Moving to Germany?

spiralism · 30-07-2015 3:09am #1

Strongly considering moving over in the next couple of months. I'm unsure as to where but having done a bit of homework on it already, im tentatively ruling out Berlin as it would be a bit too difficult to find work. I'm keen on Munich as the Bavarian lifestyle appeals to me the most but i'm also hearing that the cost of living there is very high and finding a place is a nightmare, two major red flags for me as i formerly lived in Amsterdam and had to deal with those issues.

Any advice? Giving Cologne some thought as i've been there a few times and loved it, though as i said previously, im a little more inclined to try the south. Places like Augsburg, Freiburg and Nuremberg in the south are intriguing but i'm also a little worried as to the lack of an English speaking community, i don't want to have no social life for months on end either.

Doing a TEFL cert at present and hoping to find some work in the field.

Anyone able to advise?

murphaph · 30-07-2015 11:55am

If you like the Bavarian lifestyle (well, I think you really mean Upper-Bavarian, or Oberbayern) then go there. I can see the attraction (and I am settled in Berlin). Good access to the Alps and neighbouring countries. Munich as you say is horribly expensive (my employer has their HQ in Munich and the other half's sister lives there, so I'm very familiar with the place) and I'm afraid to say that teaching English does not pay particularly well as far as I know.

Maybe check out toytown, but beware there are some extremely negative people on there, so take everything you read with a pinch of salt.

munchkin_utd · 03-08-2015 1:17pm

agh, cost of living is not bad in Munich. I'd say Amsterdam or paris would indeed be way worse.
Eating out and pints in a pub are reasonable enough, groceries are a bit cheaper than Ireland and theres Aldis and Lidls everywhere.
The one bitch about the place is getting accomodation. The rent is comparible to Dublin , if not cheaper (well, for 1 or 2 bed apartments. Dublin is cheaper for family houses). Getting a place though can be difficult as theres massive demand on accomodation.
No idea on teaching english or what it pays.

newacc2015 · 03-08-2015 4:11pm

I have lived in Munich. Rent is as expensive as Dublin, but day to day living generally is cheaper. eg food is cheap, pint is about €3.5/4. Munich is a super safe city. As in painfully safe. We lost our phones drunk a few times and they always ended up in the police station. The people are super trustworthy. But a bit rigid and inflexible. They arent the most welcoming to English Speakers. My friends and I have tons of stories of people, giving us **** for being English Speaking(but they were older people)

There is a fair amount of Irish in Munich. You will hear a lot more irish accents, than British or people from any other English speaking countries. The Germans love Irish. Munich has a better labour market in Germany by far. If you are female, you can find extremely well paid work as a nanny

You can get bus around Europe cheaply around Europe eg Munich to Milan for about €40/50. Munich is by far one of the nicest places I have been. There is no negatives to living there other than the German mindset eg not the best sense of humour They can appear a bit cold and unwelcoming. When Germans get to know you, they are really loyal and kind.

18MonthsaSlave · 03-08-2015 4:17pm

Baden-Wuerttemburg FTW
similar relaxed style like Bayern
Good climate.
Good economy.

riffmongous · 03-08-2015 4:22pm

Don't rule out Austria either, Vienna is pretty comparable to Munich I'd guess and has a very good english speaking community, you'll have no trouble making friends (native or irish/english speaking) if you go along to any of the irish pubs. My rent was cheap when I got it a few years ago, be warned that estate agent fees have to be paid for most rental apartments if you want to live on your own. Transport is very cheap, 365€ for a year ticket for all public transport in vienna (much cheaper than stuttgart where I am now), cost of living is a bit dearer than germany but there are loads of lidl and aldis so you can still shop cheap. You are also very close to Germany/Italy/Czech/Hungary/Balkans for travelling.

I've been in Stuttgart for a few months now and it seems pretty nice, but I cant tell you anything about the cost of rent. The local area is also pretty nice with some great day trips possible to villages and castles an hour or two away. The city isn't as nice as vienna though.

c montgomery · 03-08-2015 4:27pm

I've worked in karlsruhe many times and have to say it's a lovely place. It's a small city but with everything you could want along with a strong manufacturing base and fantastic transportation. Summers are fantastic, winters cold but well managed and less hassle than irish winters.
It also has great facilities.
I was flirting with the idea of moving there myself however child number 1 is happy in school and don't want to unsettle them.

munchkin_utd · 03-08-2015 4:35pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

<snip>
There is a fair amount of Irish in Munich. You will hear a lot more irish accents, than British or people from any other English speaking countries. The Germans love Irish. Munich has a better labour market in Germany by far. If you are female, you can find extremely well paid work as a nanny
<snip>

theres actually about 5000 brits, another 5000 americans and only 750 odd irish so the irish are really outnumbered by the other english speakers.

