Carzone question for dealers

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 12:57pm #1

Hi guys. Read a lot of complaints about carzone being too expensive for your average joe selling cars that aren't worth tens-of-thousands. Being a web developer I've started to wonder why there hasn't been an alternative company come in a snatch it from them. Done deal seems to be taking some sales from them, but being so easily accessible and cheap it makes for a lot of potential scams. That said, I've been told that some small dealers have been selling on it instead of carzone, because of its hefty cost.

I know carzone hosts a lot of the dealers websites, so my question is geared towards them. If a dealer wants to leave carzone, are they allowed keep their site and/or host it elsewhere? Can they keep the domain name also?

George Dalton · 02-07-2012 2:03pm

Speaking from my own experience I would say that if you are trying to get into the business of attracting advertising from car dealers then you are going to be coming from a standing start and will be down the pecking order behind lots of others. We have different people every day ringing us looking for us to advertise with them.

Carzone
Carsireland
Donedeal
Buyandsell
Car Buyers Guide

Carzone is the market leader IMO, followed by Donedeal.

Carsireland seem to be making ground on Carzone and in my opinion have the best website of the lot. Then again having a shockingly bad website doesn't seem to hold Donedeal back.

We advertise on Carsireland, Carzone and Donedeal.

Our website is hosted by Carsireland. I don't know what would happen as regards hosting of the site if we stopped advertising with them to be honest. I know it would stay up for the remainder of the current year but after that I don't know.

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 2:05pm

Loads of companies have tried it but Carzone have many dealers and distributors over a barrel as they host their websites.

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 2:13pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

I know carzone hosts a lot of the dealers websites, so my question is geared towards them. If a dealer wants to leave carzone, are they allowed keep their site and/or host it elsewhere? Can they keep the domain name also?

Sorry for the above reply as I didn't read this bit of your post. It depends from franchise to franchise. For example with some franchises the distributor has done a deal with Carzone to host their own and franchisees sites and the franchisees have no say in the matter. In other instances a similar deal has been done and individual franchisees can opt out if they wish however they well then loose their website. They could of course have a new website designed but then they have to go and change it each time there are model updates / changes. It's handier for them just to continue to pay Carzone €350+ a month.

Each individual dealer has the right to their domain name even if the domain name was purchased by Carzone in the first place.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 2:40pm

George Dalton wrote: »

Speaking from my own experience I would say that if you are trying to get into the business of attracting advertising from car dealers then you are going to be coming from a standing start and will be down the pecking order behind lots of others. We have different people every day ringing us looking for us to advertise with them.

Carzone
Carsireland
Donedeal
Buyandsell
Car Buyers Guide

Carzone is the market leader IMO, followed by Donedeal.

Carsireland seem to be making ground on Carzone and in my opinion have the best website of the lot. Then again having a shockingly bad website doesn't seem to hold Donedeal back.

We advertise on Carsireland, Carzone and Donedeal.

Our website is hosted by Carsireland. I don't know what would happen as regards hosting of the site if we stopped advertising with them to be honest. I know it would stay up for the remainder of the current year but after that I don't know.

Hm, yes it does seem to be a very competitive market. But with Carzone being so popular yet so many complaints about cost, I was just curious as to why things were still the way they are. To me, Donedeal has proved that by undercutting the competition you can gain popularity very quickly, as it has done.

Given that Carsireland hosts your current site, how willing to switch would you be if you were approached by a new startup company that promises much cheaper rates, and at that better and easier to use websites? From my own personal experience I do believe it is true that a lot of dealer websites are terribly maintained and look awful, and being a web designer & developer it often leads me to look elsewhere when looking for a car. Not to the mention the whole mobile apps side of things (Carzone app is horrid visually, they couldn't have put in less effort).

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Sorry for the above reply as I didn't read this bit of your post. It depends from franchise to franchise. For example with some franchises the distributor has done a deal with Carzone to host their own and franchisees sites and the franchisees have no say in the matter. In other instances a similar deal has been done and individual franchisees can opt out if they wish however they well then loose their website. They could of course have a new website designed but then they have to go and change it each time there are model updates / changes. It's handier for them just to continue to pay Carzone €350+ a month.

