Coming out naturally?

eaglach · 02-11-2015 11:20pm #1

Been a while since I've posted here, but I was hoping you could give me some advice.

I have been out to pretty much all my friends for a while now. Nearly every time I came out to a friend it was me being very drunk and just blurting it out. I can't say I am happy about how I did it, but it was effective!

Now, after some time on, I've matured a bit and am very much accepting of being gay and have no issues with it. The problem is that there are a few more people to tell, mainly my family.

I don't want to do it like I've done it before where I've had too much to drink and then say it. I actually don't think that'd ever happen anyways because I don't drink heavily with any of my family members.

I also don't want to make a huge deal about it and would like to do it naturally. The problem is that I can't find a natural opportunity to say it! These days I never get asked about relationships because they're tired of me giving a non-response, so that won't work. If I bring it up out of the blue it would just feel odd and uncomfortable.

I was thinking of sending them a text message, or getting someone else to tell them. Would that be okay or is that a bit unfair not telling them in person? What is the best way of coming out to family/friends without it being awkward and unnatural? I feel like I'm leaving it on the long finger and it'll never happen unless I'm explicitly asked!

Annasopra · 02-11-2015 11:31pm

A natural way would be - "Oh I'm going on a date to the george next week" or "oh my boyfriend says xyz"

eaglach · 02-11-2015 11:41pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A natural way would be - "Oh I'm going on a date to the george next week" or "oh my boyfriend says xyz"

I think saying that I was dating a man/have a boyfriend would be a step beyond what I want to say! I think coming out would be the first milestone!

newacc2015 · 02-11-2015 11:47pm

eaglach wrote: »

I think saying that I was dating a man/have a boyfriend would be a step beyond what I want to say! I think coming out would be the first milestone!

IMO I dont see how is its still relevant to "inform" people you are Gay in 2015. It doesn't define you as person and there isnt really a stigma with it anymore. TBH it seems ridiculous you have to tell someone you like a same sex.

I dont go around telling everyone Im gay. I dont think its necessary, we dont live in Russia where we have to inform people of it. If someone asks me if I have a Girlfriends. Ill be like no, but Im seeing a great guy at the moment.

eaglach · 02-11-2015 11:55pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

IMO I dont see how is its still relevant to "inform" people you are Gay in 2015. It doesn't define you as person and there isnt really a stigma with it anymore. TBH it seems ridiculous you have to tell someone you like a same sex.

I dont go around telling everyone Im gay. I dont think its necessary, we dont live in Russia where we have to inform people of it. If someone asks me if I have a Girlfriends. Ill be like no, but Im seeing a great guy at the moment.

I understand what you're saying but I still don't feel comfortable not telling them. They are people who are close to me and I am pretty much hiding something from them that is pretty relevant.

There are times where I've been on dates but would just tell my family that I was just out with a friend. Or even with housemates, if I wanted to bring my boyfriend over I'd feel a bit stupid having him turn up and just suddenly tell them I'm gay.

Maybe I'm a bit odd, I don't know!

Ten of Swords · 03-11-2015 12:02am

Is there a family member you are particularly close to, such as a sibling, who you would feel comfortable telling first?

eaglach · 03-11-2015 12:17am

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Is there a family member you are particularly close to, such as a sibling, who you would feel comfortable telling first?

I have already told one family member, but I was also drunk at the time and we haven't really spoken about it since. He had no problem with me being gay, I just think he, and probably me to some extent, are being blokish and just don't bring it up!

lottpaul · 03-11-2015 12:24am

Are you talking about coming out to family? friends? work colleagues? or the whole lot all together?

Family - esp parents - might not be ones for the casual coming out but for others it can be as simple as e.g. a comment on a news item/film/tv programme etc.
As I think about it though, most people probably have never given any thought as to who you fancy, so the subject may never arise.
Your friends and family who have thought about it may have come to their own (unspoken) conclusions anyway and should be easier.
Parents are never easy but as a rule they love their children unconditionally, they worry about them, fear what the future may hold for them etc so, again, a casual reference to the fact that you'd pay big money for a night with the Irish rugby team might not be the best way to go

Best of luck with it all - and if you find a good method let us know. Part of being LGBT is that to an extent we spend our whole lives coming out to new people and situations!

baby and crumble · 03-11-2015 9:30am

I know where you're coming from OP. An "announcement" can make it into a bigger deal than it is, but at the same time your family deserves to know, because it's part of who you are.

