Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish rail conjob

Options
  • 06-08-2006 10:34am
    #1
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭


    A few days ago I bought a train ticket from Maynooth to Drogheda (single). Price=€18.

    Then I discovered that it was only €12.50 from Dublin to Drogheda (it's only about €2.70 from Maynooth to Dublin).

    Why the hell would I be fleeced for buying the ticket in one go?

    Where's the best place to take a complaint about this?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    I assume you dealt with a human in Drogheda as such there is a way to screw IE, the charter states

    "We will endeavour to sell you the most appropriate ticket to meet your expressed needs."http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/home/customer_charter.asp#4

    So cheapest is clearly what you want

    Letter to Customer Services Intercity Connolly Station Dublin 1 include the ticket if you hear nothing back in 14 days drop me a line

    This does happen due to promotions midweek offers between two stations and that is legal, its cheaper day return Athy Dublin than Kildare Dublin due to business reasons but it did take IE 3 weeks to come up with that cover story

    BTW its 2.80 to Maynooth


  • Options
    #3
    Diaspora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 213 ✭✭Diaspora


    It is not just an Irish based anomoly a UK example would be London - Manchester £101 each way wheras it is possible to buy a standard single from London to Dublin for £24 jump off the train at Crewe and buy a standard single to Manchester from there for £9.50

    The human factor being the common link


  • Options
    #4
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Marko,

    I bought the ticket from a vending machine in Maynooth (I was travelling Maynooth-Drogheda), but it still seems bizarre that there is such a discrepancy in the system.

    I will be following it up though.


  • Options
    #5
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Its actually a lot worse than you think

    Any chance you could scan/photograph the ticket and email it to me (mark.gleeson@platform11.org) I can prove the two ticket cost but not the through ticket price and I really want to get IE on this.


  • Options
    #6
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Diaspora wrote:
    It is not just an Irish based anomoly a UK example would be London - Manchester £101 each way wheras it is possible to buy a standard single from London to Dublin for £24 jump off the train at Crewe and buy a standard single to Manchester from there for £9.50

    The human factor being the common link
    But they have thought of that

    6. When the fare to an intermediate station exceeds the fare to a more distant station, no person shall, for the purpose of travelling to such intermediate station, take or use or attempt to use a ticket for the more distant station with intent to avoid payment of the additional fare to such intermediate station. The liability to or infliction of any penalty incurred by the contravention of this Bye-Law shall not prejudice any right of the Board to treat such ticket as forfeited and to recover the full fare for the distance actually travelled by the offender.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,960 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Back in the early 1990s this anomoly used to exist with the Dublin Bus 33B route. The fare from Portrane to Dublin was £2.20. The fare from Portrane to Donabate was 80p.From Donabate to Dublin was £1.10 giving a total of £1.90. Therefore passengers were penalised 30p for buying a ticket for the entire route.


  • Options
    #8
    Diaspora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 213 ✭✭Diaspora


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    But they have thought of that

    6. When the fare to an intermediate station exceeds the fare to a more distant station, no person shall, for the purpose of travelling to such intermediate station, take or use or attempt to use a ticket for the more distant station with intent to avoid payment of the additional fare to such intermediate station. The liability to or infliction of any penalty incurred by the contravention of this Bye-Law shall not prejudice any right of the Board to treat such ticket as forfeited and to recover the full fare for the distance actually travelled by the offender.


    Inoperable in reality as an individual could reasonably have received a phonecall en route cancelling the initial reason for travel and decide that they were close enough to visit a relative or freind so as to recoup something from the particular day.

    A computer calculated system on a per kilometre basis is the only equitable system for standard fares bearing in mind that both tickets were issued without restriction on 'any permitted route'

    This does not prejudice the rail operators from issuing whatever restrictions they wish on any non-standard ticket


  • Options
    #9
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,854 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    Its actually a lot worse than you think

    Any chance you could scan/photograph the ticket and email it to me (mark.gleeson@platform11.org) I can prove the two ticket cost but not the through ticket price and I really want to get IE on this.

    I'll take a pic of the ticket tonight and mail it to you tomorrow.