Each individual dealer has the right to their domain name even if the domain name was purchased by Carzone in the first place.

Wow, that's quite a lot! Is it really that much?

So do Carzone maintain their site for them, or provide them with the tools to maintain it themselves (for adding new cars, dealerships, franchises, etc). With the availability of management systems like Wordpress, Drupal, it should be possible to create easy to use systems.

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 2:50pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

Hm, yes it does seem to be a very competitive market. But with Carzone being so popular yet so many complaints about cost, I was just curious as to why things were still the way they are. To me, Donedeal has proved that by undercutting the competition you can gain popularity very quickly, as it has done.

Given that Carsireland hosts your current site, how willing to switch would you be if you were approached by a new startup company that promises much cheaper rates, and at that better and easier to use websites? From my own personal experience I do believe it is true that a lot of dealer websites are terribly maintained and look awful, and being a web designer & developer it often leads me to look elsewhere when looking for a car. Not to the mention the whole mobile apps side of things (Carzone app is horrid visually, they couldn't have put in less effort).

You can design the best site in the world - but you need the numbers visiting it too.

MatthewRud wrote: »

Wow, that's quite a lot! Is it really that much?

So do Carzone maintain their site for them, or provide them with the tools to maintain it themselves (for adding new cars, dealerships, franchises, etc). With the availability of management systems like Wordpress, Drupal, it should be possible to create easy to use systems.

That much and more if you are paying for premium listed stock, banners, etc. There are multi-franchise dealers out there who are paying this X 2 or 3.

In the case of franchise dealer sites hosted by Carzone the distributor provides all the info to Carzone in terms of content then each dealer uses a programme to maintain their own stock which will then go on their own site, the ditributor site and Carzone itself plus any Carzone affiliated sites e.g. driving.ie

lifer_sean · 02-07-2012 3:10pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

Wow, that's quite a lot! Is it really that much?

Carzone quoted me a "special offer" of 275+vat per month to be able to put up max 10 cars active at a time. This was just for carzone and related sites, and did not include hosting of my own site.

Last night I paid a fiver to get an advert on donedeal, people coming to look at the car today. Granted that particular car is in the sub 5k euro category, and I also put up adverts for 10k+ euro cars and got no calls. For the cheaper cars it's donedeal all the way.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 3:31pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

You can design the best site in the world - but you need the numbers visiting it too.

That much and more if you are paying for premium listed stock, banners, etc. There are multi-franchise dealers out there who are paying this X 2 or 3.

In the case of franchise dealer sites hosted by Carzone the distributor provides all the info to Carzone in terms of content then each dealer uses a programme to maintain their own stock which will then go on their own site, the ditributor site and Carzone itself plus any Carzone affiliated sites e.g. driving.ie

So do the distributors selectively chose Carzone to do this for them, or is a case that Carzone leaves them no choice?

Great info none the less, thanks very much.

lifer_sean wrote: »

Carzone quoted me a "special offer" of 275+vat per month to be able to put up max 10 cars active at a time. This was just for carzone and related sites, and did not include hosting of my own site.

Last night I paid a fiver to get an advert on donedeal, people coming to look at the car today. Granted that particular car is in the sub 5k euro category, and I also put up adverts for 10k+ euro cars and got no calls. For the cheaper cars it's donedeal all the way.

Seems to be the way it is. People looking for cheaper cars tend to go to Donedeal, simply because the people selling them choose it over Carzone. Other way around for the more expensive motors, but at those cars tends to be sold through dealers than private sellers anyway.

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 3:38pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

So do the distributors selectively chose Carzone to do this for them, or is a case that Carzone leaves them no choice?

Great info none the less, thanks very much.

I would imagine that Carzone originally approached the distributors in order to host their websites and now have them over a barrel. They can leave at any time but then they have to get their websites hosted themselves and maintain same. If they go down this route then all the stock drops off Carzone and you would end up with all the dealers going back to Carzone on an individual basis.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 3:59pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I would imagine that Carzone originally approached the distributors in order to host their websites and now have them over a barrel. They can leave at any time but then they have to get their websites hosted themselves and maintain same. If they go down this route then all the stock drops off Carzone and you would end up with all the dealers going back to Carzone on an individual basis.

