WTF Sort of sentence is this?

Huggles · 03-03-2008 3:26pm #1

Jesus christ this country is ****ed...

Link

A Kildare man who raped his infant daughter has been given a 15-year prison sentence at the Central Criminal Court.

The 30-year-old, who can't be named for legal reasons, pleaded guilty to two charges of rape on dates in 2005.

Mr Justice White said there was nothing more appalling than the oral rape of a three-year-old child, the gravity of which is increased when it is your own child.

He said he had considered imposing a life sentence for the offences, which took place on dates in 2005.

The offences came to light during a conversation between the child and her mother while she was washing her teeth.

Judge White directed that the man's name be entered on the register of sex offenders.

He also suspended the final three years of the sentence as well as imposing five years post-release supervision.

Collie D · 03-03-2008 3:28pm

Don't know about you but I wouldn't find twelve years in prison a walk in the park. No injustice here but I can sense the "lock them up and throw away the key" brigade about to roll in

Huggles · 03-03-2008 3:29pm

Do you really think the punishment equals the crime here?

He will be out in less than 15 years. :mad:

Dinter · 03-03-2008 3:29pm

Rabble rabble rabble

leninbenjamin · 03-03-2008 3:29pm

life sentence in this country is roughly 8 to 12 years anyway so it wouldn't make much difference to be honest...

Lawless_Samurai · 03-03-2008 3:30pm

Collie D wrote: »

"lock them up and throw away the key" brigade about to roll in

Nah wouldn't bother with that just chop off his jibbly bits

Gummy Panda · 03-03-2008 3:31pm

15 years seems like a decent sentence compared to previous sex offenders sentences like 5 years with 2 suspended or something.

Collie D · 03-03-2008 3:34pm

Gummy Panda wrote: »

15 years seems like a decent sentence compared to previous sex offenders sentences like 5 years with 2 suspended or something.

Exactly. Surprised he got that long tbh compared to others you hear of. I can't imagine that a man who raped his own child would get an easy time behind bars so it's not as if he's getting off lightly.

Besides, the judge had suspended the final three years because of recent appeals to sentences he had already passed down.

Twelve years is a stiff sentence. A lot of users here seem to be of the opinion that prison is a holiday camp. Don't think I'd fancy doing a twelve stretch.

orestes · 03-03-2008 3:34pm

The amount of times he will probably be on the receiving end of a vicious buggering in prison should make things a little bit more even

Rb · 03-03-2008 3:35pm

Wow that's absolutely sick.

Yeah, the sentence is better than what some have received, but it's still a joke. The guy stuck his penis in his three year old daughters mouth ffs, he deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison, fck 12 years.

slipss · 03-03-2008 3:37pm

On the subject of ridiculas sentences.

"Anne Lawlor said that she stabbed her former fiance twice in the back as he slept because he had a "controlling" personality.

"Obviously not controlling enough," a colleague observed wryly last week when the waitress appeared in the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to face charges of assault. His understandable cynicism about the whole affair was not exactly tempered when Ms Lawlor walked away at the end of the hearing with a two-year suspended sentence.

Anne Lawlor's stated reasons for stabbing her ex-fiance were that he was "messing with my head" and had been "slagging off" her dead father -- neither of which seems a particularly compelling answer to the question: Why did you do it?"

Does anybody think for even a second that the same sentence would have been handed down if this story read "Dutch man stabs his ex girlfriend in the back as she slept", good old double standards are alive and well in the Irish justice system.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/punishment-is-now-a-dirty-word-1303590.html

Collie D · 03-03-2008 3:39pm

slipss wrote: »

On the subject of ridiculas sentences.

"Anne Lawlor said that she stabbed her former fiance twice in the back as he slept because he had a "controlling" personality.

"Obviously not controlling enough," a colleague observed wryly last week when the waitress appeared in the Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to face charges of assault. His understandable cynicism about the whole affair was not exactly tempered when Ms Lawlor walked away at the end of the hearing with a two-year suspended sentence.

Anne Lawlor's stated reasons for stabbing her ex-fiance were that he was "messing with my head" and had been "slagging off" her dead father -- neither of which seems a particularly compelling answer to the question: Why did you do it?"

Does anybody think for even a second that the same sentence would have been handed down if this story read "Dutch man stabs his ex girlfriend in the back as she slept", good old double standards are alive and well in the Irish justice system.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/punishment-is-now-a-dirty-word-1303590.html

I read about that last week and was amazed. Suspended sentence for stabbing somebody in their sleep. That's one cold, calculating bitch who should have been up on attempted murder charges.

Dinter · 03-03-2008 3:41pm

Provocation should never, ever, ever, be accepted as mitigating for such acts.

It would be easier to walk away than try and kill someone.

