placename: Phibsboro & Cross Guns Bridge

BoySnowie · 24-02-2012 11:52pm #1

Everyone,

Phibsboro - the name in Irish is Baile Phib which I suspect is a direct transliteration but does anyone here know who "Phib" is?

Cross Guns Bridge (formerly Westmoreland Bridge) - how did the bridge change names to Cross Guns and who/what is Cross Guns?

CDfm · 25-02-2012 12:08pm

Chapters of Dublin does an Index of street names.

Phibs is a corruption of Phipps (or a mispelling of fibs if you rented a flat there ever)

Phipps was either an office holder or property owner in the area .

Phibsborough. (Broadstone.) 1792. [Spelled Phippsborough.]
From Edward Phipps (will, 1629), 4th s. of Richard Phipps (of Kilmainham), who d. 1629, and was bur. at S. James's. [Pedigree of Phipps or Phibbs family, - Sligo, 1890.]

Cross Guns seems to be named after a Pub.

Cross something means a crossing at ...etc.

Thats an explanation but I can find no real reference for it other than this.

Gun-al (S. Werburgh-str.) 1660. (Hughes's S. John's, 136, From an inn, kept here by Eustace Hooker, with the of the Gun. (Cf. the Big Gun at Fairview, and Cross Guns, near Phibsborough.)
Previously called Leventhorpe's-al., q.v.

http://www.chaptersofdublin.com/books/DublinSt/dubindex.htm

CDfm · 25-02-2012 12:26pm

This appears to be the rest of the story

The Broadstone Line of the Royal Canal

If you’ve come to this page after walking from Connolly Station to Newcomen Bridge and then to Cross Guns Bridge, as described on this page, welcome back.
In 1790 the Earl of Westmoreland, the Lord Lieutenant, laid the first stone of a lock at Phibsborough, at what is now Cross Guns Bridge. At the time, the lock and the bridge were named after the Earl, and the Ordnance Survey map of 1907/11 still shows his name (you can switch to the Historic 6″ map, from around 1840, and the Historic 25″, around 1900).
But even the OS map of 1837/44 shows the lock as the fifth, with four more (nos 4, 3, 2 and 1) between that point and the Royal Canal Docks, and another lock, a sea lock, between there and the Liffey. So why did the Earl start at 5 rather than 1?
The answer is that the terminus of the Royal Canal, as originally conceived, was not at the Liffey but at the Broadstone. Indeed, in evidence to the Railway Commissioners, whose Second Report was published in 1838, the Royal Canal Company Engineer, Mr Tarrant, said that the canal had two branches: one went to Longford while the other “branch from the Broadstone level is 2 miles, when it enters the River Liffey”. The line to the Liffey was clearly of less importance; the harbour at the Broadstone was close to the city markets and to many institutions including the Richmond Penitentiary, the Richmond Lunatic Asylum, the North Dublin Union Workhouse, the Female Penitentiary, the Linen Hall and the Queen’s Inns (it’s useful to look around the area on the older Ordnance Survey maps). There was a Royal Canal Hotel at the Broadstone and that was where the (passenger-carrying) passage-boats left from.

http://irishwaterwayshistory.com/abandoned-or-little-used-irish-waterways/waterways-in-dublin/the-broadstone-line-of-the-royal-canal/

So as far as I can see its Royal Canal related

royal-canal-lock-5-1_resize.jpg?w=500

http://irishwaterwayshistory.com/abandoned-or-little-used-irish-waterways/waterways-in-dublin/visit-dublin-walk-canals-drink-beer/

So it may have started off as Westmoreland Bridge after the Earl of Westmoreland but the locals called it "Cross Guns".

I don't know but that seems to be what the material says.

pedroeibar1 · 25-02-2012 5:40pm

CDfm wrote: »

Cross Guns seems to be named after a Pub.

Cross something means a crossing at ...etc.

I agree that Cross /ed Guns is from an old alehouse sign, but suggest it has nothing to do with a crossing. There are several pubs of that name in the UK. Crossed guns is derived from military insignia, and can be attached to either cavalry, infantry or artillery, depending on the date of the period and the type of firearm used on the badge. Gun itself is derived from ‘Gunhilde’ and dates to the 1300’s in England, where a weapon listed at Windsor is named ‘Gunhilde’ – appropriate as Gunhildr means war battlemaid in Old Norse. Most guns have female name, e.g. Big Bertha is named after the steelmaker’s wife Bertha Krupp, a lady of considerable size and foreboding characted. Brown Bess , Mons Meg, etc.

CDfm · 25-02-2012 7:25pm

An interesting aside is that Island Bridge used to be called Sarah's Bridge after a Countess of Westmoreland.

So Cross Guns is not solved yet.

EDIT - here is a map from 1798 and it does not appear on that

http://dublin1798.com/dublin09.htm

The map is fairly interactive so what streets and roads were there ?

spurious · 25-02-2012 9:31pm

That 1798 map shows 'Cross Guns' as being the road leading up to what we now call Doyle's Corner.

One from 1837 shows a bigger area (or possibly a house or building) called Cross Guns. It is the other side of the canal.
picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=12076

An 1840s map shows something similar.

By 1885, there is the Cross Guns area as shown in 1836, but also a 'Cross Guns South' covering where the prison is.
picture.php?albumid=309&pictureid=12078

CDfm · 25-02-2012 9:47pm

spurious wrote: »

One from 1837 shows a bigger area (or possibly a house or building) called Cross Guns. It is the other side of the canal.

An 1840s map shows something similar.
.

I am holding out for the Superpub

So the Westmoreland Bridge name didn't catch on.

Weren't their foundries in the area or as pedroeibar1 says a military insignia .

Was there a military fort or barracks near there.

gaiscioch · 04-06-2014 2:42pm

CDfm wrote: »

So the Westmoreland Bridge name didn't catch on.

This would seem to be correct, given that Westmoreland Bridge was only built in 1790. According to one of the historical sources attached to the Logainm.ie entry for Crossguns:

'1741: That slated stone house...near the Cross Gunns...commonly called the Royal Oak and lying where the road from Finglas Bridge to Dublin and the road leading from Glasnevin to Dublin meet'

nuac · 04-06-2014 10:33pm

I see the entry re Phipps refers to Sligo.

there was a very well know firm of solicitors there entitled Argue and Phibbs. Still practising under another name

placename: Phibsboro & Cross Guns Bridge

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