Solid fuel boiler in garage recommendations

F.D · 11-09-2014 12:21pm #1

Looking to replace the oil boiler that runs our underfloor heating with a solid fuel boiler
had looked at wood gasification boilers but have decided against it due to the cost and availability of turf etc

Has anyone got one installed in there garage along with a buffer tank, if so what make is it and how well is it working ?

i seen a few models from eastern Europe that would have a firebox a little bigger than a range all the way up to one irish made that has a big door that opens on the front, which would save on the wood processing
most claim one burn a day and maybe a top up in the evening would be enough to keep the heat in the buffer tank
prices seem to range from 1800 up to 5 k ball park figures for the burner

any information would be appreciated

zoom_cool · 11-09-2014 7:39pm

Hi my father is after install one of these boilers

http://www.joule.ie/uploads/images/ligna%20boilers/Joule%20Ligna%20Boilers-web.pdf

Joule Ligna S a 23KW one he had a Atmos Gasification boiler good boiler but his problem was keeping it feed with dry timber.

The Joule boiler is actual a SAS UWT boiler http://www.sas.busko.pl/en/products/sas-uwt.html

He has only lit it twice only installed a week ago but it seems to be very good.

There is a guy in Joule in Dublin if you want to speak to him I can give u his contact details.

My father was looking at the Defro which is also good but the SAS was a little bit cheaper and looks to be built as good.

F.D · 12-09-2014 1:38pm

zoom_cool wrote: »

Hi my father is after install one of these boilers

http://www.joule.ie/uploads/images/ligna%20boilers/Joule%20Ligna%20Boilers-web.pdf

Joule Ligna S a 23KW one he had a Atmos Gasification boiler good boiler but his problem was keeping it feed with dry timber.

The Joule boiler is actual a SAS UWT boiler http://www.sas.busko.pl/en/products/sas-uwt.html

He has only lit it twice only installed a week ago but it seems to be very good.

There is a guy in Joule in Dublin if you want to speak to him I can give u his contact details.

My father was looking at the Defro which is also good but the SAS was a little bit cheaper and looks to be built as good.

Thanks for the information i will look at the links, it would be interesting to hear how much one burn will heat,
do you know if it take long to start a fire in it, or do you have to wait around for a little while to make sure its going and then fill it up

zoom_cool · 12-09-2014 2:58pm

You would have to wait around just to make sure Fire has started but once going approx 15min you can load it up. It is controlled by a PID computer controller I have attached the link.

http://www.sas.busko.pl/en/images/stories/sas/serwis/instrukcje_obslugi/sterowniki/wspolne/ST-850zPID_ENG.PDF

Not sure yet how long one fill will last I will keep you posted.

mrblack · 13-09-2014 11:20pm

I just had a karpat 49kw boiler installed last week in garage with a direct connection to a pressurised system. No buffer tank necessary as the DHW cylinder is 300l and there are 4 towel rads taking heat all the time even if all zones are off.

The heat is very impressive, but can take 20 mins to start delivering heat to house.

Messy enough to clean out too but running costs are cheap!

We use about two armfuls of timber & turf daily with more at weekends expected when its colder. Once fire is lit and fan switches off at 60 degrees C I throw in a big uncut lump of timber & turf which keeps the rads hot for 4-5 hours. The heat dies down slowly which is very pleasant at nighttime when going to bed.

Mrblack

F.D · 18-09-2014 3:17pm

After looking at the KOTŁOSPAW solid fuel burners there sold by kennedy boilers earlier this year they seem to be well made and fairly OK price wise
they look very similar to the Joule one mentioned earlier, so i guess they are all pretty much the same, so it will be just a case of going with who's local and can give back up etc
Just need to see where is the best place to get a buffer tank now

zoom_cool · 19-09-2014 12:48pm

I am not sure they are the same as the Joule has a Flue thermostat and there is a big difference in the weight of the boilers e.g Joule 23KW is 370Kg where the KOTŁOSPAW is 263KG for 24KW

F.D · 26-09-2014 3:12pm

zoom_cool wrote: »

I am not sure they are the same as the Joule has a Flue thermostat and there is a big difference in the weight of the boilers e.g Joule 23KW is 370Kg where the KOTŁOSPAW is 263KG for 24KW

Only getting back to this now, thats a big difference in weight alright What advantage would the Flue thermostat have to the operation of the unit ? just curious as i seen another make at the ploughing this week with it fitted also a Kolton Master the agents are KW boilers http://kolton.eu/work/master-2/

zoom_cool · 06-10-2014 2:32pm

It regulates the FAN for more efficient fuel burning if there is too much temp in flue heat escaping it cuts the FAN down to allow temp reduce. It monitors it for more efficiency.

zoom_cool · 06-10-2014 2:33pm

How much for the Kolton boiler it looks good?

