do you think the present law on learner permits is hypocritical

Media999 · 28-10-2013 1:52am

Just another example of the auld ***** in charge who destroyed the country treating youth like ****. Money scams left right and center.

tim3000 · 28-10-2013 1:57am

Following on from the tough sh1T comment regarding drivers not having an accompanying full licensed driver. I would rather sit in a car with a learner drive that had copious amounts of experience (gained without a an accompanying driver) than a full licensed driver that literally did his/her 12 lessons, sat the test all the time without practicing due a a lack of a full licensed driver to accompany them.

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:01am

Media999 wrote: »

Just another example of the auld ***** in charge who destroyed the country treating youth like ****. Money scams left right and center.

Mwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post is proof that the youth deserve to be treated as slow to learn children. Arrogant, pompous, and yet unknowing.

Media999 · 28-10-2013 2:04am

Cedrus wrote: »

Mwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post is proof that the youth deserve to be treated as slow to learn children. Arrogant, pompous, and yet unknowing.

Im not youth. Full driver with 10 years claims free. never a scratch.

let me guess. your 40 plus and never went through any learning process i suppose.

tim3000 · 28-10-2013 2:04am

Cedrus wrote: »

Mwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post is proof that the youth deserve to be treated as slow to learn children. Arrogant, pompous, and yet unknowing.

Judging by your post all older drivers are sage, conceited, "experts".

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:22am

Media999 wrote: »

Im not youth. Full driver with 10 years claims free. never a scratch.

let me guess. your 40 plus and never went through any learning process i suppose.

40+ yes, but I can't see your reasoning for "never went through any learning process". I have full motorbike and car licences, after which I continued with advanced training. I've already posted a link for advanced driving training in Roadcraft. There was no driving test when my father started driving but that didn't stop him doing the advanced training and test, the skills he learned as a young man meant that he could still drive better after his stroke than some of the teens he shared the road with.

If you're referring to the amnesty when provisional licenses were converted without a test, you'd be looking for people older than me, and that was totally wrong. Just as the OP on this thread and her supporters are.

creep · 28-10-2013 2:26am

Advanced driving ha, Seems like your getting scammed there

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:27am

tim3000 wrote: »

Judging by your post all older drivers are sage, conceited, "experts".

Applied to me personally, I'd take sage as a compliment, I'd have to accept a fair dose of conceit (as many of the younger posters here will eventually). Expert is something I am always aspiring to, learning is a continuous process, anyone who thinks they have nothing more to learn is just a half arsed quitter.

creep · 28-10-2013 2:29am

I'd bet most of the younger drivers are better and safer drivers than you judging by your posts. You really have no clue.

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:30am

creep wrote: »

Advanced driving ha, Seems like your getting scammed there

How so?

J.P.M · 28-10-2013 2:31am

Yeah, you are special

creep · 28-10-2013 2:31am

Cedrus wrote: »

How so?

Advanced driving, its kinda in the name. Money racket scheme.

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:33am

creep wrote: »

I'd bet most of the younger drivers are better and safer drivers than you judging by your posts. You really have no clue.

What are you betting, cash or bullstrut?

Media999 · 28-10-2013 2:33am

Cedrus wrote: »

40+ yes, but I can't see your reasoning for "never went through any learning process". I have full motorbike and car licences, after which I continued with advanced training. I've already posted a link for advanced driving training in Roadcraft. There was no driving test when my father started driving but that didn't stop him doing the advanced training and test, the skills he learned as a young man meant that he could still drive better after his stroke than some of the teens he shared the road with.

If you're referring to the amnesty when provisional licenses were converted without a test, you'd be looking for people older than me, and that was totally wrong. Just as the OP on this thread and her supporters are.

How are youth arrogant when your the one who feels the need to talk down to them and point out how great and qualified your family are?

creep · 28-10-2013 2:35am

Media999 wrote: »

How are youth arrogant when your the one who feels the need to talk down to them and point out how great and qualified your family are?

With his advanced driving haha. How does he not realise those companies are scamming him. I suppose some people fall for it.

