Crimson Petal and the White Spoilers BBC 2

yimrsg · 03-04-2011 1:08am #1

Note:
I've never started a thread here so apologies if any of this needs amending or editing to keep it in line with other threads. I've added spoilers to the title just to be on the safe side.

I recently saw the preview for this advertised on the bbc and remembered the incredibly detailed book which I thoroughly enjoyed. The characters and settings are all vividly brought to life by Faber who lays out to the reader, a lavish world. If the tv series can approach the book's standing then I think it will be good watching. The level of detail present in the book means that to do it justice then it needs the ample duration of a mini series to completely tell the entire story.

The cast is also very well known with Richard E Grant, Gillian Anderson & Chris O'Dowd the standout names. When I read it was Chris O'Dowd in the role of William Rackham, he didn't strike me as a good choice, as to me he'll always be Roy from the I.T. Crowd. But then I remembered the real star of the book was Sugar and this clip allayed my fears over questionable casting. In a few sentences she has enthralled him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRiaD69JmF4

On finding the highly-sought Sugar in the Fireside Inn, William Rackham introduces himself using the alias, George Hunt. He belittlingly adds “with an H”. When asked her name she merely says “Sugar is all there is to my name”.
As they make small talk, William reveals his hair was unsuccessfully modelled on the poet Matthew Arnold. Sugar responds to his embarrassment, adding that she finds his work over-rated. William is astounded by Sugar’s literary knowledge, especially as he shares this opinion.
Sugar continues to surprise with a critique on the work of John Ruskin. As a barmaid pours more drinks, she looks to Sugar; a congratulatory smile on seducing her new client.

First episode of the 4 part mini series is on BBC 2, Wednesday 6th April at 9:00.
More details here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0107ry0

mike65 · 07-04-2011 10:25pm

Taped this last night, will check it out in the next day or three.

Richard Dower · 08-04-2011 1:00am

^ i spotted this last night, gonna watch it later...it seems pretty decent!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 08-04-2011 1:48am

I absolutely love Romola Garai, have done since I saw her in Daniel Deronda years ago. So naturally I was excited to read about this adaption last year and watched it last night.

I have to say I was very confused by it all. I haven't read the book so I have no idea where things are going but I dislike almost everybody in it. The only one i liked was William's mental wife and I kind of had a begrudging respect for Sugar.

I thought Chris O'Dowd was a strange choice for a serious role but I was willing to give him a chance but I wasn't really sure what to make of him. Are we supposed to like Rackham? At the end of the first episode when his wife saw Sugar I found myself hoping they team up and destroy Rackham, take all the family money and run off together.

Also, I know it's a story about a prostitute but I was not prepared for all that sex!! Or ladies pissing in pots.

Richard Dower · 09-04-2011 3:02am

Woah!....dark, brooding, almost gothic horror quality!, i wanna discuss the techincal aspects first, the music is awesome....check out the opening musical piece!, reminds me of Goldfrapp for some reason.

The music is great, but it's the sound design and sound effects that truely stand out!, this is a UK/Canada production. I know nothing about the book it's based on but this is really rather good from the BBC.

Acting is pretty decent all round, a London prostitute gives a UK gentleman/industrialist/writer some direction....she's his muse etc., it's not all about sex moreso she very VERY good at her job.

She taps into men, there weaknesses, uses them, this particular jon needs to be talked up, he's a loser....she tells him what he wants and needs to hear to make some wonga to get her out of the whore house....basically.

But it's all very dark, exploring the seedy underworld of Victorian London, London's finest and there double lives and vices. Sugar is a femme fatale, a woman who harbours murderous thoughts, a great actress who can fake an orgasm but her face tells a different story.

You get the sense she'd slit your throat at anytime. The sets and production design are pretty great, it was all well made and engaging. Definately recomend this.

For the BBC it's got some pretty graphic scenes, Though not quite Spartacus or cable levels. Definately goona see this one through....and always a good sign, i'm upgrading this one to HD viewing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8432885/The-Crimson-Petal-and-the-White-a-Victorian-horror-story-too-big-for-the-small-screen-review.html

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1358302

http://www.cultbox.co.uk/reviews/episodes/872-the-crimson-petal-and-the-white-episode-2-review

mike65 · 09-04-2011 9:58am

I saw it last night (along with Rubicon, so it was an evening of slow moving, quiet low key drama!) I liked it once I'd got my head around Chris O'Dowd in a non-amusing role (which he has done before I know), plenty of filth, intrigue and atmosphere. I agree about the music - it even reminded me of Blade Runner at times with the use of short echo/long decay percussion sounds.

yimrsg · 09-04-2011 3:14pm

Yeah I thought the first piece was Fever Ray she has that low mournful ebb in some of her songs, something very evocative about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBAzlNJonO8

First episode was very good, but it might be a bit difficult to follow if you haven't read the book. There is (obviously) more character development which helps you into the world.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Also, I know it's a story about a prostitute but I was not prepared for all that sex!! Or ladies pissing in pots.

That was Sugar cleaning herself after Mr Rackham had his fill. I can't remember what particular recipe she used from the book but it's some ghastly sounding concoction which burns her insides clean.