F.D · 06-10-2014 10:01pm

zoom_cool wrote: »

How much for the Kolton boiler it looks good?

around 2000 euro for the 27 kw delivered it does look like a better built boiler

tinofapples · 07-02-2015 4:15pm

What has been typical install costs with these boilers ? Will more than likely install one of these boilers as a direct replacement for my Kedco 24kw wood pellet boiler. Turf and timber come my way easier and cheaper than wood pellets ;-)

mrblack · 09-02-2015 6:38pm

My Karpat cost €850 to install last September which went to pay the plumber and his assistant for a day and a half plus all the pipework.

The purchase price of the karpat boiler unit including delivery was double that again.

Then I had to install a bigger than expected circulation pump as the water is going from garage up to the 3rd floor converted attic which I was warned would necessitate a bigger pump than average. The extra powerful pump (a 10 metre model) added another chunk to the price.

But so far this year have used less than half the kerosene we would have used by now. So I am happy even at the current kero prices.

Unfortunately da Wife wont lift a finger to use it though as the oil burner switch is too much of a temptation for her!!

pboots · 06-03-2015 4:05pm

mrblack wrote: »

I just had a karpat 49kw boiler installed last week in garage with a direct connection to a pressurised system. No buffer tank necessary as the DHW cylinder is 300l and there are 4 towel rads taking heat all the time even if all zones are off.

The heat is very impressive, but can take 20 mins to start delivering heat to house.

Messy enough to clean out too but running costs are cheap!

We use about two armfuls of timber & turf daily with more at weekends expected when its colder. Once fire is lit and fan switches off at 60 degrees C I throw in a big uncut lump of timber & turf which keeps the rads hot for 4-5 hours. The heat dies down slowly which is very pleasant at nighttime when going to bed.

Mrblack

How are you getting on with the karpat boiler. I am looking at that one myself and a defro boiler. The karpat is a cast iron boiler which I can see lasting a lifetime. My only concern is if it's way over sized for the house. I was told to put in the 49kw as well but with the defro I was recommended to put in a 25kw. A few people I have been talking to are burning a lot of fuel in the karpat and only one fill in the defro. How do you find it after using it for a while

Latro · 07-03-2015 5:40pm

pboots wrote: »

How are you getting on with the karpat boiler. I am looking at that one myself and a defro boiler. The karpat is a cast iron boiler which I can see lasting a lifetime. My only concern is if it's way over sized for the house. I was told to put in the 49kw as well but with the defro I was recommended to put in a 25kw. A few people I have been talking to are burning a lot of fuel in the karpat and only one fill in the defro. How do you find it after using it for a while

25KW? 49KW?!? You people are crazy. What do you want to heat with them? A block of apartments?

Get the smallest available! Ideally 13-15KW.

clappyhappy · 07-03-2015 5:52pm

Does the garage have to be attached to the house for this to work? My garage is about 50 feet away from the house. Would tarmac have to be dug up to get one of these working, pipes laid etc?

Latro · 07-03-2015 6:06pm

clappyhappy wrote: »

Does the garage have to be attached to the house for this to work? My garage is about 50 feet away from the house. Would tarmac have to be dug up to get one of these working, pipes laid etc?

It does not have to be attached, the tarmac would have to be cut and patched though.

pboots · 07-03-2015 8:17pm

Your average oil boiler is 25 to 30kw so why would you go for a 15kw especially with a buffer tank. If you like waiting for the tank to heat up go ahead

Dtp1979 · 07-03-2015 8:30pm

pboots wrote: »

Your average oil boiler is 25 to 30kw so why would you go for a 15kw especially with a buffer tank. If you like waiting for the tank to heat up go ahead

Your average boiler is 15-26 kW.

durtybit · 07-03-2015 8:49pm

mrblack wrote: »

My Karpat cost €850 to install last September which went to pay the plumber and his assistant for a day and a half plus all the pipework.