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:39am

creep wrote: »

Advanced driving, its kinda in the name. Money racket scheme.

There's no money racket involved, did you even read the link.
There's a book which you buy and read, If you're keen you go out with a group of like minds, in the UK a police rider/driver trainer teaches you for free. Some people think being able to read is a scam :rolleyes:

Cedrus · 28-10-2013 2:45am

creep wrote: »

With his advanced driving haha. How does he not realise those companies are scamming him. I suppose some people fall for it.

Some fools even fall for scams that aren't even there??

creep · 28-10-2013 2:46am

Cedrus wrote: »

Some fools even fall for scams that aren't even there??

You really have no clue do you!

Witcher · 28-10-2013 2:48am

Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

I've nothing against learners, we've all been there, I have never beeped a learner in traffic and never would because I remember being the person cutting the car out when the lights go green and having some dick beep you but they have to abide by the rules ffs.

Media999 · 28-10-2013 2:51am

Blay wrote: »

Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.

creep · 28-10-2013 2:52am

Blay wrote: »

Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

Not really, I was on the road the day I get my license. I was able to drive through towns after a day of getting the license. Been driving two years since on the provisional.

creep · 28-10-2013 2:53am

Media999 wrote: »

Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.

I agree or resit the test. I think anyone who even gets 4 four penalty points should made do 12 lessons and resit the test and have there license taken off them until complete. These are the biggest hazards on the road

tim3000 · 28-10-2013 2:54am

Blay wrote: »

Penalties are not harsh enough for it, insurance companies should refuse to honour the policies of anyone who has an accident while unaccompanied..probably not feasible as it punishes any third party involved but they could honour the 3rd parties damages and then pursue the learner for costs. Some companies are doing this atm I believe.

Fucking ridiculous that you can do a computer test and get behind the wheel of a car and suffer no real consequences if you're caught. Should be put off the road for a year no excuses imo, 1 lesson in or 12 lessons in with your test tomorrow..you don't have a full licence.

I've nothing against learners, we've all been there, I have never beeped a learner in traffic and never would because I remember being the person cutting the car out when the lights go green and having some dick beep you but they have to abide by the rules ffs.

So if I just do my full 12 lessons, sit my test and pass am I then a better or worse driver than someone who has done 12 lessons driven a large amount accompanied and unaccompanied sat his test and passed it?

Witcher · 28-10-2013 2:55am

Media999 wrote: »

Why not bring in a rule that anyone who causes a crash has to get 12 lessons? No matter what age.

I'm not against punishing full licenced drivers when they fcuk up either, I'm not entrenched with the full licence brigade battling back the learners at all.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 2:58am

tim3000 wrote: »

So if I just do my full 12 lessons, sit my test and pass am I then a better or worse driver than someone who has done 12 lessons driven a large amount accompanied and unaccompanied sat his test and passed it?

I'm not getting into hypothetical scenarios which compare driving skill with you.

Do your lessons, drive accompanied and do the test, 3 simple steps.

There are no excuses for driving unaccompanied..I don't care about the sob stories 'oh I've nobody to go with me/I can only drive accompanied a few hours a week' TS..it's going to take you longer then. You can't circumvent laws because they're a bit inconvenient for you.

Media999 · 28-10-2013 2:58am

creep wrote: »

I agree or resit the test. I think anyone who even gets 4 four penalty points should made do 12 lessons and resit the test and have there license taken off them until complete. These are the biggest hazards on the road

If their was little or no long waits for the test yes but that wouldnt be possible. 4 months of a queue here so that makes no sense but would easily be able to enforce lessons on people who cause serious crashes. Maybe even 5 lessons focusing on what caused the crash.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 3:24am

ann13 wrote: »