Chris O'Dowd has surprised me, playing a soppy little man boy still under a domineering father's thumb to a driven man at the encouragement of Sugar. He shown himself to be more than Roy from the I.T. Crowd.

I liked the angel reference by Mrs Rackham describing her dream & Sugar's winged dress. Very promising so far.

mike65 · 09-04-2011 3:22pm

The pissing in the pot was very early when we see inside the house of ill-repute for the first time just before

Sugar sees her friend die

.

yimrsg · 10-04-2011 12:23am

Ah right missed that first time round. Completely the wrong thing I was on about then.

Richard Dower · 14-04-2011 8:07am

Ep. 2 was also excellent!....but, armpit hair!, well done makers....realistic there. I doubt Sugar had freshly shaved pits in those days, good attention to detail. The actress who played Agnes is superb!, a stellar performance.

Based on that ep. i think both William and Sugar have real feelings for each other, he moved her into her own pad. Clearly she wants all the trappings of his lifestyle, but will it turn murderous for Sugar?

She wants that society life bad!....how far will she go?

mike65 · 14-04-2011 10:15am

I suspect Sugar will end up a victim of William, Still thats speculation and I don't like speculation! Really great atmosphere of "otherness" the whole thing feels like a slightly bad dream.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 14-04-2011 3:14pm

I can't decide if Sugar is starting to like William or is it all part of a plan to ruin him. Even with the wife, does she genuinely care about her or is it another way to mess with Rackham?

To me he comes across as very unlikable so I find myself hoping she's up to no good.

Greyjoy · 14-04-2011 4:15pm

I've enjoyed the first two episodes. My only real complaint is a small niggle that Gatiss and O'Dowd look & sound absolutely nothing like each other to have actually been brothers.

William himself is a flawed character,a bit too self-centred and self-pitying at times but not without admirable qualities. I feel he truly cares for his wife (witness how distressed he was at her breakdowns). I was unsure about his character until he took out the 'exclusive' contract with Sugar - by insisting that it was to be Sugar's choice rather than the brothel madam's he was displaying genuine affection (and a small bit of respect perhaps) to Sugar.

Richard Dower · 21-04-2011 8:46pm

Brilliant and deeply disturbing episode 3!....:eek:
Such a quality show on many levels, the acting is top notch, the story is addictive, poor Agnes!

My god, all the men in her life treat her like crap!. Her own doctor raping her, i think as well her husband did the same....he certainly raped her in this ep. - under heavy sedation, very disturbing scenes.

I saw a role reversal in this ep., in ep. 1 it was Agnes waving out the window at Sugar, now....the roles are reversed. Sugar has planted herself into Willian's life fully, even educating his daughter and she's basically taken over.

Next week looks like an absoulte cracker!!!....is Sugar being poisoned???

Quality show!!!!!!, finale next week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ojKQaFDOs

Richard Dower · 28-04-2011 4:09am

While a solid finale i don't think it was as good as the first three eps. - Sugar went full circle, from porositute to a kept woman to an employee to back to square one had Rackham had his way. Sugars plans went kaput!...she got preggo, lost the baby rather gruesomly, Rackham rejected her and tossed her on her ass!

Ay least at the end she saved little Sophie from that life and will be the mum that child always wanted.

mike65 · 28-04-2011 9:54am

Yep the ending lacked a little zinger, which lets face it we are conditioned to expect, but a very good series and at least young Sophie has a chance.

Richard Dower · 28-04-2011 6:19pm

I think that was the issue, we've been conditioned to expect big twists, see plotpoints that don't come to pass....in the opening two eps. i speculated Sugar would off Agnes, plant herself in Rackham's life etc.

Now while she did that, it played out differently....she didn't murder Agnes but in fact was trying to help her and get her away from the abuse. You'd think Sugar was rather heartless and had murder and revenge on her mind....but in fact she was in the end rather good, she wanted Sophie and Agnes to have a better life, get away from these abuseful men etc.

She wanted a family, a home, a husband who loved her despite her past etc., she was complex, you questioned her motivation, things and scenes were rather subtle. That's what was good about the show....you didn't know quite what Sugars intentions were.

It was very well acted, productions values excellent....it looked great, it gave you a glimpse into Victorian life for the women, the abuse they suffered, the terrible lack of biological knowledge, the men who ignore and see them as accessories, how dismissive men are etc.

An eye opener, a recomended show for sure!

Ruths41 · 04-05-2011 12:42am

I really had a different take altogether. I thought Sugar was a very dark character (her writings were sharp and pointed). I think she quite knowingly dispatched Agnes to her doom, and was taking Sophie with het on her own suicide journey. She was pictured in the same station, at the same spot where we last saw Agnes alive ... she was embarking on the same journey as Alice.

In Victorian England, she would have had no chance on her own. And with Sophie ...

Richard Dower · 04-05-2011 12:53am

^ she was heading to America with Sophie for a new life, she had alot of money saved up that she got from her time with Rackham.

Crimson Petal and the White *Spoilers* BBC 2

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Crimson Petal and the White Spoilers BBC 2