:44pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

They should get their fingers out and do some tarring. My road has huge potholes on it (up to a foot deep in places) and it needs sorting.

My road had the 'shovel-o-tar' treatment to fill the holes

Without a roller though, the cars push the tar down. Or in this case a tractor, that left tyre grooves in the new tar.

Still, best we could hope for down my stretch of the woods. The council was looking for the residents to pay for the tarring of the cul de sac road. The council were told to shove it, because of the public beach at the bottom of the road that tourists drive to.

Victor · 24-02-2008 9:57pm

Blush_01 wrote: »

If you don't mind me saying so, that's a bit naive. Every square meter lost limits a certain field's capacity for use as fodder for a herd, particularly if you're subject to strict regulation, like that in REPS (as far as I know).

It not unknown for farmer or other land owners to cede a section of land at a hazardous location for £1/€1. It helps them sleep at night.

I live in a fairly rural area. We're supposed to have a bypass of our local town within the next few years, it's been planned for longer than I can remember. The bypass will probably relieve the traffic problems in the town in the evening, as trucks etc. will no longer have to pass directly through the town. But a number of farms are being rendered completely useless because they're being disected by the progress.

And there are many access roads and accommodation bridges provided in such circumstances or alternatively, disturbance payments are made.

mikemac · 24-02-2008 10:15pm

murphaph wrote: »

I don't know the details of farming subsidies and I do believe that small farmers may struggle to make ends meet but when I see farmers only to willing to sell multiple corner 1/3 acre sites for c. 30k I become sceptical that they couldn't afford to give away at least one of those 1/3 acres to a road project which would benefit them and many others.

Lol

You expect a farmer to give away land? Believe it or not, it's difficult to get permission to build anything in rural areas. And most rural land is useless for development and will only only ever achieve agricultural prices.
So having land on a main road (access for sites) or in a scenic area gives a once in a generation chance to make a killing. Like winning the lotto!
Once a farmer sells land the family will NEVER get it back though they may have owned it for generations.
You're in D15 muraph, an area that has seen massive developement. If you owned land I gurantee you'd try to get the highest possible price.
Or would you give some away in the public interest :rolleyes:. I realise you are talking about a small area for road widening but most rural housing sites are small too.

murphaph wrote: »

In more progressive countries there are systems of compulsory land transfer between farmers when such roads are built, all independently valued and assessed. Our emotional connection to land ownership probably prevents such simple systems from working.

From my understanding of CPO you get the current price of the land. If you fight a CPO in court and lose (and lose you shall!) then legal costs are deducted from your payout.

murphaph wrote: »

I agree with you all the way to the end.....farmers are often their own worst greedy enemies! If they wouldn't sell sites left right and centre for quick money then there wouldn't be the option for so many people to build in such inappropiate places. Planning officers and councillors have singularly failed to protect our countryside from development but the farmers could have easily done so by simply holding on to all their land for faming on.

As above, agricultural land may be only worth 1k-2k per acre. If you get permission, multiply this by 50. Who wouldn't sell?
You are right though, the bungalow blitz in rural areas has gone way too far but it's not evenly distributed.
West Clare is covered in holiday homes empty for most of the year. In North Tipperary it's next to impossible to build in a rural area as the council want people in towns. Different councils means different policies even if the counties are beside each other

murphaph · 24-02-2008 10:26pm

That's fine, bit if farmers are only too happy to sell 1/3 acre sites wherever they can then they can shut up about road improvements and shut up about impatient commuters behind them when they are tying to work the land. They have helped breed this problem of rural byways becoming commuter feeder roads by selling land passed to them (in the main).

As for North Tipp...I didn't know they were a restictive LA and FAIR PLAY if they are. I'll add them to the ones I know who want people to live in towns....Fingal (probably the most difficult rural county to get permission in), Meath, Wicklow. Cavan is a disgrace and you can see it as soon as you cross from Meath into it.

I was struck recently on a trip to buy a bike in the north of england. I simply couldn't believe how rural the space was between Manchester and Sheffield. Hardly a house in sight, and this is in one of the most densely populated islands in the world.

[Article] IFA calls for rural road investment

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