Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

Kess73 · 11-06-2012 12:39pm

-Ade- wrote: »

The kid played his best football under Villas Boas, as a wing forward. Usually more often than not he did so on the right side. Yet, he still whined, moaned and complained about it all too regularly.

Pace aside which we most certainly need. Do we want to pay the inevitable premium price for an English player with a questionable attitude and whom from what I gather, the fans at least here would like to see on the right wing but they player wouldn't?

Rather we looked outside of England.

Exactly. We could get players just as young and in the same (or a higher) quality bracket but who would cost a hell of a lot less in terms of transfer fee and wages. Plus a lot of that age group who have grown up away from the English way of training young players will be more developed in terms of skill and tactics.

Dickerty · 11-06-2012 12:44pm

-Ade- wrote: »

The kid played his best football under Villas Boas, as a wing forward. Usually more often than not he did so on the right side. Yet, he still whined, moaned and complained about it all too regularly.

Did he? I remember him saying he'd rather play as a striker than a winger, I don't recall him being a serial whinger.

He played his best football at Bolton, as a central striker, alongside Elmander.

I don't understand why he's been written off already...

D'Agger · 11-06-2012 12:45pm

SlickRic wrote: »

ok, i'll have to put "IMO" into all of my posts so people don't think i'm sure about things.

That'd be great cheers.

that's my impression of the two of them, especially Sturridge. very talented, but his attitude really does seem to be questionable.

I thought Sturridge burst his hole for Bolton while he was there tbh, didn't see enough of him for Chelsea this season, I think it's a typical brand given to a young talented player like Sturridge - if he isn't closing players down in Kuyt-like fashion then his work rate isn't deemed high enough. From what I've seen of him, he works hard enough.

The only place his attitude has seemed to come out was his complaining of not getting game time in his preferred position - which signifies a lack patience more than anything

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 12:48pm

Dickerty wrote: »

He's a monster, in the way that Sami was. Soto game us a little of that presence from set pieces, but Dani and Skittles never really have. I would love to see a CB pairing of him and Dani for a spell...

Indeed. Importance of having a CB who can pop up with the odd goal here and there throughout the season is invaluable. Point in case Vidic, Terry, Rio Vermaelen, Lescott, Kompany, Gallas and of course Sami in recent years gone by, going clutch in big moments of big games and grabbing a crucial goal.

Soto despite his obvious flaws, did offer us this threat. My god, he was a handful at times when he did play. Probably should have scored a few more goals than he did in the end. In fairness, Skrtel was much more positive attacking set pieces too but he still could improve further more in that regard.

But yeah, I miss Sami

Dickerty · 11-06-2012 12:50pm

Kess73 wrote: »

Exactly. We could get players just as young and in the same (or a higher) quality bracket but who would cost a hell of a lot less in terms of transfer fee and wages. Plus a lot of that age group who have grown up away from the English way of training young players will be more developed in terms of skill and tactics.

But a lot of them take time to settle, or never do. And the tactics and gameplay they need to get used to are the tactics used in England, not in the country they have come from.

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't pay a big premium just because he's English, but to discount his potential for the very same reason is nonsensicle...nonicicle...silly!

missingtime · 11-06-2012 12:53pm

Dickerty wrote: »

But a lot of them take time to settle, or never do. And the tactics and gameplay they need to get used to are the tactics used in England, not in the country they have come from.

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't pay a big premium just because he's English, but to discount his potential for the very same reason is nonsensicle...nonicicle...silly!

I think if a player is bought for a particular system he will fit in well no matter his nationality. Benitez bought Torres because he new he would fit into his system and he had a game plan. And Torres was a risk.

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 12:55pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Did he? I remember him saying he'd rather play as a striker than a winger, I don't recall him being a serial whinger.

He played his best football at Bolton, as a central striker, alongside Elmander.

I don't understand why he's been written off already...

He was in the papers most weeks saying he wanted to play ST from what I remember. This was at a time where he was coming along very well on that right wing. If he was playing badly, then I can have understand his frustrations to an extent. But that wasn't the case.