I see what you mean. They definitely have them tightly sown up. Very interesting stuff though, Google didn't really give me any answers. Interesting to see how they command the market.

Thanks a million once again for your time on this, definitely appreciate it.

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 4:08pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

I see what you mean. They definitely have them tightly sown up. Very interesting stuff though, Google didn't really give me any answers. Interesting to see how they command the market.

Thanks a million once again for your time on this, definitely appreciate it.

No worries - just to add to this most franchised dealers are also members of SIMI and they started their own site a couple of years ago. The idea was that all SIMI members would drop off Carzone en masse and move to Beepbeep.ie. Of course as soon as that would happen you would have individual dealers going back on to Carzone one-by-one in order to give themselves and edge over their competitors.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 6:08pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No worries - just to add to this most franchised dealers are also members of SIMI and they started their own site a couple of years ago. The idea was that all SIMI members would drop off Carzone en masse and move to Beepbeep.ie. Of course as soon as that would happen you would have individual dealers going back on to Carzone one-by-one in order to give themselves and edge over their competitors.

Yeah that makes sense. Can't imagine that would really work out. Becomes a bit of a burden to the SIMI dealers rather than an advantage, hence why it doesn't seem to be working out (at this moment of time I guess).

Are you yourself a car dealer? Or is that classified information :rolleyes: Haha.

oregano · 02-07-2012 6:12pm

George Dalton wrote: »

Speaking from my own experience I would say that if you are trying to get into the business of attracting advertising from car dealers then you are going to be coming from a standing start and will be down the pecking order behind lots of others. We have different people every day ringing us looking for us to advertise with them.

Carzone
Carsireland
Donedeal
Buyandsell
Car Buyers Guide

Carzone is the market leader IMO, followed by Donedeal.

Carsireland seem to be making ground on Carzone and in my opinion have the best website of the lot. Then again having a shockingly bad website doesn't seem to hold Donedeal back.

We advertise on Carsireland, Carzone and Donedeal.

Our website is hosted by Carsireland. I don't know what would happen as regards hosting of the site if we stopped advertising with them to be honest. I know it would stay up for the remainder of the current year but after that I don't know.

I completely agree with the above, and am also hosted by carsireland, who are very approachable.

If I drop off carzone I could lose potential punters, and 375 plus vat is the profit on one car, so quitting them will only happen once done deal or similar becomes market leader. I have sold too many cars to clients who only use carzone to drop out now...(and if I was looking for a property, I'd only use daft, so I understand why they don't keep digging online for cars. If it ain't on the market leader it's probably iffy!)

Last year the tradermedia group, ie carzone, put the charges up both in the uk and here. A bunch of uk dealers fought the increase. They lost, and still use auto trader.

Please op, come up with a plan!

Big Nasty · 02-07-2012 7:09pm

MatthewRud wrote: »

Are you yourself a car dealer? Or is that classified information :rolleyes: Haha.

I used to work for a competitor.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 7:44pm

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I used to work for a competitor.

The secrecy! Haha. Thanks again for the info. Greatly appreciated.

Jonny303 · 02-07-2012 9:10pm

You'll have a very hard time trying to break into it.

BeepBeep which is effectivly dealer owned and it couldn't break carzone

dahamsta · 02-07-2012 11:20pm

I'm a developer too, with data centre resources available. I've looked at this many times over the years and discussed it with people connected to the dealers and distributors, and I've given up every time. If you can come up with a solution, my resources are your resources.

MatthewRud · 02-07-2012 11:32pm

Jonny303 wrote: »

You'll have a very hard time trying to break into it.

BeepBeep which is effectivly dealer owned and it couldn't break carzone

dahamsta wrote: »

I'm a developer too, with data centre resources available. I've looked at this many times over the years and discussed it with people connected to the dealers and distributors, and I've given up every time. If you can come up with a solution, my resources are your resources.

It's not really an idea I'm set on. Like a lot of ideas I've just given it a little thought. May or may not pursue it, but that said there are lots of other things going on at the same time. I was mainly just curious as to how they operated and commanded the market really.

