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What do you think of dogs being kept outside?

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124

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    #92
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Whether it is the norm or not does not make it responsible ownership.

    We live in a similar setting and our landlord's brother, when we were making sure the fence was secure spoke just like you are doing. And we rejected his 'advice' as we do yours.

    We would never let our dogs roam like that because we care about them and their safety. The world has changed in the last 30 years also.

    It is still illegal and still irresponsible and still bad "ownership".

    Which we see so much of in Ireland, sadly.

    We have in the past reported dogs who roam free like that and will do so again.

    "ownership"?
    I love my dogs and care for them, I wash them and walk them and make sure they are fed. There is nothing wrong with them, they don't hassle people or animals or anything else.

    Go ahead and report away, you may have taken people's beloved pets away from them, were the dogs malnourished?Diseased?
    I look after my dogs & I love them. I know it doesn't matter if it's the norm, but the fact of the matter is, my dogs do not harm anyone or any animal, they don't mess in other people's gardens, they are well fed, well looked after, have a roof over their head and are washed regularly.

    What don't you get? The dogs are fine, the people are fine, why shouldn't I just let them run around and have fun?


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    #93
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    storm2811 wrote: »
    including ours, and no one drives irresponsibly enough to hit a dog, plus our dogs have enough cop on to not run out in front of a car, they never stray towards the main road.
    You don't have to drive irresponsibly to hit a dog that suddenly darts into the road. You may say that your dogs would never run out into the road, but all that really means is that they haven't done it yet. Fingers frossed they never will, but I definitely wouldn't take that risk.


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    #94
    andrewire
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭andrewire


    It depends on the conditions you have your dog outside. What you described here sounds like a good, responsible way to keep a dog outside. I always leave my dogs inside since they hate the cold and I come home every few hours.


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    #95
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    storm2811 wrote: »
    "ownership"?
    I love my dogs and care for them, I wash them and walk them and make sure they are fed. There is nothing wrong with them, they don't hassle people or animals or anything else.

    Go ahead and report away, you may have taken people's beloved pets away from them, were the dogs malnourished?Diseased?
    I look after my dogs & I love them. I know it doesn't matter if it's the norm, but the fact of the matter is, my dogs do not harm anyone or any animal, they don't mess in other people's gardens, they are well fed, well looked after, have a roof over their head and are washed regularly.

    What don't you get? The dogs are fine, the people are fine, why shouldn't I just let them run around and have fun?


    I "get" it totally. So why if all you are doing is fine ( which it is not as it is breaking the very few dog laws Ireland has) does this irk you so much?

    What you are saying is that really you see little of the dogs as you have no idea where they are for a large portion of the time? "Beloved pets" do not roam the land unsupervised.

    This is 2010; times have changed since thirty years ago. Even in the Leitrim boonies.


    Read the threads re folk trying to get a rescue dog.


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    #96
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Whatever about a dog living outside under correct conditions - roaming dogs are a huge problem all over this country. They worry livestock, cause accidents, frighten people, go to the toilet in public places and obviously it's not cleaned up which is a health issue, only 2 weeks ago a friends father who is already pretty ill was attacked coming out of his own garden by a roaming dog. The family live a good mile down the road and like you have had roaming dogs for years. He needed stitches, but refuses to even tell the owner so as to not cause problems.

    Years ago, (I was 12) We had a dog who jumped a wall and got killed on the road. He had never even shown an interest in the wall, one day, whatever got into him he left my dads side, took a dash and lept the wall, straight under a lorry (lucky it was a lorry he was a big fella). We were devestated, I still get upset over it. The point I'm making is, he was - as far as we thought - sufficiently enclosed, he was out with 2 people and he still acted in a totally unexpected way and made us realise that the wall needed to be heightened.

    Anybody who allows their dog roam should really rethink whats best for their "beloved" pet. No matter what justification given there is never an excuse.


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    #97
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I "get" it totally. So why if all you are doing is fine ( which it is not as it is breaking the very few dog laws Ireland has) does this irk you so much?

    What you are saying is that really you see little of the dogs as you have no idea where they are for a large portion of the time? "Beloved pets" do not roam the land unsupervised.

    This is 2010; times have changed since thirty years ago. Even in the Leitrim boonies.