Less pressure at Bolton, where he had less responsibility. He did very well, sure. But for a big club, you don't complain when you have a role to do. Kuyt for us being the ultimate example of this. Got his head down and got on with it, and every time gave 100%. I don't think we'd get that from willingness to adapt to situations from Sturridge. We could sign him, and he could be a turn up for the books and so on. But I'm not entirely sure.

Kess73 · 11-06-2012 1:14pm

Dickerty wrote: »

But a lot of them take time to settle, or never do. And the tactics and gameplay they need to get used to are the tactics used in England, not in the country they have come from.

I absolutely agree that we shouldn't pay a big premium just because he's English, but to discount his potential for the very same reason is nonsensicle...nonicicle...silly!

Unlike the English players that settle straight away. Said this over and over on here, but take a look at Liverpool's record with buying players over the past 20 years. The bigger money English players that Liverpool have bought in that period have a much higher failure rate that the foreign ones in terms of settling quickly on the pitch.

The premiership proven thing is just a BS myth peddled by the likes of Sky for morons to repeat ad nauseam, as is the whole rubbish about how English players settle quicker because they are used to the language/food/weather.

As for discounting his potential....show me where I said that. I said that the guy had genuine pace, some good skills, and had good phyical qualities. I questioned his game intelligence, something that to date in his career he appears to be sorely lacking in. I also said that similar level players, or better, were available abroad for far less money. Makes more sense to me to spend less money if you are bringing in roughly the same level of quality/potential.

Sturridge is probably a much better player and striker than Andy Carroll, but I would hope that if Liverpool are looking to bring in a first team striker that "better than Andy Carroll" is not the only criteria the club has.

Sturridge would be, imho, a good back up player for a team that has a higher class mobile and pacy finisher as their first choice.

Soarer · 11-06-2012 2:06pm

Anyone notice that Sturridge hasn't been heard moaning since AVB left?

The easily swayed could be convinced that he was part of BBJT's agenda to get rid of AVB! :cool:

Kess73 · 11-06-2012 2:17pm

Soarer wrote: »

Anyone notice that Sturridge hasn't been heard moaning since AVB left?

The easily swayed could be convinced that he was part of BBJT's agenda to get rid of AVB! :cool:

Funnily enough his goals per game ratio went to hell after AVB left, and he also had more time as an unused sub after AVB left.

2 goals from 13 games after AVB, and 11 from 22 games under AVB.

Hank Scorpio · 11-06-2012 2:23pm

Greediest player in the EPL imo

Francie Barrett · 11-06-2012 2:49pm

nuxxx wrote: »

Greediest player in the EPL imo

When the team plays well, I think Sturridge generally plays well too. The problem is when things go wrong, he struggles. Competition for the top 4 is going to be intense next year, so I don't think we can afford to carry a player who will go missing.

Kess73 · 11-06-2012 3:10pm

nuxxx wrote: »

Greediest player in the EPL imo

Joe Cole's waistline says otherwise.

Jayob10 · 11-06-2012 3:11pm

If Rodgers is true to his principles of being an advocate of keeping possession, using it effectively etc... then he won't be interested in Sturridge.

Sturridge doesn't fit a system really, hes an individual. Give it to him and see if he can do something off the cuff. Problem is, he has not got enough quality to warrant a free role like that for a top team.

He'll catch the eye at Spurs or somewhere where he'll get a game centrally, but it'll generally be to the detriment of the teams overall system.

~Rebel~ · 11-06-2012 3:13pm

Every time he ran down the right, you knew exactly what he was going to do. Didn't matter what options were inside, who was there waiting for a tap in, every time he'd just lash it at goal. The fact that most of the time it was either an easy save, or side netting only seemed to make him do it even more in order to get that goal to rectify his mistakes. And when he would score, it looked like it just solidified his own mentality that this was the way to go. As Kess said, he just seems like he has no idea what's actually going on on the pitch and instead trusts entirely in his physical abilities.