Rather than a text or someone else telling them, perhaps you could write them a letter? A physical one. You can take your time getting it right, and then give it to them. They can read and digest it in their own time. It's less blunt than a text, and less of a shock than someone else telling them.

jobbridge4life · 03-11-2015 3:01pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

IMO I dont see how is its still relevant to "inform" people you are Gay in 2015. It doesn't define you as person and there isnt really a stigma with it anymore. TBH it seems ridiculous you have to tell someone you like a same sex.

I dont go around telling everyone Im gay. I dont think its necessary, we dont live in Russia where we have to inform people of it. If someone asks me if I have a Girlfriends. Ill be like no, but Im seeing a great guy at the moment.

Sighburger. How enlightened of you, may we all one day be as progressive.:rolleyes:

Not everyone feels the same, and as for your comments regarding stigma unless you know Eaglach's exact circumstance you can't possibly know what you are talking about.

Eaglach isn't talking about telling 'everyone' he is gay like he is planning on walking around in sequins yelling 'yassss mamm' at everyone he meets like a one man pride parade. He is talking about telling his family, those closest to him something deeply personal that he has struggled with. Being gay may not define a person, for many people though (including me) it does touch off a lot of things about them and feeling that you have to hide or can't speak openly and freely with those you love about this important element of your personality is incredibly frustrating and painful. Understanding that is the least I thought we could expect from other gay people.

Ps. I don't know where you are getting your information on Russia but you might want to do some fact checking.

jobbridge4life · 03-11-2015 3:22pm

eaglach wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but I still don't feel comfortable not telling them. They are people who are close to me and I am pretty much hiding something from them that is pretty relevant.

There are times where I've been on dates but would just tell my family that I was just out with a friend. Or even with housemates, if I wanted to bring my boyfriend over I'd feel a bit stupid having him turn up and just suddenly tell them I'm gay.

Maybe I'm a bit odd, I don't know!

You are not at all.

Definitely avoid the drinking thing. My advice would be to pick the people in your family who you are closest with and who may have an idea already. During a normal conversation you can steer the topic towards a suitable area and then be honest and frank with them. It will get easier each time. After you have spoken with those you want to tell personally you can just let people know that it is okay to gossip and let them do the work for you!

If there are people you just can't see yourself having a chat with then I'd go for a letter over a text message but maybe I'm old school.

Edit to say best of luck and it won't be as stressful as you are imaging it!

Annasopra · 03-11-2015 6:56pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

IMO I dont see how is its still relevant to "inform" people you are Gay in 2015. It doesn't define you as person and there isnt really a stigma with it anymore. TBH it seems ridiculous you have to tell someone you like a same sex.

I dont go around telling everyone Im gay. I dont think its necessary, we dont live in Russia where we have to inform people of it. If someone asks me if I have a Girlfriends. Ill be like no, but Im seeing a great guy at the moment.

To be honest that's fair enough that it's your opinion but I can't really agree with it.

1 Informing people that you are gay or lesbian or bi or trans does not mean you are defining yourself as only gay or LBT
2 I don't think anyone mentioned a stigma at all but you know what - not everyone is fully accpeting when their friend/family member/colleague comes out - of course most people but some still may find it difficult
3 The OP isn't talking about telling everyone he is talking about telling close friends/family - I don't see any issue with this
4 I don't get the Russia reference at all.

Grey Wind · 03-11-2015 10:12pm

Also, if you've known someone for a long time and never mentioned it then they more than likely assume your straight. Randomly coming out offhandedly would be kind of weird, even if you knew the reaction would be good.

wakka12 · 05-11-2015 9:41am

I don't think you 'need' to tell them, I think gay people are beyond having to come out. Theres no need to anymore.. they already probably strongly suspect due to your lack of female relationships anyway.

Annasopra · 05-11-2015 10:00am

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't think you 'need' to tell them, I think gay people are beyond having to come out. Theres no need to anymore.. they already probably strongly suspect due to your lack of female relationships anyway.

SOME lgbt people don't necessarily need to come out in a formal manner. Others do. It's impossible to generalise like this and say all gay people are beyond having to come out.

Yes we live in Post referendum Ireland but that doesn't necessarily mean that every lgbt person now lives in a comfirtable environment where all of their friends and family automatically know and understand sexual orientation/gender identity.

Yes the idea of coming out is now changing and becoming irrelevant to some but please don't assume it's irrelevant to all.

jobbridge4life · 05-11-2015 3:32pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't think you 'need' to tell them, I think gay people are beyond having to come out. Theres no need to anymore.. they already probably strongly suspect due to your lack of female relationships anyway.