At mother and baby groups or baby cafes you'd see the amount of English more than in a pub.

about the general population not liking english speakers, I havent had that problem at all to be honest. The germans are latenty racist, but they seem to not mind white north europeans working in good jobs and paying their taxes and pensioners pensions.
(i.e. they'd be giving out about foreigners and whatnot, and you'd mention that you arent a german and therefore a foreigner, but they'd qualify that with Irish not really counting as being a proper foreigner! )

07-08-2015 4:04pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

theres actually about 5000 brits, another 5000 americans and only 750 odd irish so the irish are really outnumbered by the other english speakers.

Really has it changed that much, used to be nearly double that in Irish citizens living in Munich?

Niall_daaS · 12-08-2015 7:42am

spiralism wrote: »

but i'm also a little worried as to the lack of an English speaking community, i don't want to have no social life for months on end either.

Wouldn't be worried about this. As you pointed out so far you prefer living in a city and the bigger cities like munich, hamburg, cologne, berlin are very multicultural and most German people learn English as a 2nd language in school. So I'd say you'll be fine in socialising besides other Englishspeakers.

As I'm from the Ruhr Area this is a very multicultural place and a massive number of people is living here. It's very cheap for living, but hard to get work if you're not a wanted specialist. But for students it must be great as a lot of universities are located here and leaving costs are reasonable. Other bigger Cities like Cologne or Dusseldorf (with their airports to Dublin) are close enough and it's roughly in a center position so travelling around Germany is easy enough as most places are in a fair distance.

But lifestyle is completly different to the Bavarian F*ckers

shane9689 · 15-08-2015 3:09am

First off, Learn the language as quickly as you can. People will speak english, but youll get to know people better and understand the culture by speaking German.

Also, decide an area! Germany is Huge and there are cultural variations everywhere. Even within Bavaria, you have Franconians and Bavarians, who consider themselves different. Despite this though, there's a General German Culture that newacc2015 explained pretty well.

They will seem unfriendly at times, but just understand that this is part of their culture... We are brought up to be welcoming and warm, while they are brought to be more "to the point" when dealing with people.

This said, They are extremely good looking in general! (always a bonus) they love the irish and ireland. And they have a similar drinking culture to us and their beer and wines are the best.

The only down sides are, they have a terrible sense of humour imo. They think being goofy is funny, and youll find alot of their comedy and stage performances really whacky and just weird.
They lack the dry/dark humour we have. sarcasm can often go over their heads.

also, their music scene is mediocre, im pretty sure ireland is better for music, but they do get alot of foreign acts touring their country (especially irish ones), so youll still get good music, just maybe not locally.

Everything is neat and tidy and safe, but as another poster said, this is also bit of a downer, as things can be abit too safe and boring. Unlike Ireland, you wont find as many "lads" having the craic, spontaneity really isnt their thing. and ive actually had Germans say this is partly why they love ireland, you can let your hair down more in Ireland.
THat said, they do have great festivals, and Bavaria is the best area for this. Octoberfest etc....are great craic

also, Motor ways are brilliant, go as fast as you like

brassringclub · 04-09-2015 8:24pm

Ive toyed with the idea of heading to live in Berlin for quite a while now.

i have a degree, 4/5 years work experience, no German though. Is there much demand for English Speaking Graduates over there?

murphaph · 04-09-2015 10:12pm

Erm....what did you graduate in?

Niall_daaS · 07-09-2015 12:31pm

brassringclub wrote: »

Ive toyed with the idea of heading to live in Berlin for quite a while now.

i have a degree, 4/5 years work experience, no German though. Is there much demand for English Speaking Graduates over there?