He played largely wide, and had 93 shots in the league, with only 3 assists. What if he had passed, say, 50 more times instead of pointlessly lashing it. Only a third of his shots are on target, and he only scores around 12% of his shots.

For a lower to mid table team, he's a great option as he'll get a certain amount of goals with his own ability, with the players around him maybe not being of a high enough level to offer alternative options anyway. But for a team aspiring to take that next step up, he's not a good option. Yes, he scores some goals, but how many does he cost a team with his completely lack of teamplay?

There's a reason that he's not getting a look in at centre forward for chelsea, despite their woes in the position last season.

For 15 million I think we could get someone with his physical ability, but with awareness too.

Dickerty · 11-06-2012 3:39pm

There is a lot of tweaking arguments to suit people's positions! And yes, I know I am doing that too.

Imagine if we had played a young Robbie Fowler or Michael Owen as a winger instead of a striker. Would they automatically start putting in goal-scoring crosses and not be inclined to shoot when given a look at goal? I suspect they might be in a similar position to Sturridge. He's a central striker, strikers are selfish by nature. It took Kuyt a couple of seasons to play as a real winger, getting to the byeline and putting in good crosses.

Also, he's a left footer deployed on the right. So you would suspect they WANT him to be cutting in for shots.

No, he is not the finished article. No player is until someone helps them become so. AVB played him as a winger, which is not his position, and RDM hardly played him at all. When is he going to develop in his chosen position?

Sum-up: I think he's worth the risk for the RIGHT money.

~Rebel~ · 11-06-2012 3:55pm

Dickerty wrote: »

There is a lot of tweaking arguments to suit people's positions! And yes, I know I am doing that too.

Imagine if we had played a young Robbie Fowler or Michael Owen as a winger instead of a striker. Would they automatically start putting in goal-scoring crosses and not be inclined to shoot when given a look at goal? I suspect they might be in a similar position to Sturridge. He's a central striker, strikers are selfish by nature. It took Kuyt a couple of seasons to play as a real winger, getting to the byeline and putting in good crosses.

Also, he's a left footer deployed on the right. So you would suspect they WANT him to be cutting in for shots.

No, he is not the finished article. No player is until someone helps them become so. AVB played him as a winger, which is not his position, and RDM hardly played him at all. When is he going to develop in his chosen position?

Sum-up: I think he's worth the risk for the RIGHT money.

Yeah, I mean, there is a price at which he's a decent option up front. But that price would be something low enough to allow us to bring a first choice in ahead of him too. If we're bringing in one striker, I don't want it to be him.

Being selfish as a striker is one thing, but I genuinely think he is simply unaware of the options around him rather than actively choosing not to take them. Pippo Inzaghi is selfish, Milan Baros doesn't see his options. I think a lot more can be done with the former than the latter.

Grayditch · 11-06-2012 4:04pm

Enjoying the relative lack of cringeworthy bull written about us this summer, thanks to a lot of the hacks being busy with Hodgson's decisions in the Euros.

mike65 · 11-06-2012 4:08pm

It looks like Aquilani is being shoved out the door for whatever LFC can get for him.

Jesus Wept · 11-06-2012 4:43pm

Roy just gave an interview and was going on about how 'the England jersey is a heavy one to wear, it's been well documented', just lifting our Buck's comments from last week.

Was quite strange.

Dr Galen · 11-06-2012 5:00pm

Aquilani going for about 3 million is what I've heard. If so, then potentially the worst business we've ever done as a club. Such a shame, because he is actually a good player and seems to be over the worst of his injuries.

As for Roy's pronouncements to the media, will since taking the job they've all been rather strange. It's taken some time, but Roy seems to have dampened a whole nations expectations. While I never bought into the team of world beaters that they were often made out to be, they are certainly capable of more than Roy is saying. I'm all for realism when it comes to expectations, but what he does is nothing more than cowardice in my book.