for all these people who are against learner drivers going unaccompanied, i would like to know how many lessons ye had , who drove with you in the car when learning and how many hours practice outside of lessons did you do. As I drive everyday unaccompanied I probably gained nearly 100 hours of driving experience since I started driving eight weeks ago so I think i'm more experienced than the other learner drivers that stick to lessons because they don't have a driving sponser. If I was to pay for that amount of experience like some people on this thread were saying to do it would have cost me 3,000 euro. For the fact that I am a learner I do be very careful driving as I know i'm inexperienced and don't speed and am always reading the rules of the road and refreshing my skills in lessons that I take every second week. I think the main killer on roads is speed and too high speed limits on country roads. Some country roads have speed limits of 80km I never go that speed as you don't know what is around a bendy corner like on on a corner there was a tractor in the middle of the road if I was going fast I would of crashed no dout. Another time I was going up a hill with a blind corner so you couldn't see if there was a car coming around the corner and a full licience driver was stopped in the middle of the road taking a call and would not move so I had to over take and just as I was over taking on the right on the narrow road a car came speeding around the blind corner. I quickly reversed back behind the stopped car if I did not do this quick like I did I would have been meat. These were all fully licensed drivers as they all looked 50 plus. All near accidents that have happened to me have been as a result of fully licensed drivers. Not forgetting the time when a man was on a phone and I was on a roundabout and he didn't yield to me on the roundabout and was going to join it without looking to traffic to the right and crash right into the side of my car as he was busy on his phone this man looked forty and was a fully licensed driver.

Do you know what/where the return key is?

ann13 · 28-10-2013 3:36am

no I'm too stupid I don't know where it is for I only am a learner driver.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 3:37am

ann13 wrote: »

no I'm too stupid I don't know where it is for I only am a learner driver.

Yeah, that attitude plus your walls of text are really going to convince people to take you seriously.

If you're going to rant the least you could do is make it readable.

creep · 28-10-2013 3:39am

Blay wrote: »

Yeah, that attitude plus your walls of text are really going to convince people to take you seriously.

If you're going to rant the least you could do is make it readable.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 3:40am

creep wrote: »

<Pic snip>

Nice, a real worthwhile contribution.

creep · 28-10-2013 3:46am

Blay wrote: »

Nice, a real worthwhile contribution.

I think it is a valid contribution.

tim3000 · 28-10-2013 3:58am

Blay wrote: »

I'm not getting into hypothetical scenarios which compare driving skill with you.

Do your lessons, drive accompanied and do the test, 3 simple steps.

There are no excuses for driving unaccompanied..I don't care about the sob stories 'oh I've nobody to go with me/I can only drive accompanied a few hours a week' TS..it's going to take you longer then. You can't circumvent laws because they're a bit inconvenient for you.

Its not a hypothetical scenario by any means. Its something that is happening all across the country at the moment. And your response to a simple hypothetical question is to ignore it?

TS..it's going to take you longer then A masterful retort. Tell me what, if any, solution do you have to this situation?

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:01am

tim3000 wrote: »

Its not a hypothetical scenario by any means. Its something that is happening all across the country at the moment. And your response to a simple hypothetical question is to ignore it?

TS..it's going to take you longer then A masterful retort. Tell me what, if any, solution do you have to this situation?

The solution is as I said...do your lessons and drive accompanied in accordance with the law..if you can't do that then you shouldn't be on the road. There are no excuses here, you can't ignore the law because it's inconvenient as I also said. You can't go 130 on the M50 and tell the guards you're in a bit of a rush..the law applies to all people at all times no matter what your circumstances are.

If you"ve nobody to accompany you then it's unfortunate but it doesn't give you permission to take to the road alone.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:07am

ann13 wrote: »

I think your the one on the high horse actually correcting the way I write in a sarcastic manner are you my english teacher. I don't think I have ever corrected my pears like that ever it's very rude your implying i'm stupid if you actually think I don't know where the return key is.

You typed out a whole wall of text, would it have killed you to paragraph it?

I didn't imply you were stupid, I questioned whether you knew what a return key was and where it is. That's not calling into question your intelligence, it's questioning your knowledge of a keyboard.

TheChizler · 28-10-2013 4:07am

You have to think of laws and policies in the context of the general population. The accompanying licenced person law is there not to prevent learners who have had loads of lessons and experience from nipping down to the shops or getting that bit more experience. I think most posters here would agree there's no real harm in that, on the prerequisite that you are driving at a test-passing standard. It's to stop people jumping in cars by themselves the moment they get their learner permit printed out, which of course would happen if the law was removed. Obviously laws can't cater to individuals, it would be unenforceable and subjective to say you're ok to drive alone as long as you feel you have enough experience. It has to be one rule for all.