Slow Motion · 03-03-2008 3:46pm

Please feel free to correct me, but don't most sentences carry a 25% automatic reduction for good behaviour? So it won't even be 12 years!

Collie D · 03-03-2008 3:50pm

Slow Motion wrote: »

Please feel free to correct me, but don't most sentences carry a 25% automatic reduction for good behaviour? So it won't even be 12 years!

Yes but not sure if that's the case if he's already had 20 per cent suspended, although I am open to correction too.

gucci · 03-03-2008 5:01pm

that has to be one of the most sickening cases iv ever heard off.....dear god i feel sick

aidan_dunne · 03-03-2008 5:37pm

Collie D wrote: »

........ I can sense the "lock them up and throw away the key" brigade about to roll in

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

That's the problem these days, we're way too f**king soft on the likes of these sickos! Bleeding heart PC liberal lefties all too quick to march in to defend the "human rights" of the criminal. How can you even begin to talk about this guy's "human rights"? He isn't human, he's a sick animal that deserves to be put down. I'm sure he wasn't too concerned about that poor child's "human rights" when he was doing what he did. :mad:

Collie D · 03-03-2008 5:40pm

aidan_dunne wrote: »

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

That's the problem these days, we're way too f**king soft on the likes of these sickos! Bleeding heart PC liberal lefties all too quick to march in to defend the "human rights" of the criminal. How can you even begin to talk about this guy's "human rights"? He isn't human, he's a sick animal that deserves to be put down. I'm sure he wasn't too concerned about that poor child's "human rights" when he was doing what he did. :mad:

Who are you calling a liberal PC leftie? You do twelve years surrounded by criminals and tell me it's easy. I just said it wasn't a soft sentence but I suppose your reaction is to be expected.

aidan_dunne · 03-03-2008 5:44pm

Collie D wrote: »

Who are you calling a liberal PC leftie?

Not directed personally at you, Collie. Apologies if you thought it was. Just saying that, in general, there seems to be a lot of people out there these days who are too quick to jump to the defense of the criminals and are more concerned about the rights of the criminal than the rights of the victim and this just seems completely wrong, in my opinion.

Jigsaw · 03-03-2008 5:55pm

aidan_dunne wrote: »

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

That's the problem these days, we're way too f**king soft on the likes of these sickos! Bleeding heart PC liberal lefties all too quick to march in to defend the "human rights" of the criminal. How can you even begin to talk about this guy's "human rights"? He isn't human, he's a sick animal that deserves to be put down. I'm sure he wasn't too concerned about that poor child's "human rights" when he was doing what he did. :mad:

So refreshing to see sentencing policy in Ireland being discussed using such reasoned and cogent legal argument.

Seriously like, what the man did was utterly deplorable but sentences have to be proportionate. You feel he should be executed for what he did? What would you suggest if he had had penetrative sex with the child? Would you advocate that he is executed, brought back to life and then re-executed?

I stress that I am certainly no apologist for this man or anyone like him and child abuse is one of the most abhorrent crimes out there, but due to the emotive nature of the issues involved, it always generates irrational expressions by people of what a country's justice sentencing policy ought to be.

LaVidaLoca · 03-03-2008 6:00pm

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

That's the problem these days, we're way too f**king soft on the likes of these sickos! Bleeding heart PC liberal lefties all too quick to march in to defend the "human rights" of the criminal. How can you even begin to talk about this guy's "human rights"? He isn't human, he's a sick animal that deserves to be put down. I'm sure he wasn't too concerned about that poor child's "human rights" when he was doing what he did

Yeah Im sure if the punishment was 30 years, he would have thought twice about doing it.

You fool. Criminals do the stuff they do, precisely because they think they're gonna get away with it.

beautiation · 03-03-2008 6:05pm

The sentence is a bit too light, I agree. Something 20+ would sound about right to me. But people whose cheerful reaction to this is "ah sure he'll be raped every day in there anyway" do you really think it's a good thing to have that kind of culture in prisons? Not only are you condoning the removal of human rights, but you're also trusting the hardened criminals at the top of prison hierarchies to be given some kind of mandate to complete the justice of a sentence, as if justice is what's on their minds. I really don't know how much raping, beatings etc. really do go on in prison, but if it's anything like enough to justify the confidence some people have that this guy will live out 12 years of torture it's an absolute disgrace, and definitely something that we shouldn't turn a blind eye to.

aidan_dunne · 03-03-2008 6:07pm

Well, I just think sick f**kers like that shouldn't be let live. That's just my opinion and you're fully entitled to your own. If someone ever did anything like that to a child of mine, though, I wouldn't hesitate to take the law into my own hands and dish out the punishment I saw fit, and to hell with the consequences.