@dahamsta thanks for the kind offer. I'll be in contact if I ever need your services

dahamsta · 02-07-2012 11:39pm

As Jonny303 says, it's a very, very difficult business to break into. You need to find someone with major connections as a partner, and you'll both needs balls of steel. You'll probably need bribe money too, because the whole setup is corrupt as feck, just like most of the Irish "motoring industry".

My servers await if you work it out.

MatthewRud · 03-07-2012 12:27am

dahamsta wrote: »

As Jonny303 says, it's a very, very difficult business to break into. You need to find someone with major connections as a partner, and you'll both needs balls of steel. You'll probably need bribe money too, because the whole setup is corrupt as feck, just like most of the Irish "motoring industry".

My servers await if you work it out.

Corrupt in what kind of ways? Hope you don't mind me asking!

dahamsta · 03-07-2012 1:37am

Corrupt in the way competition is stymied at every turn, for example.

MatthewRud · 03-07-2012 2:07am

dahamsta wrote: »

Corrupt in the way competition is stymied at every turn, for example.

Probably true. Any competition would probably have to take a different approach, create something new and intuitive.

knifey_spoonie · 03-07-2012 9:18am

I wouldn't call it corrupt, Its just the fact carzone is so far ahead of anyone else out there, I have seen so many of these startup's come to me looking for advertising, not one has offered anything extra ordinary. Not one has come to me with a decent USP, the fact is carzone has the best USP of any car sales site- The fact its the biggest.

Another thing to keep in mind is carzone has a bottomless pit of money behind it, its part of the trader media group. If you were to start up and spend 200k on advertising they could turn around and spend 500k.

Its just my 2 cents.

Big Nasty · 03-07-2012 9:29am

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

I wouldn't call it corrupt, Its just the fact carzone is so far ahead of anyone else out there, I have seen so many of these startup's come to me looking for advertising, not one has offered anything extra ordinary. Not one has come to me with a decent USP, the fact is carzone has the best USP of any car sales site- The fact its the biggest.

Another thing to keep in mind is carzone has a bottomless pit of money behind it, its part of the trader media group. If you were to start up and spend 200k on advertising they could turn around and spend 500k.

Its just my 2 cents.

Now you have it!

Your site could be a thousand times better and more efficient. If you want to come out on top you'll need very deep pockets.

AMurph1979 · 03-07-2012 2:06pm

www.BuyandSell.ie and www.CarsIreland.ie have teamed up and you can now have an automatic feed from your CarsIreland account to Buy and Sell, I do some part time work for a car dealer who has signed up to this. No idea if he is getting extra response but he has now dropped Carzone.

cdublin · 03-07-2012 2:14pm

I sell a few cars and used to use carzone a lot but got pis*sed off with their prices.
I sold this car through buyandsell.ie on Saturday, http://www.buyandsell.ie/motors/cars/dublin/hyundai-accent-petrol-2001-3 happy with the response.

If carsireland are getting a similar response and they've teamed up with buyandsell than maybe your right, maybe thats what will crack carzone.

L-M · 03-07-2012 2:39pm

it's cool to be on Carzone, it's the kinda place that at the moment, if you're not on it, you're not worth your salt.

i know a few lads who can demand much more money on carzone than the likes of donedeal etc, people seem to be reassured that they're buying a better car if they're on carzone.

Carzone's full rate is over 400 euro for the month! Which in these times that's a lot, but advertising is needed.

"Donedeal is i great way to get rid of ****e" is probably the most common phrase i've heard lately.

All these other sites, carsireland, buyandsell.ie aren't worth being on if you're on carzone. That said, i know of a few garages on carzone and still the calls aren't coming, but that it more the way the market has gone than anything.

cdublin · 03-07-2012 2:50pm

Limerick man wrote: »

All these other sites, carsireland, buyandsell.ie aren't worth being on if you're on carzone. That said, i know of a few garages on carzone and still the calls aren't coming, but that it more the way the market has gone than anything.