    Read the threads re folk trying to get a rescue dog.

    It's not as if they are gone the whole day, our eldest dog stays here for most of the day and they don't stray far, usually just up the road to my uncles house and sometimes through the fields, the point is that they are allowed to go wherever they want, even if they do not.

    It irks me so much because you are deeply critisizing the way I care for my pets, you make out and presume that I'm unfit to keep them, or maybe that I don't even deserve them, in fact, it upsets me.

    So what?Beloved pets should be tied to my side all day, sleep in my bed?

    Also, I can't find the threads you're talking about, what do you mean?


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    #98
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Another huge huge problem you might want to consider is the fact the dogs are stolen every day of the week. We wouldn't let our dog out of sight for a moment in case he was stolen. (and he's a mongrel, they go missing too, some breeds and x's are incredibly popular and it doesn't matter how far out you live).

    If someone hits your wandering dog you are liable for any damage that is done. You say only 4 cars pass a day - that is a potential 28 accidents a WEEK. Most dogs would not have to deal with that in a life time.

    Are they your fields the ones they are roaming through?

    While you may think it's ok what you are doing, the vast majority of people would think it is either showing a lack of care for the dogs or a lack of understanding of just how quickly things can go wrong.

    Nobody is trying to upset you, just asking that you take a look at the bigger picture.
    storm2811 wrote: »
    It's not as if they are gone the whole day, our eldest dog stays here for most of the day and they don't stray far, usually just up the road to my uncles house and sometimes through the fields, the point is that they are allowed to go wherever they want, even if they do not.

    It irks me so much because you are deeply critisizing the way I care for my pets, you make out and presume that I'm unfit to keep them, or maybe that I don't even deserve them, in fact, it upsets me.

    So what?Beloved pets should be tied to my side all day, sleep in my bed?

    Also, I can't find the threads you're talking about, what do you mean?


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    #99
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Whispered wrote: »
    Another huge huge problem you might want to consider is the fact the dogs are stolen every day of the week. We wouldn't let our dog out of sight for a moment in case he was stolen. (and he's a mongrel, they go missing too, some breeds and x's are incredibly popular and it doesn't matter how far out you live).

    If someone hits your wandering dog you are liable for any damage that is done. You say only 4 cars pass a day - that is a potential 28 accidents a WEEK. Most dogs would not have to deal with that in a life time.

    Are they your fields the ones they are roaming through?

    While you may think it's ok what you are doing, the vast majority of people would think it is either showing a lack of care for the dogs or a lack of understanding of just how quickly things can go wrong.

    Nobody is trying to upset you, just asking that you take a look at the bigger picture.

    I know dogs are often stolen, fortunately it's never happened to us.
    Yes but the cars drive quite slow as it's a very small country road, hopefully an accident will never happen but I'm aware that it's always possible.

    Yes they are our fields, four fields surround our house, all ours and as they're quite big I've never seem stray too far from them, apart from the ones at our uncles house, which he didn't mind them being in either.

    But how is it a lack of care if I obviously care for my dogs? Anyone could come down and look at them and see that clearly they are well looked after.


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    #100
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    storm2811 wrote: »
    But how is it a lack of care if I obviously care for my dogs?
    You probably do care for them, but if I happened to drive down your road and saw them wandering - I wouldn't be thinking that they might be cared for, to be honest I would think "what sort of owner allows their dog unrestricted access to a public road". You are putting their lives at risk every single day.

    You say they don't stray "too far" from your own fields. Recently here in kilcullen a farmer has taken a zero tolerance approach to dogs on his land, I've seen him walk his field borders and there have been reports of dogs being shot just inside a border.

    Same in meath, my friends dogs escaped from her garden, they were gone no longer than ten mins (she had let them out of the house). She was alerted to the being out by gunshots.

    So there is another reason to not let your well loved dogs wander. You just never know. And it's unfair on the dog.


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    #101
    Sigma Force
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Sigma Force


    Our lives revolve around our dogs because they are outside we make that extra effort to spend quality time with them, they probably get more one on one time than your average house dog.
    There's a few of us here and we have a routine going and basically look after them in shifts.
    All the dogs around us are outdoors and if any of them hear anyone coming eg postie or stranger walking or parking up they all start up from 10 houses away you can hear them and you can tell what bark means what. The only time mine bark is when someone comes or passes if I'm 5 minutes late with their breakfast they never bark out of boredom and none of our dogs or rellies dogs that visit want to be indoors our garden is a doggy wonderland and they love it, we're lucky to have different sections with diff. smells and things to do and agility set up etc.