  • Options
    #10
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Diaspora wrote:
    Inoperable in reality as an individual could reasonably have received a phonecall en route cancelling the initial reason for travel and decide that they were close enough to visit a relative or freind so as to recoup something from the particular day.

    A computer calculated system on a per kilometre basis is the only equitable system for standard fares bearing in mind that both tickets were issued without restriction on 'any permitted route'

    This does not prejudice the rail operators from issuing whatever restrictions they wish on any non-standard ticket

    The through Rail/Sea tickets to Dublin are not standard tickets as you put it as they involve onward travel to another country with outside operators. They would be in the category of promotional fares, albeit ones that have been around for decades. Open single and return tickets are based on distance and train service classification.

    The UK rail fares matrix is one of the most complex on the planet, the printed manual is the size of a phonebook and that doesn't include the numerous advance booking fares. There are thousands of similar anomolies throughout it.


  • Options
    #11
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Wishbone Ash wrote:
    Back in the early 1990s this anomoly used to exist with the Dublin Bus 33B route. The fare from Portrane to Dublin was £2.20. The fare from Portrane to Donabate was 80p.From Donabate to Dublin was £1.10 giving a total of £1.90. Therefore passengers were penalised 30p for buying a ticket for the entire route.

    OT I know but considering how much people complain about fare rises I thought I'd point out that now, 15 years later it is possible to get a ticket for the same journey for €1.65 (£1.30)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Diaspora
    Closed Accounts Posts: 213 ✭✭Diaspora


    I don't see how a ticket that can be bought upon demand at any time that is valid on any permitted route can be described as anything other than standard even if it does allow the user to use a supplemental service involving another service provider which in the case of Stena Line was a subsidiary company of Britrail until a decade or so ago.


    As you say every country has their anomilies but that is the largest I've seen from a lack of restriction point of view


  • Options
    #13
    Shanegggg
    Registered Users Posts: 275 ✭✭Shanegggg


    I agree there are conning people out of money. Like i bought a train ticket for Dublin to Limerick monthly return for €53 and then a few weeks later bought another from Birdhill (near limerick) to dublin return for €26!!! How does that make sense!! :confused:

    Seems like there conning everyone up here in dublin. :mad:


  • Options
    #14
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Caveat Emptor

    They are entirelly within their rights.


  • Options
    #15
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    You are not supposed to know or understand the ticketing system on British Rail. While charging per kilometer seems the most logical and equitable way of charging for rail tickets, its not the method that maximises revenue for the transport provider on one hand, or provides the best value for money on the other.

    Therefore, when travelling in Britain, treat long distance rail travel as you would a flight with Ryanair. If you want to travel on the day, God help your wallet. If you know when your travelling in advance, then by all means, go and get the bargains.

    There will be anomalies in all land based transport systems. If you find a cheaper way of travelling, and it abides by all the rules of the eleventh commandment (Thou shalt not get caught), its relatively honest, then by all means go for it.

    A transport company is like the taxman. They will never tell you what you are entitled to, or how to get the bargains. You have to look, and do your research, and see what ticket best suits you. Then you'll get the bargains.


  • Options
    #16
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    There is some logic in things, eg no one uses Bridhill so the fare is artificially low so people might use it, thats the promotional fare excuse

    Logically A to B via C where C is on the way should be the same price or cheaper than A to C and C to B. Thats true if its say Cork Belfast. I can understand if a promotion is on going between two stations but that doesn't apply here

    UK is a whole different kettle of fish since the open return fare has been separate from the apex fare for decades and there is yield management going on. Irish Rail is still a open standard any journey outfit so you should get the cheapest ticket by default

    There are tricks but for a simple single you should not have to resort to them. Certain rail only monthly tickets work on the validators on the 90 bus, its not listed as doing that but it does


  • Options
    #17
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Shanegggg wrote:
    I agree there are conning people out of money. Like i bought a train ticket for Dublin to Limerick monthly return for €53 and then a few weeks later bought another from Birdhill (near limerick) to dublin return for €26!!! How does that make sense!! :confused:

    Seems like there conning everyone up here in dublin. :mad:

    It would seem there is a cheap return fare from stations on the Limerick to Ballybrophy line to Dublin (excluding Limerick and Ballybrophy) but not from Dublin.

