Article: HSE asks boy (5) to prove he 'hasn't grown a leg'

Seth Brundle · 05-03-2008 10:09am #1

By Anne-Marie Walsh
Wednesday March 05 2008

A mother has told how she must constantly "prove" to the HSE that her five-year-old son "hasn't grown a leg", so she can claim medical support.
Sonia Breen said it is "ridiculous" that her son Kieran, who has a prosthetic leg, has to undergo check-ups every 18 months in order to get an essential allowance.
She said there is also endless redtape before she can replace his false limbs, which need to be changed at least twice a year.
Kieran, from Roscrea in Tipperary, has a life-long congenital disability known as Hetrotaxy limb defect.
In addition to four holes in his heart, he had to have 60pc of his windpipe removed and also suffers from sleep apnoea and asthma.
His irate mother said she is obliged to notify the HSE regularly that her son is disabled.
She said he has to endure numerous check-ups because the health service refuses to accept her son's disability.
"There never seems to be money in the kitty for the parents of children with disabilities," she said.
"I had to wait weeks before I could get him a prosthetic limb on the medical card last year. I made him a promise that he could go to school and no one would laugh at him.
"I wanted the funding by 5pm that day but time passed by and it took three weeks.
"For the Domiciliary (Care Allowance), I have to take Kieran, every 18 months, to the health board doctor to prove that he actually hasn't grown a leg," she said.
"It's a joke. I have to prove that his circumstances haven't changed.
"For the medical card, I have to go up to the GP every year and get him to fill out the form basically saying that the circumstances have not changed and that he still needs a prosthetic leg.
Waste
"The GP knows it's ridiculous. It is a waste of his time and my time".
Ms Breen contacted the Brenda Power show on Newstalk yesterday, along with other parents who complained about HSE bureaucracy.
Another woman claimed she had to prove on a yearly basis that her son still had cerebral palsy.
The Domiciliary Care Allowance is a monthly means tested payment made to the carer of a child with a severe disability who lives at home.
In order to qualify, the child must have a severe disability that is likely to last for at least one year, be under 16, and live at home.
They must also show that they need substantially more constant care and attention than a child of the same age who does not have a disability.
Eligibility for the allowance is determined primarily by the degree of additional care and attention needed by the child, rather than the type of disability involved.
Medical assessment is carried out by a Senior Area Medical Officer in the HSE.
Since January 1 this year, the Domiciliary Care Allowance rate was €299.60 per month.
A HSE spokesperson said that the medical review was necessary.
"It's considered appropriate that an individual is examined periodically to ensure the allowance meets their needs," the spokeswoman added.
- Anne-Marie Walsh

feckin eejits! :rolleyes:

gucci · 05-03-2008 10:29am

Im not sure which is more depressing, reading about children who have the most harsh diseases and conditions I have ever heard of, struggling and fighting for life every day, or reading about how continously they are let down and messed around by our state.

weeder · 05-03-2008 12:57pm

hse: So how ca you prove he has no leg?
mother: well hes sitting right infront of you!

Cuddlesworth · 05-03-2008 1:15pm

Thats a very biased article, I would have assumed that the checks were to do with catching the people who try to abuse the system. Yes it annoys the more unfortunate, but so do most things of that nature. I would put money that if they were not there you would have a great article about how people could abuse the HSE and how they need more stringent checks.

robinph · 05-03-2008 1:19pm

HSE wrote:

A HSE spokesperson said that the medical review was necessary.
"It's considered appropriate that an individual is examined periodically to ensure the allowance meets their needs," the spokeswoman added.

Don't see the problem myself.

spiritcrusher · 05-03-2008 1:22pm

gucci wrote: »

Im not sure which is more depressing, reading about children who have the most harsh diseases and conditions I have ever heard of, struggling and fighting for life every day, or reading about how continously they are let down and messed around by our state.

True enough, but is there really a way of having a perfect healthcare system that can deal with EVERY single case in an ideal way? Hardly.
People are right to complain and demand better services, the HSE needs constant pressure, but lets not blow this out of all proportion. There will always be mistakes.

aidan_walsh · 05-03-2008 1:26pm

robinph wrote: »

Don't see the problem myself.