    We spend a lot of time, and money on our dogs, no cheap bedding or food here. So anyone that dares say mine aren't looked after would need to take a good look at the poor feker down the road with 3 legs that is still allowed to roam around on a lethal road, or the other poor feker down the road limping badly lying on cold concrete day in and day out.


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    #102
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Whispered wrote: »
    You probably do care for them, but if I happened to drive down your road and saw them wandering - I wouldn't be thinking that they might be cared for, to be honest I would think "what sort of owner allows their dog unrestricted access to a public road". You are putting their lives at risk every single day.

    You say they don't stray "too far" from your own fields. Recently here in kilcullen a farmer has taken a zero tolerance approach to dogs on his land, I've seen him walk his field borders and there have been reports of dogs being shot just inside a border.

    Same in meath, my friends dogs escaped from her garden, they were gone no longer than ten mins (she had let them out of the house). She was alerted to the being out by gunshots.

    So there is another reason to not let your well loved dogs wander. You just never know. And it's unfair on the dog.

    There's only two people who own guns around here, one of them doesn't have any livestock or own a farm and he doesn't mind if the dogs go on his land, which they don't anyway as they're afraid of his dog!:pac:

    The other man is a hunter, and when we got our new dogs we asked him if he minded if the dogs were on his land, he said no but also that he'd escort them off if they went somewhere dangerous, as he often has mink traps set.
    The dogs do not go on his land either, well the man has never seen them there, nor have I.

    How is it unfair on the dog to let them wander?


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    #103
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Sigma Force wrote: »
    So anyone that dares say mine aren't looked after would need to take a good look at the poor feker down the road with 3 legs that is still allowed to roam around on a lethal road, or the other poor feker down the road limping badly lying on cold concrete day in and day out.
    100% agree - it's all down to ownership, my parents have a yard that sounds similar to yours, my little brat still sits at the door looking to be in :rolleyes:.
    storm2811 wrote: »
    How is it unfair on the dog to let them wander?
    Because it's dangerous - no matter how many excuses you come up with. It is dangerous. I'm not even going to continue on this with you because you are just not getting why people would be concerned. I honestly hope your dogs never cause a serious accident on the road on which you allow them wander and I hope they never go out one day and just not return. I wish you and your dogs all the best of luck.


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    #104
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Whispered wrote: »
    Because it's dangerous - no matter how many excuses you come up with. It is dangerous. I'm not even going to continue on this with you because you are just not getting why people would be concerned. I honestly hope your dogs never cause a serious accident on the road on which you allow them wander and I hope they never go out one day and just not return. I wish you and your dogs all the best of luck.

    There it is again, I'm aware of the danger, but it is VERY unlikely.
    Fine, maybe I should just lock them up all day, maybe I should give them away, maybe I should have never entered this thread at all.


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    #105
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,822 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    storm2811 wrote: »
    Our family has had dogs for the past 30 years, each one of them living outside(sleeping inside) but entirely free to roam.

    This sums up the problem that still pervades much of Ireland & thousands of dogs are ending up dead as a result. During that 30 years the attitude in other countries like the UK has changed. Their thinking has evolved to accept that there are responsibilities in owning a dog, some for the dog & others for the general population.

    storm2811 wrote: »
    There it is again, I'm aware of the danger, but it is VERY unlikely.
    Fine, maybe I should just lock them up all day, maybe I should give them away, maybe I should have never entered this thread at all.

    Talk to your Vet & they will tell you that VERY unlikely incidents happen every day. Talk to the Guards about VERY unlikely accidents. No one ever thinks that something will happen to them. Your dogs can't decide to stay safe - they rely on you.

    Maybe you could fence off an area for the dogs. If they get a couple of walks every day they do not need much space. You entered this thread to be part of a discussion. It appears that the majority here disagree with your opinion & that is the nature of discussion.