Wakka12 'gay people' are not monolithic uniform group. As Joey already stated some are in more difficult circumstances than others.

Also since when was coming out just about other people? Coming out for some gays this gay included was also about me feeling comfortable with my identity it was about being able to proudly say yeah I'm gay. In a world where straight people will more than likely always be the overwhelming majority being gay will always be somewhat 'different'. People will probably always assume that the person they meet or know is straight by default.

newacc2015 · 06-11-2015 1:24pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Sighburger. How enlightened of you, may we all one day be as progressive.:rolleyes:

Not everyone feels the same, and as for your comments regarding stigma unless you know Eaglach's exact circumstance you can't possibly know what you are talking about.

Eaglach isn't talking about telling 'everyone' he is gay like he is planning on walking around in sequins yelling 'yassss mamm' at everyone he meets like a one man pride parade. He is talking about telling his family, those closest to him something deeply personal that he has struggled with. Being gay may not define a person, for many people though (including me) it does touch off a lot of things about them and feeling that you have to hide or can't speak openly and freely with those you love about this important element of your personality is incredibly frustrating and painful. Understanding that is the least I thought we could expect from other gay people.

Ps. I don't know where you are getting your information on Russia but you might want to do some fact checking.

Maybe its a cultural thing. I have noticed Dubliners dont really feel the "need" to tell others they are gay. I have plenty of my friends from Dublin who dont tell you they are gay. It just comes up. As its really an issue for most Dubliners. They dont really feel how its relevant to tell you they are gay. Maybe its just because Dublin is more liberal, that its like when you live in San Francisco. You dont have to tell people you are gay,as the just dont care.

Where as my friends from the country, who see coming out as a thing to do still. Like my friends friend who is from the country, was telling family member at this birthday that he was gay. I have never heard of my Dublin friends do anything like that

Maybe its just because my friends and social circle/university are so liberal. Its pretty much always been a non-issue for me and pretty much all of my friends. Like of my friends in my college course is gay and is best friends/lives with all the GAA/Rugby heads. They dont care he is gay.Maybe Im just living in a liberal bubble.

Ten of Swords · 06-11-2015 9:25pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I think gay people are beyond having to come out. Theres no need to anymore.

wakka12 the reply I contemplated writing to this would probably get me carded, it has touched a raw nerve, so let me just say that your comment is ill considered, a foolish generalization and in no way helpful to the op who has specifically asked how he should come out, not if he should.

jobbridge4life · 06-11-2015 9:37pm

Ten of Swords wrote: »

wakka12 the reply I contemplated writing to this would probably get me carded, it has touched a raw nerve, so let me just say that your comment is ill considered, a foolish generalization and in no way helpful to the op who has specifically asked how he should come out, not if he should.

At the risk of sounding like a relic... (and notwithstanding that I strongly disagreed with Wakka's point)

As far as I know Wakka is young. I'm guessing in the range of 18 to 23. When I was that age I believed and was insanely strident about any number of crazy beliefs. Its part of growing up well that you make statements like this and then get educated.

And Wakka if your reading this I am sorry for the condescending tone. If its any consolation at all one day you will probably be able to condescend to others in equally what is hopefully a helpful way.

Leonard Hofstadter · 07-11-2015 1:18am

Don't forget that for some of us, the marriage referendum has afforded us the opportunity to come out, because until that point we were still pretending we were 'straight' and fancied members of the opposite sex. For some of us, me included, coming out is about accepting it ourselves and just telling others who we are. It's a personal thing, I only tell people I know well, I don't see the point in putting in the Irish Times. I don't make a big song and dance about it, if the topic of conversation veers in that direction then I will say it (depending on the company I'm keeping), otherwise I don't. If the OP wants to come out then who I am, or anyone else to stop him.

Annasopra · 07-11-2015 9:02am

Wakka12/Newacc2015 have you never come out to close friends or family?

Banbha32 · 07-11-2015 4:36pm

Hey eaglach

Its great you were able to come out to some friends already and just have one more group to come out to. I have an almost similar situation where im out to all friends and family but not yet in work. So im out in Ireland but not in England :P i will do soon hopefully but i dont know these people as long and as others have said its not everyones business, just people who YOU feel you'd like to know

Regards coming out naturally, in the end i did it rather quickly after all these years of indecisiveness and fear. I live in london now so i decided on a weekend to come out, flew home and because of time restraints but also not being arsed repeating myself to everyone i selected a few family members to help me out. I told my parents and siblings myself but then chose a cousin on my dads side and my nan on my mums side to help with the dirty work. And after a day my nan told me she had rung her 10 children already so it was great and i didnt have to say it directly to people one by one. And i have to say everyone took it very well, people you are closest with and even those less so.