Collie D · 03-03-2008 6:11pm

There are very few prisoners in Ireland who have served more than twenty years. You could probably count them on your fingers tbh. 12 years is a stiff sentence in this country and probably wouldn't be far off a life sentence.

The judge has said that his hands were somewhat tied in his sentencing. Twelve years is a tough, long sentence and he will not just walk through it. Remember what you were doing twelve years ago and it might give you some insight into how long a time that is. Then imagine that time spent in a small room for 20+ hours a day with only other criminals to keep you company. This man is being punished for his crimes and rightly so

PS I knew as soon as I heard this story on Newstalk this afternoon that it would end up on Boards

beautiation · 03-03-2008 6:14pm

aidan_dunne wrote: »

Not directed personally at you, Collie. Apologies if you thought it was. Just saying that, in general, there seems to be a lot of people out there these days who are too quick to jump to the defense of the criminals and are more concerned about the rights of the criminal than the rights of the victim and this just seems completely wrong, in my opinion.

aidan_dunne wrote: »

Well, I just think sick f**kers like that shouldn't be let live. That's just my opinion and you're fully entitled to your own. If someone ever did anything like that to a child of mine, though, I wouldn't hesitate to take the law into my own hands and dish out the punishment I saw fit, and to hell with the consequences.

But why exactly? I'd be furious too, but how does extreme punishment help the child anymore than a suitable jail sentence would? And you'd proabably end up in jail leaving your child without a parent, or possibly killed if the attack failed, or what if you maiming the paedophile ended up getting him more sympathy off the judge and a lighter jail sentence? I can understand the temptation to indulge your anger would be very strong, but what good can it do? Is it not just selfish at the end of the day really?

aidan_dunne · 03-03-2008 6:16pm

I'd like to to know what people's opinion on the "life sentence" should be, actually? Do you believe life should mean life, i.e. that you're never let out ever again and you die in prison as opposed to the current definition of "life"?

Steak · 03-03-2008 6:23pm

haha. I was scanning the paragraph for grammar mistakes.

Collie D · 03-03-2008 6:26pm

Steak wrote: »

haha. I was scanning the paragraph for grammar mistakes.

Dashticle · 03-03-2008 7:09pm

Well yes, his life is effectively over. He gets out over a decade later, is 42 with no friends. If he gets caught doing anything, even being drunk in the street, it's back in for another two years at least, he'll be 50 before they stop monitoring him closely. Plus he gets on the sex offenders register for life.

Off topic, I understand that rape is not that common in the Irish prison system. Beating the **** out of child molestors is pretty common though.

gurramok · 03-03-2008 7:15pm

How about this for a sentence http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojkfojmhey/rss2/

Gets 20 yrs with 12yrs suspended, wtf?

'Judge Martin Nolan suspended the final 12 years of the prison terms to take into account that Smith had pleaded guilty to all the charges before the court, co-operated with the gardaí in all cases bar one and apologised during interview to his victims.'

Err, judge Nolan, so feckin what?

Plead guilty because you were caught red handed, co-operated with gardai because you were caught after the fact and apologised after the fact so you gain 12 yrs back from the sentence on basic stuff! :mad:

Is there some sort of performance review for judges?

Who can fire them if they don't do their job properly?

Collie D · 03-03-2008 7:17pm

gurramok wrote: »

Is there some sort of performance review for judges?

Who can fire them if they don't do their job properly?

The Minister for Justice as far as I know. And he's a spineless c*nt like all other FFers. I know McDowell was a complete and utter fascist bastard but at least he wasn't afraid to slag off the judiciary every now and again

keen · 03-03-2008 7:18pm

Collie D wrote: »

Exactly. Surprised he got that long tbh compared to others you hear of. I can't imagine that a man who raped his own child would get an easy time behind bars so it's not as if he's getting off lightly.

He won't be in Mount Joy sharing a cell with a robber or a drug dealer, he will most likely be placed in a special wing with like minded scum.

Collie D · 03-03-2008 7:22pm

keen wrote: »

He won't be in Mount Joy sharing a cell with a robber or a drug dealer, he will most likely be placed in a special wing with like minded scum.

I am aware of how the Prison Service works. Even sex offenders have their own hierarchy, amazing as it sounds. Even if they aren't disgusted how would you like to be segregated with fellow sick bastards? Knowing that you are there because you area piece of ****.

keen · 03-03-2008 7:52pm

Collie D wrote: »

I am aware of how the Prison Service works. Even sex offenders have their own hierarchy, amazing as it sounds. Even if they aren't disgusted how would you like to be segregated with fellow sick bastards? Knowing that you are there because you area piece of ****.

I'd pay to be with "fellow sick bastards" then be put in Mount Joy.