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    #106
    andreac
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭andreac


    lrushe wrote: »
    Have to say I'm a big smell freak, I would hate to think someone coming into my home could only smell dog so I invested in a steam cleaner. It's brill, I steam all my soft furnishings and dogs beds forthnightly and my floors daily, the steamer cleans, sterilises and de-odourises without any harsh chemicals, just water!
    Just in case there is any stubborn odour still floating around after that I always have a Yankee Candle burning, simple really if you're willing to put in the effort.

    Hey Irushe, do you mind me asking where you got this steam cleaner and how much it was?? Would love to get one for my house:)


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    #107
    TooManyDogs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭TooManyDogs


    andreac wrote: »
    Hey Irushe, do you mind me asking where you got this steam cleaner and how much it was?? Would love to get one for my house:)

    Was thinking the same myself. Does it do solid wood floors too? And slate tiles?


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    #108
    lrushe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭lrushe


    andreac wrote: »
    Hey Irushe, do you mind me asking where you got this steam cleaner and how much it was?? Would love to get one for my house:)

    It's called a H2O Mop® Ultra, I bought it online from www.thanedirect.ie, it cost €113.80 including shipping.
    TooManyDogs wrote: »
    Was thinking the same myself. Does it do solid wood floors too? And slate tiles?

    So long as the floors are sealed then yes it's fine, I have slate tiles in my kitchen and it works fine on those. If you are ever unsure just do a small area that is unseen.


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    #109
    Zapperzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Zapperzy


    I have been working in a vets now for 3 weeks, this week alone I have seen 4 dogs that have come in after being hit by a car, 1 was dead by the time it arrived (chest injuries), 1 was pts because the owner couldn't afford the surgery to fix it's broken leg, 1 was an elderly dog which had a broken leg (leg was put in a cast) and the other just had minor scratches and bruises. Other than the last dog all of these are from people who let their dogs roam, the last dog is a stray and so far the owner can't be found (so he was either a dog that was allowed roam and got lost or dumped). There's a first time for everything unfortunately. :(


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    #110
    Jinxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Jinxi


    Firstly there is a large difference between keeping your dog outside and roaming. There is an argument for the former but not the latter.

    Secondly,and I know I'm going to get slated for this, I think Zappery's point is a bit biased. If you work in a Vets(and I have) of course the majority of your clients are going to be severly injured, and I hardley think 3 weeks is enough time to tar all owners who have dogs outside as letting them roam. I would be more worried about a vet who puts a dog to sleep because his owner is having financial problems in paying the bill,

    I have a friens who came home to find their dog had strngled himself off the door handle, and I know someone who's dog broke their leg in the enclosed back garden(they don't know how). Accidents happpen inside and out


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    #111
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Jinxi wrote: »
    Secondly,and I know I'm going to get slated for this, I think Zappery's point is a bit biased. If you work in a Vets(and I have) of course the majority of your clients are going to be severly injured, and I hardley think 3 weeks is enough time to tar all owners who have dogs outside as letting them roam. I would be more worried about a vet who puts a dog to sleep because his owner is having financial problems in paying the bill

    What do you mean? The dogs were hit by a car because they were on a road. I don't understand what you mean by saying it's tarring all owners who have outdoor dogs as allowing them roam. They're two different things. (have I just gotten your post confused?)


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    #112
    Jinxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Jinxi


    I was trying to point out that the thread is not about roaming. Dogs who are kept outside and dogs who are left to raom are two different things.

    Obviously dogs who are allowed roam are going to have a much higher incidence of accident and injury. I dont know the particulars of the above dog. He could have very neglectful owners or just clumsy ones who let go of the leash or left a gate open or their kids left the gate open.

    Working in a vets exposes you to the horrors of accidents including animals. But, for every dog you see there there are hundreds who are well taken care of and supevised(and more that are not and just lucky). Its important not to make sweeping staements in an argument about owners who choose to keep dogs outside


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    #113
    Whispered
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Oh I know what you mean - but zapperzy was responding to a post about roaming dogs. Not about dogs who are just left outside. I see where the confusion is now!


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    #114
    Zapperzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭Zapperzy


    Jinxi wrote: »
    Firstly there is a large difference between keeping your dog outside and roaming. There is an argument for the former but not the latter.