~Rebel~ · 11-06-2012 5:09pm

Dr Galen wrote: »

As for Roy's pronouncements to the media, will since taking the job they've all been rather strange. It's taken some time, but Roy seems to have dampened a whole nations expectations. While I never bought into the team of world beaters that they were often made out to be, they are certainly capable of more than Roy is saying. I'm all for realism when it comes to expectations, but what he does is nothing more than cowardice in my book.

Yeah, it's actually really weird - it's like there's a nationwide agreement to just forget that under Capello they absolutely demolished their qualifying group! Now, they do have some seriously bad luck with injuries, but of the team that's there, the negativity surrounding them is crazy. Normally they're insanely positive - guaranteeing success, now they're insanely negative - guaranteeing failure...why can't they just be somewhat realistic. Our media has a habit of overdoing it, but there's is a whole other level.

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 5:35pm

*See's a perfect set piece ball from Gerrard for England*

*Reflects on all the similar types of set piece deliveries for club*

*Face rubs Hodgson style*

Phoenix Park · 11-06-2012 5:50pm

Anyone see Woy doing a T-Rex style backward jump/dance yesterday on ITV in the build up to the Spain v Italy game?. Footage from England training. Really bizarre, i was in a bar watching it and couldn't stop laughing.

Sir Gallagher · 11-06-2012 5:58pm

-Ade- wrote: »

*See's a perfect set piece ball from Gerrard for England*

*Reflects on all the similar types of set piece deliveries for club*

*Face rubs Hodgson style*

He's whipped in plenty of quality crosses from that position for us. Its te corners which arent great.

machiavellianme · 11-06-2012 6:12pm

Like that last corner straight to the keeper

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 6:58pm

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

He's whipped in plenty of quality crosses from that position for us. Its te corners which arent great.

Once upon a time ago. His set pieces in general have been dreadful for the better part of 2, maybe 3 seasons IMHO.

Bobeagleburger · 11-06-2012 7:01pm

I thought Gerrard was one of England's better players tbh.

Roys tactics were shockingly poor though.

Funky G · 11-06-2012 7:03pm

mike65 wrote: »

It looks like Aquilani is being shoved out the door for whatever LFC can get for him.

Looks like it.

AC Milan penny pinching - best part of 40-50m coming in from the sale of Silva and 3m out for aquaman. i think he only has 2 years left on his contract. with a year to go yes at 3m if it doesn't work out in the meantime.

would like to see him get at least one more chance under BR but me thinks he doesn't want to come back.

donfers · 11-06-2012 7:12pm

Dr Galen wrote: »

Aquilani going for about 3 million is what I've heard. If so, then potentially the worst business we've ever done as a club. Such a shame, because he is actually a good player and seems to be over the worst of his injuries.

quite a bold statement seeing as there is so much competition

CHAD
keane
cheyrou/diouf/diao
pennant
poulsen/konchesky

but yes he's definitely right up there, it's between him, downing, keane and diouf in my opinion and cole's wages too in terms of money wasted

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 7:21pm

Voromania will be running soon. Can't wait!

mike65 · 11-06-2012 7:28pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was one of England's better players tbh.

Roys tactics were shockingly poor though.

They were designed to win a point, England won a point. Its ROY for petes sake!

missingtime · 11-06-2012 8:18pm

Anyone any comment on rasmus elm? We've been linked with him.

I've only seen him take a free kick. It wasn't very good, so if he does come he should fit right in

klose · 11-06-2012 8:26pm

Too busy watching voronin :cool:

willowthewisp · 11-06-2012 8:30pm

donfers wrote: »

quite a bold statement seeing as there is so much competition

CHAD
keane
cheyrou/diouf/diao
pennant
poulsen/konchesky

but yes he's definitely right up there, it's between him, downing, keane and diouf in my opinion and cole's wages too in terms of money wasted

At least we recouped most of the money for him

joe123 · 11-06-2012 9:12pm

Elm has been non existent.