For the most part I would agree, but surely there would be exceptional circumstances in a case like this. Its not like there is a long history of people spontaneously growing limbs.

AngryBadger · 05-03-2008 1:33pm

Surely whatever checks and systems are in place within the HSE with regard to disability allowanaces and the like are there to ensure people aren't scamming the system? how is an accountant going voer the HSE books supposed to know that someone is in fact disabled if he doesn't have some kind of record of regular checks with results reflecting that situation?

I'll grant you it could be argued that in this case the leg is not going to grow back, but no system can be designed to take account of every single individual case, we'd get nothing done under those circumstances. It's unfortunate that the lad is subjected to the inconvenience of having to get these regular check-ups, and red tape with his GP to get his allowance, but in the same breath the check-up is once every 18 months, and to get the medical card forms have to be filled out once a year, I mean you're talking 3 days out of the whole year, I personally don't think that's asking a lot.

With regard to delays in getting new prosthetics, well on the surface I'd have to say I'm very dissappointed to hear that, especially with a little fella at such a vulnerable age.

Fratton Fred · 05-03-2008 1:33pm

Don't blame the HSE, blame the dossers and scroungers that means the HSE have to carry out these tests.

Sure his case is bonafide, but there wil be hundreds that aren't.

The Hill Billy · 05-03-2008 1:44pm

Poor kid. Reassessing his medical & welfare requirements on a regular basis is good, but to have to jump through bureaucratic hoops to prove he hasn't recovered from Hetrotaxy limb defect is an unnecessary burden on him & his mother.

The irony is that in this instance it is the HSE that doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Ste.phen · 05-03-2008 2:27pm

Is she actually complaining that they make her bring him for a checkup every 1.5 years in order to continue receiving benefits? Sounds like he has enough medical issues to warrant far more frequent visits!

I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting he 'grew another leg', this was probably in a trashy tabloid, trying to make a fuss over nothing to sell rags!

The Hill Billy · 05-03-2008 2:53pm

Igy wrote: »

this was probably in a trashy tabloid, trying to make a fuss over nothing to sell rags!

Spot on. It is in the Indo.

Mr. Incognito · 05-03-2008 2:56pm

Sure his case is bonafide, but there wil be hundreds that aren't.

This sort of paranoia keeps those pencil pushers in jobs doing nothing. The only way to fix the HSE is fire half the staff who haven't done a day's wok in 20 years.

colly10 · 05-03-2008 3:06pm

AngryBadger wrote: »

but no system can be designed to take account of every single individual case

You only have 2 cases really, one which the condition could potentially change and another where it can't. If its the latter, test once and leave it at that

AngryBadger · 05-03-2008 3:27pm

colly10 wrote: »

You only have 2 cases really, one which the condition could potentially change and another where it can't. If its the latter, test once and leave it at that

That's assuming he's only being checked to determine whether his leg has spontaneously re-generated or not, however the article notes that,

"In addition to four holes in his heart, he had to have 60pc of his windpipe removed and also suffers from sleep apnoea and asthma."

So they may also be checking these conditions/problems out, we don't actually know based on the article quoted above.

In addition to which it's a massive over-simplification to say there are only 2 conditions, many conditions can lead to numerous complications requiring frequent regular check-ups. It's not always going to be the case that someone is either sick or not sick, erego the system needs to be developed to catch everybody. Seems reasonable to me that a check-up is required every 18 months, and it doesn't sound like that much of an inconvenience. I mean 1 day every 18 months she has to take her son in for a checkup. I feel for the lad i relly do, but whining about 1 day out of 18 months is BS. Same goes for applying for a medical card once a year.

In short, it's a pity for the little lad, but you can't have a system designed to address every single case as a unique case. It's unfortunate but there it is.

ScumLord · 05-03-2008 3:31pm

I bet all this second guessing and red tape is costing a pretty penny. :rolleyes:

The_Minister · 05-03-2008 3:41pm

Most.
Misleading.
Thread-title.
ever!