That really depends on what your doing. Germany is big in exporting goods so there is a lot of internation business happening where English is essential. On the other hand your colleagues will probably speak German and your job will not be everything so at least some basic German skills are necessary to not get lost in your daily life.

munchkin_utd · 07-09-2015 12:39pm

brassringclub wrote: »

Ive toyed with the idea of heading to live in Berlin for quite a while now.

i have a degree, 4/5 years work experience, no German though. Is there much demand for English Speaking Graduates over there?

why Berlin?

you do know that its not the centre of commerce and industry in Germany.
VERY much not so.

it was amusing, bordering on hilarious, that at the beginning of the economic crisis 1000s of Greek and Portugese landed to Berlin looking for jobs and being surprised that it wasnt really the most vibrant ecomomic place in the world and ended up homeless and needing to be helped by the locals.

Theres lots of ex pats woking in tourism, and 1000s of ex pats out there in a flat with daddy paying the rent for them to have a gap year, or be a hippy, or a painter, but the jobs for graduates in general are elsewhere.

(that said, there are supposedly jobs in IT and that, but you should research what you are up to before making the jump)

murphaph · 07-09-2015 6:21pm

Berlin is an option for IT. We can't fill our empty developer positions either in our Munich or Berlin offices. Things like mechanical engineering will be much harder to find work in in Berlin compared to southern Germany though.

munchkin_utd · 09-09-2015 10:03am

murphaph wrote: »

Berlin is an option for IT. We can't fill our empty developer positions either in our Munich or Berlin offices. Things like mechanical engineering will be much harder to find work in in Berlin compared to southern Germany though.

same in Munich wrt IT.

but in General to give an idea of what the craic is,
the unemployment rate in Berlin is 11% (23 year low)
unemployment rate in Munich is 4% (so technically full employment)
unemployment rate in Munich suburbs and some neighbouring towns is a shade over 2% (which is a philosophical question as to what that actually could be termed)

heres a wee map with the figures which shows starkly where the jobs are, and arent (not a dissimilar situation to Ireland currently):

the problem though is housing. Kinda like Ireland currently, where the jobs are theres a chronic shortage of housing.

Also, theres a problem that despite insanely low unemployment, wages are unbelievably static since a decade seeing as companies are still in tight @rse recession busting mode.
The likes of certain high profile premium brand auto companies are cashing in record profits BUT anyone supplying to them or doing work for them is expected to continually offer cheaper and more flexible offers - and now with high penalties for any unexpected delays too

the only way to get well paid seems to be to move company/ find a company which rewards your specific niche skills.

brassringclub · 16-09-2015 1:30pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

why Berlin?

you do know that its not the centre of commerce and industry in Germany.
VERY much not so.

it was amusing, bordering on hilarious, that at the beginning of the economic crisis 1000s of Greek and Portugese landed to Berlin looking for jobs and being surprised that it wasnt really the most vibrant ecomomic place in the world and ended up homeless and needing to be helped by the locals.

Theres lots of ex pats woking in tourism, and 1000s of ex pats out there in a flat with daddy paying the rent for them to have a gap year, or be a hippy, or a painter, but the jobs for graduates in general are elsewhere.

(that said, there are supposedly jobs in IT and that, but you should research what you are up to before making the jump)

Hey, guys, thanks for all this. Graduated with a wishy washy degree in Digital Multimedia and have worked in high level customer service and training positions since. Berlin simply appealed to me as a city. Thanks for the subsequent posts too. I just fancy a change. I wouldnt be jumping without having something lined up, and daddy certainly wouldnt be paying the rent haha. I just wondered if there was a market there for someone with English as a first language, in IT/training/customer service.

munchkin_utd · 17-09-2015 2:17pm

brassringclub wrote: »

Hey, guys, thanks for all this. Graduated with a wishy washy degree in Digital Multimedia and have worked in high level customer service and training positions since. Berlin simply appealed to me as a city. Thanks for the subsequent posts too. I just fancy a change. I wouldnt be jumping without having something lined up, and daddy certainly wouldnt be paying the rent haha. I just wondered if there was a market there for someone with English as a first language, in IT/training/customer service.

the job centre for germany is here http://jobboerse.arbeitsagentur.de/ with over a million open positions
I searched for "englisch" and limited it to Berlin and came up with a heap of jobs, mostly secretarial.

there was at least one job for it support (1st Level IT Support - Tschechisch, Niederländisch, Englisch (Assistent/in - Informatik (technische Informatik))) in english from this crowd listed : http://www.gansspersonal.de/
I could post the link to the listing on the jobs site, but from bitter experience it doesnt work after 5minutes so not going to

justback83 · 13-04-2016 8:00pm

Bringing up this old(ish) thread again - apologies!