    Dublin-Limerick €53 Limerick - Dublin €53
    Dublin - Ballybrophy €31 Ballybrophy - Dublin €31
    Dublin - Birdhill €51 Birdhill - Dublin €26

    It is possible to use the cheap return via Limerick or Ballybrophy.


  • Options
    #18
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    There is some logic in things, eg no one uses Bridhill so the fare is artificially low so people might use it, thats the promotional fare excuse

    Applying it in the other direction would have the same effect as well though.


  • Options
    #19
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Athy Dublin return is cheaper than Dublin Athy, its a business choice, you are far more likely to travel Birdhill Dublin return than Dublin Birdhill

    I can live with that, I can't live with paying more for a single ticket when it is cheaper buy two


  • Options
    #20
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Diaspora wrote:
    I don't see how a ticket that can be bought upon demand at any time that is valid on any permitted route can be described as anything other than standard even if it does allow the user to use a supplemental service involving another service provider which in the case of Stena Line was a subsidiary company of Britrail until a decade or so ago.
    The ticket is still subject to their terms and conditions.


  • Options
    #21
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    Athy Dublin return is cheaper than Dublin Athy, its a business choice, you are far more likely to travel Birdhill Dublin return than Dublin Birdhill

    I can live with that, I can't live with paying more for a single ticket when it is cheaper buy two

    Maybe you are paying for the convenience of not having to get off the train at maynooth to buy an onward ticket ;)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    nipplenuts wrote:
    Maybe you are paying for the convenience of not having to get off the train at maynooth to buy an onward ticket ;)
    It would be Connolly, not Maynooth (on Maynooth-Drogheda), but you need to change trains anyway.

    If you pass through Maynooth on your way to Athy, I would worry. :D


  • Options
    #23
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    The semi-state BR managed to make APTIS work back in the 80's when computers were a one-hit-wonder for CIE. You could buy a ticket from any station to any other anywhere in the UK.


  • Options
    #24
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Any station to any station including Northern Ireland has been available since at least 1994, I got a quote from Dublin to Larne last year in under 30 seconds. Most people don't know that, CIE was and is still infact where well ahead of BR on several operational fronts (eg cab signaling and secure radio) there was no need for a clever computer system for ticketing when there existed only one fare between each station BR had an insanely complex pricing structure

    That why the problems reported here are so incredible

    The 1960's era CIE Almex system in theory could do that I have no way of checking


  • Options
    #25
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Here's another example

    Nenagh to Dublin monthly return is €25
    Dublin to Nenagh monthly return is €40

    Makes no sense to me:confused:
    It's the exact same journey


  • Options
    #26
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    No its not the exact same one starts in Dublin one starts in Nenagh its different thats legal and common place to promote travel from Nenagh to Dublin which very very few people use. There is a very complex reason that explains why its not allowed in the reverse

    Buy Dublin Nenagh return it is permissable to travel to Thurles and return from Thurles but Thurles won't issue you Nenagh Dublin return

    The fare Nenagh Dublin return is a promotional fare where as the Dublin Nenagh fare represents the actual full fare the Nenagh Dublin fare can be withdrawn without notice there is no way to contest that since its promotional fare and since it is below the fare agreed with the DoT consider yourself lucky it exists

    The example here was a normal single ticket between two stations in the Greater Dublin Region, no promotional fare applies and there is an error in the fares matrix which is overcharging


  • Options
    #27
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    I've noticed lots of ads on Luas platforms and trams promoting the Luas add-on when connecting from a train.
    Is this add-on available if your journey starts by Luas?


  • Options
    #28
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    No since the RPA have a bull**** excuse saying it can't be done, Howth Heuston via Luas is no problem for the booking office in Howth.

    A software update allowing you to buy any station ex Heuston to Dublin City Centre by both ticket vending machines and online reservations is coming. As it stands to today any IE booking office can issue a ticket valid on Luas for a journey that requires a transfer and that ticket is dual valid Luas or Bus

    Eg if you are standing at Abbey Street stop go into the CIE travel centre and ask for a ticket from Dublin city centre to any destination ex Heuston and walk out and board tram, the add on is €1 single €2 return compared to €1.40/€2.60 if you bought the Luas ticket separate


Advertisement