Redpunto · 03-03-2008 9:06pm

The only punishment for people like that is castration. No i take that back, people like that do not deserve to live.

beautiation · 03-03-2008 9:15pm

Redpunto wrote: »

The only punishment for people like that is castration. No i take that back, people like that do not deserve to live.

No, never. Simply never. We are a society, not gods, and as such our only right is to remove people who offend our society from it. If there is a way to achieve this without death, like jail, then it must always be preferred.

misslt · 03-03-2008 10:02pm

Echoing whats been said before, sick bastards like that don't deserve to live.

A life sentence in this case should be minimum of 20 years - make sure his life is well and truly done.

At 42, he could change his identity and move somewhere else, start a new life. Whereas the child will be emotionally scarred and god knows how else ****ed up for the rest of her life. Coz you can bet he doesn't feel too guilty about it - else he wouldn't have done it.

Makes you sad for people, doesn't it?

Muff_Daddy · 03-03-2008 11:39pm

beautiation wrote: »

No, never. Simply never. We are a society, not gods, and as such our only right is to remove people who offend our society from it. If there is a way to achieve this without death, like jail, then it must always be preferred.

See, here is the thing......jail doesn't remove people who forfeit their rights from living in society. What about visitors who come to see them? Prison Guards? Doctors who have to treat them when they get ill? Parole Boards? Or run-of-the-mill non-violant criminals? What if they escape?

People are murdered in prisons all the time. The only way to remove the bottom or the barrel criminals, i.e. murderers, child rapists is to end them, as cold as it sounds. Irrational? I don't think so tbh.

Blisterman · 03-03-2008 11:54pm

TheGooner wrote: »

Jesus christ this country is ****ed...

Link

Poor at best.

"Christ" should have a capital C. There should be a comma before "this", and the extra full stops are unnecessary.

Kimbot · 04-03-2008 12:00am

Slow Motion wrote: »

Please feel free to correct me, but don't most sentences carry a 25% automatic reduction for good behaviour? So it won't even be 12 years!

Yup that is correct, they get 1/4 remission as soon as they land except lifers. If you act up you loose the remission depending on the severity on the crime, i.e. having a mobile phone.

There is a further remission for people that already have the 1/4 remission ased on good behaviour.

EamonnKeane · 04-03-2008 1:17am

aidan_dunne wrote: »

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

I don't think it's the crime or indeed the perpetrator that matters in the above "analysis"; it stems from a desire to hurt, to harm, to punish. But one is taught every day from infancy that harming people is wrong, so what does one do? Do so in the imagination, or shoot imaginary people in video games, or perhaps find someone who, in the eyes of society, cannot be hurt enough?

Chunky Monkey · 04-03-2008 1:23am

Two men who stabbed another man to death only got life (eight years) a couple of years ago. They stabbed him seventeen times. How an earth did the judge come to the conclusion that eight years was enough. Even though they were caught pretty soon after it happened, it took three years to prosecute.

Collie D · 04-03-2008 10:39am

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Two men who stabbed another man to death only got life

danniemcq · 04-03-2008 1:59pm

WTF Sort of sentence is this?

Shortened English with poor grammer?

What do I win?

Collie D · 04-03-2008 2:07pm

danniemcq wrote: »

Shortened English with poor grammer?

What do I win?

I always smile at the irony of people spelling grammar incorrectly

faceman · 04-03-2008 2:13pm

danniemcq wrote: »

Shortened English with poor grammer?

What do I win?

Beat me to it!

danniemcq · 04-03-2008 2:16pm

Collie D wrote: »

I always smile at the irony of people spelling grammar incorrectly

Glad I made you smile

Chunky Monkey · 05-03-2008 1:40am

Collie D wrote: »

Eight years.

Collie D · 05-03-2008 1:42am

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

Eight years.

I thought you wrote they only got life...typo?

Jay D · 05-03-2008 1:45am

aidan_dunne wrote: »

F**k that! Too easy on him. Slow, painful torture over the course of several days, ultimately culminating in the sick bastard being hung, drawn and quartered sounds much more appropriate to me.

That's the problem these days, we're way too f**king soft on the likes of these sickos! Bleeding heart PC liberal lefties all too quick to march in to defend the "human rights" of the criminal. How can you even begin to talk about this guy's "human rights"? He isn't human, he's a sick animal that deserves to be put down. I'm sure he wasn't too concerned about that poor child's "human rights" when he was doing what he did. :mad:

is it just me or does anyone else here agree with me that some people just like the sound of themselves and think they will be popular for expressing certain views?

What's it for murder?

Chunky Monkey · 05-03-2008 1:46am

No apparently their 'life' sentence is eight years. Only read just there that there's no mandatory life sentence here, it's at the discretion of the courts. I thought, when I typed that message, that life is always eight years.

Sorry

WTF Sort of sentence is this?

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