I am seriously considering the move...I have a second interview there next week and they head-hunted me so I'm hoping I've got a very good chance of landing it. It's a much better job than the one I'm currently in, with much better benefits. The company in around an hour from Ulm, which is where I'm considering living. I am genuinely shocked at the rental prices - they are a fraction of what I'm paying in Dublin. The company asked me if I had any worries about making the move, I asked them about my lack of German. They advised me that they will provide me with a 1-to-1 tutor, which has worked very well with their non-German speaking colleagues so far.

So I'm weighing up pros and cons and at the minute, Germany is way ahead. My partner will be moving with me, we don't own property, the company will ship everything over there for me. They will also provide us with a fully furnished apartment for 6 months - rent free

I'm kinda looking for any pitfalls so if any of you have any advice on renting there (after our first 6 months), what areas near Ulm/Heidenheim are nice to live in etc., I'd greatly appreciate it!

dissed doc · 14-04-2016 5:51pm

justback83 wrote: »

Bringing up this old(ish) thread again - apologies!

I am seriously considering the move...I have a second interview there next week and they head-hunted me so I'm hoping I've got a very good chance of landing it. It's a much better job than the one I'm currently in, with much better benefits. The company in around an hour from Ulm, which is where I'm considering living. I am genuinely shocked at the rental prices - they are a fraction of what I'm paying in Dublin. The company asked me if I had any worries about making the move, I asked them about my lack of German. They advised me that they will provide me with a 1-to-1 tutor, which has worked very well with their non-German speaking colleagues so far.

So I'm weighing up pros and cons and at the minute, Germany is way ahead. My partner will be moving with me, we don't own property, the company will ship everything over there for me. They will also provide us with a fully furnished apartment for 6 months - rent free

The reason it is cheaper is because Dublin is a decent capital city where people want to live, lots of nightlife and people and by compairosn, outside of Stuttgart in that region, Ulm is in the middle of nowhere. You are moving to the Germany-equivalent of Athlone, or not even. Rents are cheap in rural Ireland, just like rural Germany which is where you are going. It may suit you well, if you have had enough of city life and don't fancy the smaller Irish cities.

Most people in Ulm or region, would likely want to move to Munich or Stuttgart for the life. Likewise, the cost of living goes back up. You are not comparing like with like. Small town Germany is small town life, do not underestimate the change. Like I said, it might be a perfect fit for you. There are a lot of eays incentives to make the move. How many incentives do you need to convince someone to move to Dublin or Amsterdam?

You would have a decent "country" lifestyle though.

justback83 · 14-04-2016 10:29pm

dissed doc wrote: »

The reason it is cheaper is because Dublin is a decent capital city where people want to live, lots of nightlife and people and by compairosn, outside of Stuttgart in that region, Ulm is in the middle of nowhere. You are moving to the Germany-equivalent of Athlone, or not even. Rents are cheap in rural Ireland, just like rural Germany which is where you are going. It may suit you well, if you have had enough of city life and don't fancy the smaller Irish cities.

Most people in Ulm or region, would likely want to move to Munich or Stuttgart for the life. Likewise, the cost of living goes back up. You are not comparing like with like. Small town Germany is small town life, do not underestimate the change. Like I said, it might be a perfect fit for you. There are a lot of eays incentives to make the move. How many incentives do you need to convince someone to move to Dublin or Amsterdam?

You would have a decent "country" lifestyle though.

Thanks, but I'm not sure if Ulm is comparable to Athlone!! This gave me a good laugh though

jester77 · 15-04-2016 12:34pm

Well, he is right about rental prices. If you were to move to Munich, Hamburg or Frankfurt then Dublin prices would very quickly look very reasonable.

One thing to look out for is health insurance for your girlfriend. If she is not working and living with you, then most likely you will have to pay her costs if you are deemed to be earning over a certain threshold.

murphaph · 15-04-2016 4:29pm

jester77 wrote: »

Well, he is right about rental prices. If you were to move to Munich, Hamburg or Frankfurt then Dublin prices would very quickly look very reasonable.

One thing to look out for is health insurance for your girlfriend. If she is not working and living with you, then most likely you will have to pay her costs if you are deemed to be earning over a certain threshold.

Yeah health insurance is compulsory here. You have to have Bafin approved insurance to remain. The state pays this for residents who lose their jobs but it doesn't pay it for new arrivals.

shakin · 17-04-2016 2:33am

I have applied for a job in Frankfurt, its an internal transfer hoping to be getting 40-45K per annul. Our work is done through English so no immediate issues there.