The purchase price of the karpat boiler unit including delivery was double that again.

Then I had to install a bigger than expected circulation pump as the water is going from garage up to the 3rd floor converted attic which I was warned would necessitate a bigger pump than average. The extra powerful pump (a 10 metre model) added another chunk to the price.

But so far this year have used less than half the kerosene we would have used by now. So I am happy even at the current kero prices.

Unfortunately da Wife wont lift a finger to use it though as the oil burner switch is too much of a temptation for her!!

Any link to installation regarding the flue? I have a boiler house with a small flue for the oil, does this need a full chimney as normal?

Latro · 07-03-2015 9:28pm

pboots wrote: »

Your average oil boiler is 25 to 30kw so why would you go for a 15kw especially with a buffer tank. If you like waiting for the tank to heat up go ahead

I have 19KW and it is idling most of the time producing more sludge that has to be cleaned eventually. The house is 200sqm @ 20 degrees 24 hours per day.

If I had to do it again I'd go for the smallest available and it would be still oversized.
The sizes you guys are quoting would be too much even for Siberian winters.

Solid fuel is not like oil when you can switch it on and off as you wish.
Ideally it should be working most of the time with small reserve for "colder" (-5 to -10) spells.

Anything bigger than 20kw is serious overkill for almost any house in Ireland but you will probably get more "just in case" which is big mistake.

theduffer · 30-03-2015 2:54pm

Hi Folks

Can anyone tell me if any of these models would be suitable to burn turf only? I have access to a supply of turf, I would be interested in putting one of these in a garage if I could fill it in the morning, light it and walk away knowing that the house would be heated for the day on one fill. Can anyone tell me if this is possible for a 2600 sq foot house?

F.D · 30-03-2015 3:34pm

theduffer wrote: »

Hi Folks

Can anyone tell me if any of these models would be suitable to burn turf only? I have access to a supply of turf, I would be interested in putting one of these in a garage if I could fill it in the morning, light it and walk away knowing that the house would be heated for the day on one fill. Can anyone tell me if this is possible for a 2600 sq foot house?

Ours will burn all turf if you wish but i generally put in a mix with timber etc
We light it in the morning and once its going and nearly has the first burn done we top it up, by the time you get home, there could be still some hot bits in the bottom the relight it again, ours is running with a buffer tank and underfloor heating so i guess if the house does not call for heat the buffer gets it, maybe if it was direct it would burn away longer in the fire box in idle mode

theduffer · 30-03-2015 3:43pm

F.D wrote: »

Ours will burn all turf if you wish but i generally put in a mix with timber etc
We light it in the morning and once its going and nearly has the first burn done we top it up, by the time you get home, there could be still some hot bits in the bottom the relight it again, ours is running with a buffer tank and underfloor heating so i guess if the house does not call for heat the buffer gets it, maybe if it was direct it would burn away longer in the fire box in idle mode

Hi F.D,

Thanks for the information. What type and size boiler did you go for? Would i be correct in assuming when you light it for the first burn you get 8 hours before the need to refill the boiler? How much turf does it take in one fill? Sorry for all the questions!!!

mrblack · 30-03-2015 5:54pm

The 49kw karpat can heat the whole house including large converted attic plus water no bother at all. It does need 2 fills though each evening. First at 6pm and then again at 8:30ish. That's at 45degrees setting which means it modulates down a lot and I close the draught door as soon as possible.
If its colder and I set it to 50 or 55 degrees then 3 fills are needed. Its a lovely pleasant heat though and the house stays warm then till midnight so the rads are cooling as we fall into the leaba and its very pleasant rather than stifling hot which it often is with oil as the rads tend to be very hot unlike from the solid fuel where between 45-50 degrees is the typical rad temp.

If I use the karpat to heat only the DHC then one fill lasts 4+hours and I have seen that the temp rises up to 83 degrees as the 300l DHC plus towel rads are only just able to keep the water from boiling over-I got a scare the first time this happened as I though the auto release might kick in. Now I don't use the karpat to heat the DHC by itself and always have upstairs or downstairs sucking heat as well.

So far I estimate have saved at least one tank or 1000l of oil this winter which means that the unit has saved 25% of its cost already after 7 months.