Do you feel you have someone on either side of your family who could help in a similar way? Whether a sibling or cousin or aunt or uncle who you feel could lighten the burden off you? I think people really understand how hard it can be for someone to come out and takes a huge amount of courage and are willing to help. It is daunting thinking of all the people you know and more than wanting to come out to them you just want them to find out and forget about it so its done

As captainspeed has said, the marriage referendum has afforded a lot more people to come out and it personally helped me. I came out only two months ago and would probably still be hiding in a cave if it wasnt for it. I think it also opened up more people to think about the lgbt community and speaking about it so people are a lot more informed and supportive nowadays and im sure your family will too. We all have family members who we think wont take it well or fear our own family is the most backwards. But its often not the case and we are often our own worst enemy and can sometimes be more hurtful to ourselves than anything anyone else will say.

Congrats on coming out so far, its a huge personal achievement for both your mind and your confidence and good luck with your journey you're nearly there!

newacc2015 · 07-11-2015 8:01pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Wakka12/Newacc2015 have you never come out to close friends or family?

Yes of course I have, when I was like 17. It was a non-issue for everyone. If no one has an issue with it anymore. Why is still a thing?

IMO coming out was something that started in the 1970/1980s to show your friends, family, co-workers that Gay people were "normal". Particularly around the gay rights movements in the US. People felt they had to come out to show people that gay people werent that different to straight people.

In 2015 there isnt really issue anymore. Ireland and the Western World is liberal. Why is it still seen as necessary to 'come out'? When 99.5% of people in my experience dont give a **** whether you are gay or not. To me its so contrived. Its making an issue out of a non-issue. Like telling some who assumes you are catholic that you are actually CoI or Methodist. No one really cares about minor things like this anymore.

Grey Wind · 07-11-2015 10:48pm

Your experiences are not universal. Homophobia is still a very real problem and just because it was a non-issue for you doesn't mean that it's going to be that way for everyone. Honestly, the fact that you can even say that is laughably ignorant considering the amount of cases of homophobic attacks and homeless gay youth. Stop being so pretentious and listen to what people who actually have had these experiences are telling you.

newacc2015 · 07-11-2015 10:54pm

Grey Wind wrote: »

Your experiences are not universal. Homophobia is still a very real problem and just because it was a non-issue for you doesn't mean that it's going to be that way for everyone. Honestly, the fact that you can even say that is laughably ignorant considering the amount of cases of homophobic attacks and homeless gay youth. Stop being so pretentious and listen to what people who actually have had these experiences are telling you.

We live a country of 4.5 Million people. There is very few homophobic attacks for the size of the country. We live in an incredible tolerant country. Yes we have isolated cases, but they are few and far between.

Im just giving my experience as a young person living in Dublin. Growing gay in Ireland 20 years ago is very different to growing up Gay now.

Grey Wind · 07-11-2015 11:08pm

Just because things are better now doesn't mean that coming out is a non issue or that homophobia is reduced to "isolated cases". As someone who actually has faced struggles with coming out I find it really offensive that you're practically looking down on people in different situations than you for making it a "big deal". Like who tf are you to pretentiously tell people that coming out is contrived? Congrats on being surrounded by open minded liberals but not everyone has that privilege (and Dublin is very different to the rest of the country lmao).

Annasopra · 08-11-2015 10:45am

newacc2015 wrote: »

Yes of course I have, when I was like 17. It was a non-issue for everyone. If no one has an issue with it anymore. Why is still a thing?

IMO coming out was something that started in the 1970/1980s to show your friends, family, co-workers that Gay people were "normal". Particularly around the gay rights movements in the US. People felt they had to come out to show people that gay people werent that different to straight people.

In 2015 there isnt really issue anymore. Ireland and the Western World is liberal. Why is it still seen as necessary to 'come out'? When 99.5% of people in my experience dont give a **** whether you are gay or not. To me its so contrived. Its making an issue out of a non-issue. Like telling some who assumes you are catholic that you are actually CoI or Methodist. No one really cares about minor things like this anymore.

I don't get this at all.

You came out but you are saying noone else should. It might be a minor thing for you. For many of us it's not and actually it's insulting to suggest your experiences are universal.