Would that be a comfortable salary to save and to live in Frankfurt after tax?

jester77 · 17-04-2016 10:38am

shakin wrote: »

I have applied for a job in Frankfurt, its an internal transfer hoping to be getting 40-45K per annul. Our work is done through English so no immediate issues there.

Would that be a comfortable salary to save and to live in Frankfurt after tax?

If you are single it would be comfortable, otherwise it will be tight. Also depends on what sort of accommodation you sort yourself out with. Frankfurt is not cheap, so accommodation could eat up a large part of your salary. You should try and get your company to cover your monthly transport ticket, that would be a big saving. Also get them to throw in German lessons, but they are probably doing that already. Even if work is in English, casual conversations will be in German so it would help to better integrate.

You won't earn enough to avail of private health insurance, there would be savings to made there if you could push for another 5-10k salary. When you are registering, make sure not to put yourself down as any of the main religions or you will be paying around 8% of your taxable income for that privilege.

As a single person not paying church tax you would be bringing home between 2085 and 2290. You can calculate here. It's well above the average German wage and you can have a decent lifestyle around Frankfurt with that.

shakin · 18-04-2016 2:15am

jester77 wrote: »

If you are single it would be comfortable, otherwise it will be tight. Also depends on what sort of accommodation you sort yourself out with. Frankfurt is not cheap, so accommodation could eat up a large part of your salary. You should try and get your company to cover your monthly transport ticket, that would be a big saving. Also get them to throw in German lessons, but they are probably doing that already. Even if work is in English, casual conversations will be in German so it would help to better integrate.

You won't earn enough to avail of private health insurance, there would be savings to made there if you could push for another 5-10k salary. When you are registering, make sure not to put yourself down as any of the main religions or you will be paying around 8% of your taxable income for that privilege.

As a single person not paying church tax you would be bringing home between 2085 and 2290. You can calculate here. It's well above the average German wage and you can have a decent lifestyle around Frankfurt with that.

Thanks for that its a great help. I should have health insurance paid for by the employer, I assume there will be some BIK on that.

German lessons and transport costs aren't covered for anyone AFAIK, but I'd have no problem in paying for German lessons for myself, if I move there I definitely want to learn the language

I've been looking at accommodation, my current rent is really quiet cheap in Dublin, im just lucky through circumstances. But looking online the last few days its been tricky. Its a lot trickier than looking on daft! I would rather rent a room in a house/apt share, with 2-3 others as I have always done in Dublin. But I wouldn't like to spend more than €600 p/m on rent. Maybe that's not realistic.

jester77 · 18-04-2016 8:16am

shakin wrote: »

Thanks for that its a great help. I should have health insurance paid for by the employer, I assume there will be some BIK on that.

German lessons and transport costs aren't covered for anyone AFAIK, but I'd have no problem in paying for German lessons for myself, if I move there I definitely want to learn the language

I've been looking at accommodation, my current rent is really quiet cheap in Dublin, im just lucky through circumstances. But looking online the last few days its been tricky. Its a lot trickier than looking on daft! I would rather rent a room in a house/apt share, with 2-3 others as I have always done in Dublin. But I wouldn't like to spend more than €600 p/m on rent. Maybe that's not realistic.

Health insurance is mandatory here, public insurance is over 15% of your salary. If you are working for a company then they have to cover roughly half of this. So you will be paying 7.5-8% of your salary towards it. Private insurance is a fixed amount and is usually cheaper than public with better care once you earn 45k+, but there are also caveat's.

Sharing a room is not so common here, I don't know of any professionals that share, so don't know much about that side of rental, look for WGs when looking for room shares. But you should be able to get an ok apartment around Frankfurt for 600 cold. http://www.immobilienscout24.de would be the main rental site.

The best way of finding a place is through contacts. Use your company's intranet to find a place. There are always people moving.

justback83 · 22-04-2016 12:10am

So the move is now definite! I got the offer today!!! Have a lot to research now...is it difficult to lease a car when moving there initially?

shakin · 22-04-2016 1:53am

justback83 wrote: »

So the move is now definite! I got the offer today!!! Have a lot to research now...is it difficult to lease a car when moving there initially?

Congrats! - Best of luck with the move

justback83 · 22-04-2016 12:05pm

So apparently my company will cover pension insurance, is this normal?? Is there anything I should be looking out for in the contract?

Moving to Germany?

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