Individually it's unfair, but necessary overall.

creep · 28-10-2013 4:10am

Everyone drives on there provisional, well most people. The gaurds don't give a **** so whats the harm. Everyone has different opinions. I'll continue to drive on my provisonal and hopefully bother to those then 12 stupid lessons some day but right now I couldn't be arsed.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:15am

creep wrote: »

Everyone drives on there provisional, well most people. The gaurds don't give a **** so whats the harm. Everyone has different opinions. I'll continue to drive on my provisonal and hopefully bother to those then 12 stupid lessons some day but right now I couldn't be arsed.

That's the problem with the law..people like you have no regard for it. You haven't even got a lesson under your belt and you're on the road. I'm going to assume you know how to drive a car with some degree of competency since you drive alone a lot but it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying that all learners are dangerous on the road but you have to abide by the system and if people driving alone are that convinced by their driving skills then they'll have no problem flying through the lessons and the test.

If there were serious consequences to being caught then you and others driving alone would reconsider, if being caught alone meant a year off the road and penalty points when you eventually got back on the road then you would reconsider. Now there basically no punishment, €150 fine or something..ridiculous.

livemusic4life · 28-10-2013 4:18am

I know someone on a provisional license who got in an accident and the insurance company refused to pay out because they were an unaccompanied driver. Injured party were made to claim through some kind of fund. Insurance company then cancelled insurance and person cannot get another company to insure them. Don't think things aren't changing. In the uk you'd be charged for driving without appropriate license and invalid insurance. The same is happening here....

creep · 28-10-2013 4:19am

Blay wrote: »

That's the problem with the law..people like you have no regard for it. You haven't even got a lesson under your belt and you're on the road.

If there were serious consequences to being caught then you and your ilk would reconsider, if being caught alone meant a year off the road and penalty points when you eventually got back on the road then you would reconsider. Now there basically no punishment, €150 fine or something..ridiculous.

Yea obviously if there was harsher penalties I wouldn't drive, been through three checkpoints and two of them just checked tax and insurance and was on my way. One though asked me for my license and said if he saw me out again on my own he would do me. Told him I was running late for work. Thought it was quite funny as he was smiling saying it.

I could meet a prick of a gaurd that could do me, but sure a little fine won't hurt me.

TheChizler · 28-10-2013 4:20am

ann13 wrote: »

when the cop stopped me at the check point he was very abusive and told me to not even drive the car down to the corner shop by myself. I wouldn't mind but I drive safe and my driving instructor has to wait a couple of weeks to upload my 12 lessons on the rsa website because it's having problems so I can't yet get a date for my driving test.

In fairness the guard didn't know you from anyone else, they have to operate under the assumption that you're as bad as the worst of them. You were lucky IMO!

creep · 28-10-2013 4:23am

livemusic4life wrote: »

I know someone on a provisional license who got in an accident and the insurance company refused to pay out because they were an unaccompanied driver. Injured party were made to claim through some kind of fund. Insurance company then cancelled insurance and person cannot get another company to insure them. Don't think things aren't changing. In the uk you'd be charged for driving without appropriate license and invalid insurance. The same is happening here....

That's nonsense. They have to pay out to the third party. Your friend obviously had some wrong information filled in when filling out the insurance form. Probably a named driver under there parents insurance and using the car everyday for college or something in those regions.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:27am

ann13 wrote: »

when the cop stopped me at the check point he was very abusive and told me to not even drive the car down to the corner shop by myself. I wouldn't mind but I drive safe and my driving instructor has to wait a couple of weeks to upload my 12 lessons on the rsa website because it's having problems so I can't yet get a date for my driving test.

Did he do you for it?

Like another poster said..the guards have to assume you're not capable of driving alone because they don't know you.

I know of people that have called the guards when they see learners on their own, I know I've suggested rigidly applying the law but that's a bit much imo.