We may not be the typical user profile though as oil heats house in morning for a half hour and then in evening the karpat takes over.
Turf works quite well as I start with timber and small amount of coal and then turf only. This suits as its burns at a lower temp and it is easier to fill the boiler with turf than coal. We haven't used it that much lately as the weather is a bit warmer and oil much cheaper. I think of the karpat as my hedge against oil prices:-)

I would recommend the karpat but in a smaller size I think if I was at it again.
I matched the 49kw Karpat to my oil boiler (58kw) but as the solid fuel is burning all the time an even comparatively lower power level might be OK I think. My biggest fear was installing a system that only mildly heats the house and then feeling foolish as I read had happened to one or two lads in a few posts on boards over past few years. I think zoning is the way around the sizing problem. Heat only the used areas and swap the zones frequently to distribute any excess heat.

Next winter I am thinking of getting a pallet of coal and see if just one fill lasts from 6- 11pm which would be nifty.

pboots wrote: »

How are you getting on with the karpat boiler. I am looking at that one myself and a defro boiler. The karpat is a cast iron boiler which I can see lasting a lifetime. My only concern is if it's way over sized for the house. I was told to put in the 49kw as well but with the defro I was recommended to put in a 25kw. A few people I have been talking to are burning a lot of fuel in the karpat and only one fill in the defro. How do you find it after using it for a while

quietsailor · 08-04-2015 2:29pm

Hello Folks;

to those of you that have the solid fuel boilers can I ask you some questions please;

1. Do you have someone at home all day so they can check the boiler & top up fuel as needed?
2. Is anyone in a situation when the house empties for the day (both parents work away from the home)?
3. Can it be ran on a single "fill" of fuel from morning to evening?
4. Is it possible to automate the filling of the boiler so you could load 2-3 days fuel and have 2-3 days ash storage?

I had always thought that heating with solid fuel only came from aga/stanley style stoves, or smaller wood burning (sitting room type) stoves with back boilers I hadn't realised there are full on external solid fuel boilers so thank you for the info on the thread already, it's very interesting reading

mrblack · 08-04-2015 11:05pm

1) No one at home during day mostly. I light it up at evening as wife says its too dirty for her!
2)Yes
3) A single fill all day-Only Coal would do that but it would be a big pain just before work in work attire!!
4) Some SF boilers have an option of an automatic coal slack filler I was informed when buying ours last Autumn.

Unfortunately the direct plumbed SF boiler like mine requires refueling once or twice per evening. If you install a buffer tank then this might partially reduce the refueling frequency.

There is a Lithuanian SF boiler (tall yellow yoke called a Stropuva) whose USP was that with a good fill of coal it would stay on for 3 days IIRC.

mrblack

theduffer · 09-04-2015 9:37am

mrblack wrote: »

1) No one at home during day mostly. I light it up at evening as wife says its too dirty for her!
2)Yes
3) A single fill all day-Only Coal would do that but it would be a big pain just before work in work attire!!
4) Some SF boilers have an option of an automatic coal slack filler I was informed when buying ours last Autumn.

Unfortunately the direct plumbed SF boiler like mine requires refueling once or twice per evening. If you install a buffer tank then this might partially reduce the refueling frequency.

There is a Lithuanian SF boiler (tall yellow yoke called a Stropuva) whose USP was that with a good fill of coal it would stay on for 3 days IIRC.

mrblack

Thanks for that info. I have seen the Stropuva on donedeal, does anyone know someone with one or seen it working????

This is the model im interested in, but its hard to get a review from someone on how it works for them

quietsailor · 09-04-2015 1:17pm

mrblack wrote: »

1) No one at home during day mostly. I light it up at evening as wife says its too dirty for her!
2)Yes
3) A single fill all day-Only Coal would do that but it would be a big pain just before work in work attire!!
4) Some SF boilers have an option of an automatic coal slack filler I was informed when buying ours last Autumn.

Unfortunately the direct plumbed SF boiler like mine requires refueling once or twice per evening. If you install a buffer tank then this might partially reduce the refueling frequency.

There is a Lithuanian SF boiler (tall yellow yoke called a Stropuva) whose USP was that with a good fill of coal it would stay on for 3 days IIRC.

mrblack

Thanks for that Mr Black, that's exactly what I needed to know

zoom_cool · 27-06-2015 10:43pm

If you where look for something more automated you should look at a coal boiler with integrated feeder.

sonic2810 · 16-08-2015 7:43am

Hi looking at the soildmaster boiler anyone any feedback on them

Solid fuel boiler in garage recommendations

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