Nuri Sahin · 11-06-2012 9:14pm

-Ade- wrote: »

Voromania will be running soon. Can't wait!

.. he's actually had a pretty decent game :pac:

whatawaster · 11-06-2012 9:41pm

Thought Elm played well myself

G.K. · 11-06-2012 9:43pm

Voronin's just had the best game of his I've ever seen.

mike65 · 11-06-2012 10:32pm

G.K. wrote: »

Voronin's just had the best game of his I've ever seen.

Ah you clearly didn't see him playing Besiktas, he didn't score of course but was in the thick of that game that night.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7076592.stm

missingtime · 12-06-2012 12:17am

Barcelona have decided to put Cristian Tello on transfer. He's now available for £8.1 million. Liverpool are very keen. [via Sport] -- Eziz Allamov (@EzizAllamov)

...

Hoki · 12-06-2012 12:29am

missingtime wrote: »

Barcelona have decided to put Cristian Tello on transfer. He's now available for £8.1 million. Liverpool are very keen. [via Sport] -- Eziz Allamov (@EzizAllamov)

...

That would be a class signing but I can't see it happening, hes lightning fast & plays his best football on the left wing & scores a lot of goals from cutting inside on his right foot. We already have Sterling to play this role , signing Tello would stunt Sterlings progress I think.

Super-Rush · 12-06-2012 12:33am

Balague was saying we were linked with him towards the end of the season.

Which means we're not.

Leiva · 12-06-2012 6:42am

Right signing off for a few days lads. Heading over to Gdansk & Poznan for nine days to support the boys and bring over a sack full of luck that I have been gathering up the last few days ( God knows we need it).

I will up date the hottie thread of course if I bump into any beauties.

Ohhhh those Spanish ladies **rubs knees with both hands.

Vicxas · 12-06-2012 6:57am

Leiva wrote: »

Right signing off for a few days lads. Heading over to Gdansk & Poznan for nine days to support the boys and bring over a sack full of luck that I have been gathering up the last few days ( God knows we need it).

I will up date the hottie thread of course if I bump into any beauties.

Ohhhh those Spanish ladies **rubs knees with both hands.

We'll be here to comfort you when you get back

machiavellianme · 12-06-2012 9:12am

Leiva wrote: »

Right signing off for a few days lads. Heading over to Gdansk & Poznan for nine days to support the boys and bring over a sack full of luck that I have been gathering up the last few days ( God knows we need it).

I will up date the hottie thread of course if I bump into any beauties.

Ohhhh those Spanish ladies **rubs knees with both hands.

Have a good one but leave that sack full of luck behind and take it to Anfield next season!

Francie Barrett · 12-06-2012 10:09am

Dr Galen wrote: »

Aquilani going for about 3 million is what I've heard.

http://www.football365.com/transfer-blog/7807642/The-F365-Transfer-Blog

Word from Italy now, and specifically Corriere dello Sport, who claim that AC Milan want to renew Alberto Aquilani's loan from Liverpool.

You may remember that the cheeky rascals stopped short of playing the midfielder for the requisite number of games that would trigger a bid for a permanent transfer last season, but now apparently they want to borrow him again for another season.

It's a bit like asking to taste some soup before you order it, taking a big spoonful, saying you're not sure, taking another big spoonful and before you know it half the soup is gone and you haven't paid for it.

Sort of. Anyway, away from soup, the paper also suggests that Liverpool might even terminate Aquilani's contract because it will save them a few bob in wages. Interesting.

I get the feeling that this guy just has no interest in playing for us, especially considering that he's had the chance to play under 3 managers now.

barone · 12-06-2012 10:50am

more i hear about the whole aquilani affair the more it angers me.

NabyLadistheman · 12-06-2012 10:59am

If we extend the loan for another year I will lose faith with the board executive. It's time this saga was brought to an end

Bobeagleburger · 12-06-2012 11:02am

Get rid of him quick and end the saga. Disaster from day 1

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

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