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:29am

creep wrote: »

Yea obviously if there was harsher penalties I wouldn't drive, been through three checkpoints and two of them just checked tax and insurance and was on my way. One though asked me for my license and said if he saw me out again on my own he would do me. Told him I was running late for work. Thought it was quite funny as he was smiling saying it.

I could meet a prick of a gaurd that could do me, but sure a little fine won't hurt me.

Think a lot of the guards have sympathy because they learned under the old system and they'd feel like a hypocrite for doing ya for it.

tim3000 · 28-10-2013 4:51am

ann13 wrote: »

no he didn't fine me or give me penalty points he just treated me like dirt. It unnerved me as never had dealings with cops before. Now when i see cops I am nervous and that they could be around the corner. Don't like breaking the law I wonder how actual criminals deal with the stress. As if learning to drive is not stressful enough, have to keep driving though as none of my immediate family have a car or licence and are dependent on me to drive them especially since it's coming to winter. My mum is 59 and don't want her tired out walking miles and carrying heavy groceries.

Thats unfortunate, how far are you from doing the test?

Witcher · 28-10-2013 4:57am

ann13 wrote: »

no he didn't fine me or give me penalty points he just treated me like dirt. It unnerved me as never had dealings with cops before. Now when i see cops I am nervous and that they could be around the corner. Don't like breaking the law I wonder how actual criminals deal with the stress. As if learning to drive is not stressful enough, have to keep driving though as none of my immediate family have a car or licence and are dependent on me to drive them especially since it's coming to winter. My mum is 59 and don't want her tired out walking miles and carrying heavy groceries.

If he was going to let you iff with a warning there was no need to rip you out of it, I don't see what purpose that serves.

I understand the situation with your mum and I know I said tough sh1t if you've nobody to accompany you but I have to take that back not everybody's situation is the same and as you said not everybody has somebody close with a licence to go with them.

FanadMan · 28-10-2013 5:28am

creep wrote: »

Yea obviously if there was harsher penalties I wouldn't drive, been through three checkpoints and two of them just checked tax and insurance and was on my way. One though asked me for my license and said if he saw me out again on my own he would do me. Told him I was running late for work. Thought it was quite funny as he was smiling saying it.

I could meet a prick of a gaurd that could do me, but sure a little fine won't hurt me.

This, out of the whole thread shows how stupid the law on unaccompanied drivers is. As far as I am concerned, if someone driving unaccompanied is caught, the fine should be minimum €350. And if caught again, the car should be seized.

I'm not saying all that as a grumpy old b0llix, just as someone who has seen lots of stupid kids driving overpowered cars (paid for by rich daddies), maybe not even a learner permit or insurance.

What if they hit me? Do I have to pay for their stupidity and arrogance (from talking to some of them, they are Gods gift to driving.....well, in their own minds!)

The law is there - drive with an experienced driver. Most of the people here seem to obey the rest of the laws.....drink driving, speeding etc so why not go the whole hog and get the full licence?

MascotDec85 · 28-10-2013 9:39am

Where to start..........

MascotDec85 · 28-10-2013 9:41am

ann13 wrote: »

i've done the 12 lessons and am waiting for them to be uploaded onto rsa website which may take a week or so cos the website has issues. Then when their uploaded i'll get a date don't know how long that will take or what the waiting time is. I can do the three point turn, hill start no bother not great at reversing around the corner need more practice. Doing lessons in the mean time. I have been avoiding certain routes with complicated junctions and lights cos i'm not great at them and are not familiar with cos I didn't do it with the instructor i might get a different instructor for a lesson or two who explains and critiques more while driving, I like the instructor I have now as well their nice.

Ann, there are no issues with the uploading process to my knowledge

ZeitgeistGlee · 28-10-2013 9:48am

Currently learning to drive at the ripe old age of 26, think the law is sensible and completely fair. Then again I'm also for mandatory retesting (theory and practical) of every driver after 10 years and the inclusion of a new plate for after you pass your test for twelve months to notify other road users that the driver may still not be fully confident driving on their own.

do you think the present law on learner permits is hypocritical

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