That is her quote, and the check-ups are to catch scammers/ keep them up t date on the illness.

lostexpectation · 05-03-2008 7:56pm

the hse treats everyone like a fraudster, everyone!

constitutionus · 05-03-2008 8:08pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I bet all this second guessing and red tape is costing a pretty penny. :rolleyes:

oh yeah man, dont you know you need 7 yres of med school and a honors degree in computer science to tell a kid wont grow his leg back. but better drag him back every odd dozen of months to make sure.

randylonghorn · 05-03-2008 10:02pm

aidan_walsh wrote: »

For the most part I would agree, but surely there would be exceptional circumstances in a case like this. Its not like there is a long history of people spontaneously growing limbs.

Exactly. Sure, in most cases there are good reasons for monitoring to ensure people aren't cheating the system, but in cases like this surely a "tick box" on the system under "permanent disability" should filter the person through to a category without such constant red tape.

Remember it's our taxes which are being used to pay the person who has to take the time to solemnly verify that this poor lad has not spontaneously grown a limb!

stepbar · 05-03-2008 10:12pm

There's bureaucracy and then there's damm stupidity. This is damm stupidity. It frustrates the fcuk out of me to see stuff like this going on. And it’s not only the HSE where it goes on. It's endemic in a lot of places. I work for a bank and I see stuff being done that's absolutely stupid, every bleeden day. All for the benefit of accountants and damm auditors. Don't even get me started on auditors because they're next to car sales men in my book.

TPD · 05-03-2008 11:49pm

Hill Billy wrote: »

The irony is that in this instance it is the HSE that doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Heh

MarkR · 06-03-2008 10:48am

The ladies constantly assume I have a third leg. I'm like a tripod me. :rolleyes:

stevenmu · 06-03-2008 11:39am

It seems reasonable to me to have him be re-evaluated every 18 months. They have to check that he is still alive and living under his mother's care, and that he is dependant on her in such a way that entitles her to an allowance. There may come a time when he is no longer any more dependant on his mother than a normal child would be at which point they would cease being eligible for the allowance.

nesf · 06-03-2008 11:55am

stevenmu wrote: »

It seems reasonable to me to have him be re-evaluated every 18 months. They have to check that he is still alive and living under his mother's care, and that he is dependant on her in such a way that entitles her to an allowance. There may come a time when he is no longer any more dependant on his mother than a normal child would be at which point they would cease being eligible for the allowance.

+1

It's got **** all to do with this kid and everything to do with all the people willing to scam the system.

constitutionus · 06-03-2008 1:02pm

oh bollocks, stop trying to justify what is patent waste. as someone already mentioned he's being assessed to see if his permanent disability goes away. it could very easily be sorted out by having one catagory for permanent disabilties and one for temorary ones but that'd make common sense. something the public sector doesnt engage in.

if the kid died there'd be a death cert, who the fcuk do you think would have to sign that? yes a doctor. if he kicked the bucket he'd be treated the same way as a pensioner who dies on a medical card. i.e you'd fill in a form and send it back. no wasting of a doctors time for petty bureacratic nonsense and demanding you see the corpse before you cut off the grant .and as for ensuring he's still living with the mother, where the fcuk else is a disabled CHILD going to go? they have records for a reason so sorting out the age shouldnt be a problem

jesus my brother suffered a permanent disability and all he had to do was fill in a form once and got the pension from then on. they just check up on him every now and again to see if he's died but like i said its a form, not a doctors appointment to see if his eye has spontaneously regrown in the meantime

this is about giving some cnut that shouldve been fired for being irrelevant a job to do. something half the feckers in there cant even define as they dont know what theyre there for.

stevenmu · 06-03-2008 1:37pm

Yes if he died a doctor would have to sign a cert, but is it his responsibility to send it to all and sundry?

And if you read the article it clearly states that the boys mother is entitled to the allowance because his condition (which includes other thigns beyond missing a leg) requires an unusual degree of support and care. Not simply because he is missing a leg. Sure his leg isn't going to grow back, but that does not mean that he could not get to a point where he is fully able to live a normal life without the constant care and attention of his mother (which is what entitles her to the payment).

lostexpectation · 06-03-2008 4:28pm

the kids 5

Article: HSE asks boy (5) to prove he 'hasn't grown a leg'

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