Can't agree with that Limerickman, plus I don't think traders think its cool to be on carzone, up to now its been a necessity. I think its changing though. A few dealer buddies I know are busting to ditch carzone and their prices.

carsireland are starting to make a bit of a ripple becausethey'll give a dealer a site like carzone. One of the lads has already dropped carzone and gone over to having a carsireland site. If the poster above is right and carsireland and buyandsell have a deal to share car stock then I think this is the kind of thing that'll coax people from carzone. Of course it all depends on the price buyandsell/carsireland charge but it must be cheaper than the robbers in carzone.

DavidWills · 03-07-2012 2:51pm

Limerick man wrote: »

it's cool to be on Carzone, it's the kinda place that at the moment, if you're not on it, you're not worth your salt.

i know a few lads who can demand much more money on carzone than the likes of donedeal etc, people seem to be reassured that they're buying a better car if they're on carzone.

Carzone's full rate is over 400 euro for the month! Which in these times that's a lot, but advertising is needed.

"Donedeal is i great way to get rid of ****e" is probably the most common phrase i've heard lately.

All these other sites, carsireland, buyandsell.ie aren't worth being on if you're on carzone. That said, i know of a few garages on carzone and still the calls aren't coming, but that it more the way the market has gone than anything.

Market has slowed down alright! Think you have to work that little bit harder for the sale but I do also think putting the car around other sites gives you more chance in getting rid. Putting all your faith in one area doesn't make sense when times are slow

Big Nasty · 03-07-2012 3:06pm

cdublin wrote: »

Can't agree with that Limerickman, plus I don't think traders think its cool to be on carzone, up to now its been a necessity. I think its changing though. A few dealer buddies I know are busting to ditch carzone and their prices.

I think it's still a necessity. They mightn't think it's cool but they need to be on it!

cdublin wrote: »

carsireland are starting to make a bit of a ripple becausethey'll give a dealer a site like carzone. One of the lads has already dropped carzone and gone over to having a carsireland site. If the poster above is right and carsireland and buyandsell have a deal to share car stock then I think this is the kind of thing that'll coax people from carzone. Of course it all depends on the price buyandsell/carsireland charge but it must be cheaper than the robbers in carzone.

Most of the dealers on CarsIreland are Indy dealers not Franchised. All CarsIreland and B&S are sharing is a platform so you don't have to upload your stock twice. Carzone are expensive for sure but if you combine the traffic of all the other dedicated car sites mentioned Carzone still have higher traffic. Aside from franchised dealers being tied in via their website or distributor Carzone have dealers over a barrel and they know it and charge accordingly.

DavidWills wrote: »

Market has slowed down alright! Think you have to work that little bit harder for the sale but I do also think putting the car around other sites gives you more chance in getting rid. Putting all your faith in one area doesn't make sense when times are slow

The more places a car can be seen the quicker it will sell. What tends to happen is other sites call dealers up, give them a free trial or whatever, upload their stock, then it's not updated, etc. Personally I would be using Carzone plus affiliated sites and DoneDeal. That may be short-sighted or lazy but that's the way it is, and that's where the majority of sales inquiries will come from.

lifer_sean · 05-07-2012 10:32am

cdublin wrote: »

Can't agree with that Limerickman, plus I don't think traders think its cool to be on carzone, up to now its been a necessity. I think its changing though. A few dealer buddies I know are busting to ditch carzone and their prices.

carsireland are starting to make a bit of a ripple becausethey'll give a dealer a site like carzone. One of the lads has already dropped carzone and gone over to having a carsireland site. If the poster above is right and carsireland and buyandsell have a deal to share car stock then I think this is the kind of thing that'll coax people from carzone. Of course it all depends on the price buyandsell/carsireland charge but it must be cheaper than the robbers in carzone.

Got a cold call from a carsireland rep yesterday. The deal they are offering is over 80% cheaper than carzone, and includes hosting my site. They are also pushing their site in the print media. To me it's worth looking at, and I expect the deal will get takers. The carsireland price is about the same as my monthly phone bill. For the carzone price, I could lease a second yard / petrol station forecourt. Can still put up the odd car on carzone anyway if there is something that needs to be shifted.

Carzone question for dealers

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