Also I have many friends who experienced a lot of homophobic abuse during the referendum campaign. The idea that Dublin is universally a liberal haven of tolerance and acceptance is frankly absurd. For sure it is very liberal and tolerant but that does not mean as you appear to suggest there is nohomophobia in Dublin.

I'm glad your experiences are very positive but they are not universal and please do not assume they are.

mattP · 08-11-2015 10:54am

So you would be wholly comfortable walking around Dublin for a day holding a guys hand, let alone anything more?

Tasden · 08-11-2015 11:08am

I would have a letter prepared and maybe say casually to them that you'd like to talk to them about something that you suspect they already know (if you do). They might ask you then and there if its about you being gay. If they don't and you feel awkward/unnatural telling them, say that you have put it all in a letter for them and you hope they don't mind that it was easier for you this way but you are willing to talk about it once they have digested the letter.
As you say, it has never really come up as such and you haven't actively tried to hide it, so they may have an incling and are just waiting until you're ready to address it. It might go very casually once you begin the conversation.
Good luck!

JTL · 08-11-2015 5:02pm

Just started to do it - early 30's - feels great. Wish I did it years ago..

wakka12 · 08-11-2015 5:04pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Wakka12/Newacc2015 have you never come out to close friends or family?

Came out to all close friends and family, I don't think it was necessary personally. It didnt change anything, as far as I can tell, Im sure people secretly think differently of me..but yeah overall I don't think the stress and anxiety and build up to finally telling people was worth it at all.

newacc2015 · 08-11-2015 7:31pm

mattP wrote: »

So you would be wholly comfortable walking around Dublin for a day holding a guys hand, let alone anything more?

Yes. I have zero issue with hold hands with guys. I have done it countless times with my friends/guys I have dated in anywhere from the northside to stephens green to oxegen. Yes I have gotten funny looks. But IMO Irish people dont like PDA of any form regardless of if its gay or straight. I have made out with plenty of friends/guys I was dating in normal everyday bars in Dublin. Likewise I have no issues with it.

My attitude is there is always douche bags in life. I have had plenty of people slag me/said things that I "speak too proper". Its just ignorance. I dont sweat it. Likewise if anyone was a issue about me being gay. I literally couldnt care less. People are ignorant in general. I dont let it affect me. There is far more important things in my life to worry about, than what some passer-by I will never see again has to say about me

Yes there is homophobia/ignorance in Dublin. But if you are walking pass a few thousand people per hour. Someone might say something ignorant. I dont think that single person is a reflection of Irish Society as a whole. Likewise if someone said an ignorant comment to an immigrant. I dont think everyone would say Ireland is a nation of racists.

Annasopra · 08-11-2015 9:09pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Came out to all close friends and family, I don't think it was necessary personally.

Why did you do it if it wasnt necessary?

wakka12 · 08-11-2015 9:34pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Why did you do it if it wasnt necessary?

Tired of being asked which girls I liked and family and friends asking if I was seeing any girls at the moment etc

JTL · 08-11-2015 9:37pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Tired of being asked which girls I liked and family and friends asking if I was seeing any girls at the moment etc

Know that feeling!

Annasopra · 08-11-2015 9:41pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Tired of being asked which girls I liked and family and friends asking if I was seeing any girls at the moment etc

So actually then it was necessary!

mattP · 08-11-2015 10:41pm

wakka12 wrote:

Tired of being asked which girls I liked and family and friends asking if I was seeing any girls at the moment etc

Thats the whole point of coming out, everyone just presumes people are straight.

wakka12 · 09-11-2015 12:11am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So actually then it was necessary!

Hardly. It was a little annoying and uncomfortable, a more minor inconvenience in my life. It was not worth all the stress and anxiety in my opinion for what good came of it. Im glad Im out now that its done but it doesn't need the big build up that a lot of people put into it

Annasopra · 09-11-2015 12:54am

wakka12 wrote: »

Hardly. It was a little annoying and uncomfortable, a more minor inconvenience in my life. It was not worth all the stress and anxiety in my opinion for what good came of it. Im glad Im out now that its done but it doesn't need the big build up that a lot of people put into it

I didnt the say the stress and anxiety and all of your feelings associated with it were necessary. I said coming out was necessary as a communications tool because your friends and family were constantly making assumptions that you were straight and communicating this assumption to you. I mean what other way would you deal with their assumptions and misunderstandings about you?

Again you assume that your coming out experience is the same as most other peoples. It's really not. Everyone has differing experiences.

Coming out naturally?

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