    Secondly,and I know I'm going to get slated for this, I think Zappery's point is a bit biased. If you work in a Vets(and I have) of course the majority of your clients are going to be severly injured, and I hardley think 3 weeks is enough time to tar all owners who have dogs outside as letting them roam. I would be more worried about a vet who puts a dog to sleep because his owner is having financial problems in paying the bill,

    I have a friens who came home to find their dog had strngled himself off the door handle, and I know someone who's dog broke their leg in the enclosed back garden(they don't know how). Accidents happpen inside and out

    Sorry for the confusion, whispered is right my post was in response to earlier posters who said they allow their dogs to roam, I probably should have quoted them to avoid confusion.

    I actually said earlier on in the thread (1st or 2nd page I think) that I have no problem with people keeping dogs outside so long as they are not just thrown outside with minimal shelter, no attention and forgotten about. And of course accidents can happen inside the home, my cousin's dog was strangled on their fence as a result of being tied up outside, and this week I seen a dog with a broken leg after the kids caught it in a door. I was just stating the risks associated with the road when dogs have access to it.


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    #115
    Queen-Mise
    Registered Users Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭Queen-Mise


    I have a conundrum on this one. Although I think it is being sorted for me. Still not entirely comfortable with it though.

    We have two dogs: the first dog Sam is a Westie cross, and he is an outside dog. From when we got him as a pup, he was always outside with our old dog (who died). Sam is really uncomfortable in the house.

    And then we got a new pup, a miniature Jack Russell, Milly is just five months old. Milly was meant to be a house dog. I did have one concern on this, I didn't want one dog getting preferential treatment over another. Milly has now taken the choice out of our hands. She now goes outside at night time to sleep with Sam.

    So now I have an outside dog, and a pup who is half in and half out :eek::eek: I have no idea what to do with her. If we are at home then she comes in, if not then she is outside. About 10 or 11 at night she gets really agitated to go out to Sam.

    Is this ok for a pup to be outside at night. They do have a sheltered shed to sleep in.


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    #116
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,822 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    It was below freezing last night. There is absolutely no way that a pup should be outside even more so with a shorthair miniature.

    Your "outdoor" dog can easily be trained to be indoors. I have 3 rescues that were all kept outdoors. They spent last night warm & safe.


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    #117
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    Discodog wrote: »
    It was below freezing last night. There is absolutely no way that a pup should be outside even more so with a shorthair miniature.

    Your "outdoor" dog can easily be trained to be indoors. I have 3 rescues that were all kept outdoors. They spent last night warm & safe.

    There's no reason why "outside" need be a cold miserable draughty place.
    You'd swear it was the plains of Siberia...


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    #118
    jamesd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭jamesd


    Our Akita always sleeps outdoors expect 2 or 3 nights last year that were exceptionally cold - his wooden kennel is well insulated with a mat on the floor - last night he slept outside his kennel for a few hours even though it was freezing and only went into the kennel in the middle of the night.
    Some dogs prefer to be outdoors.


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    #119
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,822 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    enda1 wrote: »
    There's no reason why "outside" need be a cold miserable draughty place.
    You'd swear it was the plains of Siberia...

    Last Winter I tested a neighbours kennel complete with dog just as an experiment. Outdoors the temperature dropped to -3c & in the kennel it fell to 1c. The kennel made very little difference. The accepted minimum for most shortcoat domestic breeds is about 10c.

    The OP is referring to a young pup with a very short coat & small body mass which makes it even more sensitive to cold. Outside need not be cold, miserable & draughty but for thousands of Irish dogs it is just that.

    People make all these improvements to make their kennels warmer but no one bothers to get a €10 thermometer to see if the changes work. If you don't check the temperature then it is all guesswork.


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    #120
    Queen-Mise
    Registered Users Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭Queen-Mise


    I'll bring the pup back in again. I think I might bring the dog back in again as well. Originally I wanted them for house dogs - not for outside.

    I didn't know what was best: leaving her downstairs by herself, or letting her be with Sam at nighttime.

    This should be fun now.


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    #121
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    My pair have now been sleeping inside for a week, but they're still out during the day. So far we've had no nasty surprises other than the fact that at 4am on Saturday they figured out how to open the dishwasher and were discovered one actually in the dishwasher and one happily licking the meat juices from the biggest, sharpest knife I own.


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